MR AT-AT vs. ILM AT-AT...differences?

Discussion in 'Studio Scale Models' started by stonky, Nov 11, 2011.

  1. stonky

    stonky Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Hey all,

    I was wondering what the major differences are between the MR AT-AT and the ILM AT-ATs. I can see some (especially given that no two ILM AT-ATs are exactly the same) but I was wondering if anyone has characterized the differences before in a more detailed way.

    stonky
     
  2. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    I think as it stands, NONE of the detailing, (ie donor parts) are grown and not real kit donors for starters, this is most apparent on the underside of the body, which is a bit of a cop out IMO.
    Jason and Steve may know MUCH more on this though bud!

    lee
     
  3. stonky

    stonky Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Good to know!
     
  4. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    Yeah, it all came out wrong TBH, the parts on the model are i think grown, NOT donor parts lol.
    Cant recall why though, was it a licencing issue with the kit manufacturers, who knows.

    lee
     
  5. moffeaton

    moffeaton Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Nope! It was a case of the Chinese being crazy, and HAND PATTERNING kit parts that MR had SENT!!!

    No one had any idea why they decided to remake pieces... but that's what happened, according to what I remember Steve telling me. I'll defer to him of course.
     
  6. STEVE THE SWEDE

    STEVE THE SWEDE Sr Member

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    A new AT-AT thread, SWEET! I don't remember all the differences on the top of my head but the MR AT-AT came out during the same period a lot of us was working on the AT-ATRON. I had a lot of cash (not to mention TIME) invested in the AT-ATRON. During pre production the MR piece promised to deliver something incredible, a licensed studio replica made with all the correct donor parts! I was one of the those who quit the AT-ATRON project and jumped right on it... Well, we all know now how good those donor parts were... IMO that was a biggie. The proportions look right to me but the donor parts looks like barf! I also seem to remember that there were some issues with the "Butt" piece. My MR walker are in storage and it was a long time since I saw it but if you want to take a trip down memory lane I suggest this thread! Sadly a lot of pics are gone.:(

    http://www.therpf.com/f10/ref-pics-49/

    Cheers,

    Steve.
     
  7. swpropmaker

    swpropmaker Sr Member

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    My absolute favorite vehicle from ALL the movies. I remember the call from some guy Barry asking about what we knew about the AT-AT. Then MR announced the AT-AT... MR did an awesome job for the average collector. What came of the MR release? Ton's of Reference!!! Myself...John C and Dan Loes have tackled the kit ID's and checked dimentions against the MR release. Its pretty darn close.

    We have this box that has been shipped back and forth between John and I for about 6 years.. a box that contains some patterns all the kit parts for the Studio Scale AT-AT... we were on and off on building it..

    After watching ESB blu-ray on the 55" a couple weeks ago I talked with John and it was going to be our next project.. all the bells and whistles.. full alluminum armeture as the hero models... following those crazy bastards lead who did the ESB chicken walker! You know who you are!

    But trying to get backlog satisified and improve the Hero TIE Fighter we have decided this...

    Once we finish the new TIE wing star patterns (Edlund's TIE measurments) and Studio Scale Vader's TIE... we will start a hero AT-AT build thread here....

    ILM Studio Scale AT-AT needs to be built with real kit parts! Ive reached out to Mike Salzo also and he has offered help.. Between all of us I think it could turn out pretty amazing.

    I do love the AT-AT.... I remember the first time I saw it on screen... * thats cool!

    If ya want to help and be involved in the build shoot me a pm/email we'll solidify the build group and tackle this beast like gangbusters!

    Until then... gotta get backlog destroyed.... i'm back to the shop...

    Steve
     
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  8. jedimaster

    jedimaster Sr Member

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    This IS the At-At you were looking for...... (waves hand in own face)
     
  9. moffeaton

    moffeaton Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I'm IN!!!!!

    You still have that spare MR hull I sent?
     
  10. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    Its one model i kinda pine for now, aint many, but the ATAT is one that would really kick my TESB/Hoth collecting. The ONLY way to do it is a stop mo armature.

    lee
     
  11. eagle1

    eagle1 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I know a good machinist.:lol
     
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  12. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    Yeah yeah.......:lol.

    lee
     
  13. STEVE THE SWEDE

    STEVE THE SWEDE Sr Member

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    Wow Steve, this sounds crazy cool! I sooooo wish I could join in. Sadly all my AT-AT funds are locked in the MR piece. I'm gonna have to settle for a butchered MR, cortected with the proper donors. It'll be a kick * piece but still light years away from what you're gonna achive! Good luck, I'll follow you guys with envy!

    Cheers,
    Steve
     
  14. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    Just spitballing, but, couldnt you guys combine what you have regarding the MR body head blah blah, we all chip in on donors finalise ID and armature, and make it a "group" thing?
    As i said, just spitballing, but seems like a good opportunity to reignite the group project studio scale, which (apart from those nutters lol) on the the 5 foot porkburger.......seems to be a thing of the past.

    lee
     
  15. jedimaster

    jedimaster Sr Member

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    It's a hamburger I'll have you know......
     
  16. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    Simon, my bad buddy....but your still all NUT'S......well, maybe just bloomin' brave i guess :).

    lee
     
  17. jedimaster

    jedimaster Sr Member

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    Na you were right the first time mate. f...ing looney!!
     
  18. Nwerke

    Nwerke Master Member

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    And also MISSING IN ACTION. :p :p

    Poor jaybible showed up and cut glass matt and everything.
     
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  19. swpropmaker

    swpropmaker Sr Member

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    Well like everything... there will have to be two versions... Hero Crazy nutjob version metal ect and then normal mostly resin kit version... As far as donors parts go.. most of that leg work is done so its just a matter of someone taking the visible reference of the armeture and other metal parts and render it into the computer suitable for CNC milling purposes.... so I was thinking M Reis for that part... does any one else know a computer stud if Mike R says no? I know Mike can output files to a machinist for the making of the parts.. The hero version is going to be stupid expensive... however the kit version is going to be reasonalbe.. I'll try to keep it in $750 - $800 range it is through the sale of the kit a majority of the start up and intial cost can be recouped... The key is to get all versions to all that want them.... I'll provide the majority of the kits parts that we already have to John C and he will be pattern maker.. I'll mold and cast the majority of whats needed and produce and distubute the proposed AT-AT kit... Plant on parts for the heros and the entire kit for those that deem the uber metal one is to expensive... I'm sure Salzo can help as well so were covered there...

    I'll contact Mike Reis and see what it will cost to have the CAD drawings made... Using the visible reference from a MR ATAT and reference pics I have.

    So Ralphee I guess we should start a no shoot AT-AT build thread and try to finish IDing whats left..... I'll get back to you and let you know what Mike R says... were gonna need a * good machinist... if not CNC ready... Mike R would have to make scaled ortho drawings to be hand milled... not sure the cost difference.....

    So when I said we were already looking at this... it was no joke... need to do tons of discussion on the design of the actual stop motion and spring set up for each leg.... how far do we go? We go ILM exact we could be looking 5 to 10 k per AT-AT armeture.... but is there any other way?

    [​IMG]

    Does someone have the ATAT parts layout picture from the chronicals they can up load?
    Steve
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2011
  20. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    Steve i hear you on the price if it were to follow the ILM Hero like for like.

    The other guys a while looked into it, but it didnt really happen, one thing that was the killer, the working thigh pistons, they would really add tons to armature cost, so intricate, Swiss watch like.

    I still think a thread needs to be started here in time, and, just brain farting....why not, instead of resin, offer an acrylic stop mo armature, with the ATAT's design, it would work better than say, an ATST, and, be more affordable to many, probably including me.

    This way, its the same model, the builder will be doing the same process, just with a cheaper armature alternative, but again, brain farting, but i think its a good idea.

    lee
     
  21. MonsieurTox

    MonsieurTox Master Member

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    It's still on progress Lee :) I should machine the first parts of the armature by the beginning of 2012 with my cnc, i'm waiting to love to my new house !
    Anyway cant wait to see what you'll achieve guys, if it's mastered by John C, it'll be a killer !!
     
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  22. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    I thought it had died Julien, my apologies, great to hear your still chasing it though bud, i think if you apply half of what you did on the ISD, you'll have an amazing prop at the end, is this your first foray into CNC work, be great to see how you go along the way.

    lee
     
  23. MonsieurTox

    MonsieurTox Master Member

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    No worries :) It was on hold for several because of the armature then I thought it would be cheaper to buy a CNC ! Not sure if I'm right though... :lol

    I refined the armature drawings and I think they're as close as they can, still not sure about the piston thingie... well I'll probably go with my one design... My biggest concern is too get the hull looking right, I've built 4 hulls but was not happy with any of them, hopefully the fifth will be the good one ! Several subassemblies masters are done by now. I think I'll start by machining a plexy armature to see how it turns, unfortunatly there are 4 parts I won't be able to machine myself (they need to be turned on a lathe).
     
  24. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    What machine did you buy Julien, if you dont mind my asking, sounds like one hell of a venture!
    I think it would eventually pay for it self though, with the work you do, itll prove invaluable?

    Yeah ATAT body, what a pig, and ive not even taken a stab at it, just looks horrible to build, and thats not even getting to that head lol.

    lee
     
  25. MonsieurTox

    MonsieurTox Master Member

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    I bought the one AJQuick was offering here in the JY some month ago !
    I think it's worth it and I guess I'll find plenty of use for it, not only for the AT-AT but maybe for other SS models ? (armatures etc ?) I know I will never machine complex parts, but for the easiest, it will save some time for sure.

    Yeah finally the MR ATAT body is very close in size (with only a few proportion issues, mainly the back) but they did it symetrical and that affects the look of it, really hard to nail... On the other hand the MR head is close to perfect ! But hard to build even with the MR in hand as reference.
     
  26. swpropmaker

    swpropmaker Sr Member

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    After reading the last posts and talking with Mike salzo.. we will press forward with the "kit" version.. no sense in reinventing the wheel as far as armeture goes.. looks like thats been tackled....

    Mike is going to do the legs and John C will do the head and body. I'll trust those guys to nail the shape and build based upon kit part and photo reference.... we will design it so it can be retro fitted on a armeture that may become available in the future..

    Julien...would love to see the CNC set you you have... also interested in the design you have in mind for the legs, feet and supporting structures for the AT-AT...

    Steve
     
  27. MonsieurTox

    MonsieurTox Master Member

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    Steven you still can offer the ATAT armature, I will just make 2 or 3 sets for friends and myself but I'll never offer it, there are way more than 100 machined parts for one armature and that's a lot of time.

    The armature parts (legs, support etc) are copied from the original so nothing new, the only thing of my own design will be the piston mechanism, never been able to find how the original was working...

    I'll post pics of my CNC once it's unpacked, in my new house, the work area is not big but large enough for AT-AT parts (the largest part being the body armature side plates).

    Yeah John is the man to master the head and body, if available by the time I build it, I'll take a set for sure ! It would save me some headaches. :lol One of my concern for the body is how to reproduce the texture of the armor plate. This rough texture was part of the original body master and I dont know how they achieved that but without this texture we would end up with something like the MR... something flat and smooth.
     
  28. swpropmaker

    swpropmaker Sr Member

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    Id want to make sure we are simular in shape and size... maybe you can share with Mike Salzo when he starts his version of legs... As far as the texture.. i always thought it was flocking.... they added panels to the metal substructureand flocked it to make it look like snow...ect... the entire ATAT its texured differently.... is that what you are refering to when you say texture?

    The casting that is foam filled we have reference of shows the flocking pretty clear... also the layers of storage dust is taking its toll... my favorite shot is in the Chromicals... full page... ATAT in all it's glory..

    Steve
     
  29. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    The piston system Julien blows my mind, and is to me, the reason this armature is one the the most intricate and well engineered in history.
    Its like some sort of rocking cam system, as the thigh moves, those pistons stay static maybe?
    Giving the effect, the pistons are moving.....i dont know lol.

    Also, the toes, not quite sure whats going on there too, the foot assemblies show several parts, with what appears to be a large spring dampening the foot centre?

    Was this spring there to "unload" the toes as the foot lifts, maybe only on the full hero models?

    Do love to talk ATAT lol, its a bonkers way out there prop for sure.

    As for body texture, id bet thats rough paint, coupled with the baking soda they blew around the set maybe, then, add layers of dust over time......possibly?

    lee
     
  30. stonky

    stonky Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I'm loving this. :)
     
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  31. north3

    north3 Member

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  32. jedimaster

    jedimaster Sr Member

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    Glad you're still going with that. Looking great.
     
  33. MonsieurTox

    MonsieurTox Master Member

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    Yeah the pistons are quite confusing and when you look closely at the movie you can notice they were sometimes hand animated (probably the mechanism was broken at some point, it was probably very fragile).

    As for the toes, Im not sure they were linked to the spring, I think they just dropped down by gravity as there's no evidence the toes go through the feet. Also, the feet were not only compressed by the weight of the ATAT but by screws through the stage. I think it was Berg explaining that if Im correct.

    Regarding the texture I was more thinking about the texture of the armor body panels. We can see it un the Chronicles pic of the body master painted black with the partialy unpainted 223 hull. It can also be seen in any close up pics. Also in the pics MR took of the ATAT casting. We can clearly see through the paint that the texture is part of the casting thus part of the master (they used the same body mold for this casting than the production ATAT).

    The ATAT is an awesome model to study, really a piece of work !
     
  34. MonsieurTox

    MonsieurTox Master Member

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    Jon your ATAT is awesome ! The head is trully amazing !
     
  35. ralphee

    ralphee Sr Member

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    Ah i hear ya Julien, ill look at those pics again. As for the toes, yeah, i have a pic of one of the naked foot casings, your right, no link to the toes, so maybe it just dampened the centre of the foot?
    Its a mystery lol, but, if there is a chance of getting an armature when you get to it, id still be in, be good to build with the old school again, if not, well, its all good bud.

    lee
     
  36. MonsieurTox

    MonsieurTox Master Member

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    Yeah if you ever got an idea of how they achivied this rough texture, i would like to hear it ! I havent found something convaincing enough yet. :(

    I remembre this pic of the foot casting, i guess the only way to know that and how the pistons work would be to get in touch with Berg or St-Amand !

    Ill see what i can do for you about the armature, no promess, i need to know first how long it takes to get all the parts CNC'ed. First I need to find someone to convert my plans into cnc readable files, I dont know how much it will cost me.
     
  37. christrom

    christrom Well-Known Member

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    This thread sounds great. If you were to make a resin/acrylic version as a kit I think I would go for it. I don't have a master replicas version myself and would much prefer to build up from a kit. I'm still working on 3 amt/ertl at-ats trying to make them a lot more like the studio models. They will be little blinders when they are done as I've spent over a year on them on and off already :)
     
  38. KramStaar

    KramStaar Sr Member

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    Going back to the thread's original question I saw the MR ATAT Lucasfilm gave to Phil Tippett in Tippett Studios reception and I asked Phil what he thought. He was especially enthusiastic about the piece (that's also why its showcased in his reception) and he couldn't shower enough praise on the workmanship and in his opinion, the exceptionally fine work MR did in realising the replica…

    Its ironic that it appears (again) that the gifted members of these boards see and want things that even the original model makers aren't fussed about…

    [​IMG]

    Regards and best

    MARK
     
  39. Guy Cowen

    Guy Cowen Sr Member

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    Saying that, if Mr Tippett wanted a stop Motion Replica of his At-At he wouldn't buy an MR version, he'd make a Stop Mo, there are no stop mo versions on the open market so those members here that want one have no choice!

    I have the MR At-AT and I love it, but it aint a stop motion model.
     
  40. artoo77

    artoo77 Well-Known Member

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    Please be aware the stop motion At-AT was developed by Jon Berg and machined by Tom St. Amand. Phil Tippet has been getting credit for it for years; the worst insult to Jon was when MR hired him to paint the master of their version, but then released a signature edition with Phil's autograph.

    Jon was responsible for the AT-AT, Phil for the Taun-taun. Tom St. Amand did the armatures, and others (Steve Gawley, Charlie Bailey, etc) detailed the model parts on the walker. Jon engineered the complex piston armature mechanics that you folks are trying to replicate.

    It frustrates me to no end that Jon doesn't receive the proper credit for his hard work.

    --Don Bies
     
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  41. swpropmaker

    swpropmaker Sr Member

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    Don,

    thanks for the head's up...Awesome first hand info!!! makes sence then of the "proud poppa" photo of Jon with the at-at in the chronicals... I love that picture... probally a shot of the paint master.... seems not only text credits Phil but photo's as well.... hardley see any pictures of Jon working close up with the AT-AT but Tippett is everywhere in the photos...

    Guys checkout this photo... man the foot has some serious spring tension.. lower foot has four main parts...

    [​IMG]

    #1 Main foot pad and spring housing has connectors/tabs for individual toe manipulations... essembly does not move locked in position.

    #2 Upper Foot spring housing free floating moves up and down with the housing (shock obsorber) under spring pressure held in place by #3 locked into #1 (maybe?) thoughts?

    #2a Not marked in the picture.. but the cap can be seen behind #2 that goes on top of #2 also looks like the top of the spring may actually go around the cap insert.

    #3 Outer foot rim retainer.. Attaches to #1 and top of #2 resin detail outer shell. Holds #2 in postion.. looks like it screws into the top of #1 (maybe?) thoughts?


    #4 Resin detail cladding. Slides down over #1 held in place by toe cut outs and #3

    Should be easy enough to replicate this feature...

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2011
  42. Guy Cowen

    Guy Cowen Sr Member

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    Thanks for the truth there Don, Its good to know who should actually get the credit for the hard work. Its pretty shocking that MR did this, even worse that Phil T actually signed them. I suppose now we know we can give credit where its due.

    I have a question for you if you dont mind me Pm'n it, its re a certain R2 Dome and a certain Norman Harrison and Son. I nearly bought the Dome that got pulled from the PIH Auction a few years back, it all got very tense. Would love your opinion on something about the dome? All light hearted and interesting

    Thanks Guy
     
  43. artoo77

    artoo77 Well-Known Member

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    PM away.

    --Don

     
  44. stonky

    stonky Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    It's funny, it never occurred to me that the texture on the hull would have been intentional - it always struck me as a paint cure gone bad either over time or under the hot stage lights. Shows you how much I know.
     
  45. MonsieurTox

    MonsieurTox Master Member

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    Dont worry a lot of guys know who designed and machined the AT-AT armatures ! Those 2 guys are heroes !

    Steve, there is one more part that goes on top of part #2 (machined aluminium), that makes 16 parts only for the feet, not counting the springs nor the toes !

    Yeah i was thinking that too about the texture, but after looking at several ref pics of the different ATATs, the texture is exactly the same and they took care to not apply it on the hatches.
     
  46. swpropmaker

    swpropmaker Sr Member

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    As far as the texture goes.... I'm gonna leave that up to the builder... looks like the black paint they used to prime some of the master parts sputtered.. I can see what Juilien is talking about.. problem is.. it's not uniform through out all the castings.. so I'm thinking a thickened primer coat could create the texture as seen... this could be done after the fact I think...

    Thanks Don!

    Steve
     
  47. swpropmaker

    swpropmaker Sr Member

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    Juilien.. yeah I posted the info on the pic... Do you have the spatter pattern drawn out? Would like to see better what you are seeing between the diferent at-at's. Can you circle a pic for me... the areas that is..

    Steve
     
  48. MonsieurTox

    MonsieurTox Master Member

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    I remember i get a similar effect as a kid on one of model, oil ran for whatever reason on the paint and i get this kind of result, the bad thing is that the paint was very fragile after that...
     
  49. moffeaton

    moffeaton Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Except that MR rejected Berg's paint master for being "great for film, but not for up-close scrutiny", and they deemed it too "tan" with visible sponge marks... I was asked to paint it for "replica standards" which I guess meant idealized, and let me tell you, repriming the Berg paint job made my stomach churn. At that time I was under a severe deadline, and they only had the two test shots. Oof.

    Here's what Berg did:
    [​IMG]
     
  50. STEVE THE SWEDE

    STEVE THE SWEDE Sr Member

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    Json, thanks for posting that! I never seen that pic before! That's just amazing, not putting down anybody else's hard work but that's got to be best SS matching paint job I've ever seen on a walker.

    Thanks again, cool of you to post it giving some well deserved credit to Jon.

    Cheers,
    Steve.
     

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