Modeling, Star Trek style, on the cheap

[IndyFanChuck]

I know I have brought this up before, but I wanted to ask another question about doing some "on the cheap" model work for fun.

So, say I am going to do "old school" fliming of a model, and make it look like its in space. I am talking, literally - taking a model, doing your best, and filming it going this way and that.

So, pretend I want to just shoot a shot of the enterprise off in the distance going from left to right, not in a hurry, just a short {USS Enterprise enters from the left side of the screen, and travels to the right side of the screen}.

Is there any way I can even attempt to do this on a budget? I know we are not talking ILM quality here, but I wanted to know what I could to do TRY it.

And, do I use a "green screen" in the background? Obviously I don't have the machine to do multiple shots, and have them exact. I would be using what I have on hand at my house. I just wanted to know what I can do to make it look as good as I can.

I am going to shoot this tomorrow, and then I thought I might post it here and we could talk about it. (That is my hope, but it IS sleeting right now. LOL)

What are things I can do to try and at least make it look as good as I can, with what I have at hand?


Thanks for the advice, and for NOT making too much fun of me. :lol Truly, I would love to do something on par with Star Trek I, but who has the money?

God, if it COULD be done on the cheap, I would totally dedicate the next YEAR of all my money to that project!!!! But, since I dont have that kind of money, I thought I would ask what I can do.....


--Chuck

 

[IndyFanChuck]

Also, wasn't there an episode of Reading Rainbow where Levar Burton explains, on a children's level (which I can understand!) how they film the scenes of the Enterprise moving????

If I could watch that again, that would rock. I just REFUSE to believe that there isn't a "relatively" inexpensive way to do the same thing, with todays technology - at home. Is that me being stubborn...?

 

[Mike J.]

I suppose the simplest way would be to set up your model in front of a blue / green / tangerine screen and slowly roll your camera from right to left.

Ideally, your camera would be on some kind of dolly system for a smooth, consistent shot.

* I'm not an expert


-Mike

 

[jts1031]

Go outside at night and just film the model against the night sky. To do it like a pro you'd need to make multiple passes with the camera that would need to match up perfect. Or you can shoot it against a solid color and then cut the model out and paste it against a backdrop.

 

[IndyFanChuck]

My question is, without the 250,000$ dollar computer camera, how can we make multiple passes at the model that are exactly alike?

Im not being a smarta$$, I really want to know. Because that is the real problem that I am finding. HOW to do some of these things. I can probably come up with a tracking system. But "perfect" tracking..... LOL

I am racking my small brain here!

Oh... and I went to Public School, so dont make fun of me. :lol

Go outside at night and just film the model against the night sky. To do it like a pro you'd need to make multiple passes with the camera that would need to match up perfect. Or you can shoot it against a solid color and then cut the model out and paste it against a backdrop.

 

[phase pistol]

The old way, done in TOS and many other shows, was to put the model up on a pipe stand, and roll the camera past it on a trolley set on rails.

Later the blue backdrop could be removed (chroma-keyed-out), and starfield backgrounds added, through an optical compositing process. Basically film clips would be combined and rephotographed to form the new image.

By the days of TNG, the camera trolley was computer-controlled, so that the same camera move could be repeated exactly several times in a row. This means a "hero pass" could photograph the model, and then key lights would be turned off, and a second camera pass would record the dimmer lights on the ship (windows and blinkers).

A very sharp silhouette could be pulled off of the darkened ship by using a backlit orange backdrop. Backgrounds can be dropped out and star images inserted, with computer compositing.

For your purposes, you might build the pipe stands and rails using wood and PVC piping... you could shoot with rented HD cameras, and composit digitally in a computer.

You might not be able to do REPEATED passes, unless you build some kind of motorized vehicle to move the camera exactly the same every time. You'll probably just have to settle for a single "hero pass" with key light and leave it at that.

- k

 

[CTF]

The way it is done down here, is pretty much the same way it was done on 2001. Mo-con and miniature photography have not changed all that much since 2001. Although STAR WARS refined mo-con... and while it has been refined in the time since [the latter], it is still essentially the same. But particular tasks are a lot easier, though. VistaVision cameras have been replaced by the 235 and the CineAlta, in most shops. But there still are 80 year-old Mitchells† being used. How ****ing cool is that?

†These are more suited for this type of work. True workhorses.

But in regards to shooting minis? You will need lots of light. Get the F-stop as high as you can! Do not worry about T-stops... not just yet, anyway. But that should, hopefully, give you a greater depth-of-field. Which is what you need to shoot minis. That'll give you focus along the entire length, width and depth of the model. That is the most important part, of course. Focus! You have to get the lens as close as you can, too. And the bigger the model, the better.

That is it, basically. And I mean basically. :lol It is late, I am beat... and my brain isn't working.

There are so many variables when it comes to shooting models, but it is so much fun. I would rather shoot minis instead of L/A, myself. It is an art form within an art form.

So, go out... experiment! Maybe try with an SLR? Shoot some stills. You will have more control in that regard. It will teach you the bare minimum basics. Learn how a lens works. That is the secret!

And, Chuck, I met the most beautiful gal from Arkansas. In a club in LA, no less... but that is a different topic (and probably too OT for the off-topic :cool).

 

[IndyFanChuck]

Great advice everyone. I guess I need to do a whole set up before I begin.


Are there ANY set-ups sold to the public, cameras and the track set up for multiple passes - are those sold to the general public?

 

[Mike J.]

Chuckster, I second CTF's recommendation to shoot stills for practice before shooting video.

It'd be relatively easy to set up a ... set-up for shooting multiple stills:

Get your model on a stand.

Hang something black behind it (black velvet?).

Position your camera (ideally on a sturdy, stable tripod) and frame the shot.

Never touch the camera again until you're done shooting.

Using a remote control, take the shots under multiple lighting conditions.

Now that the shooting is done, take the images into a graphics program like Adobe Photoshop or Adobe Elements and begin compositing them together.

Choose the best examples of the ship unlit, it's interior lights, exterior lights and engine lights, and start to cut & paste & blend until you get a decent beauty shot.

Then save it and reposition your model for another angle and another series of shots.

- - -

The key assumption here is that your model has some kind of electric lighting. If it doesn't, your best option for faking internal lighting for engines & windows would be to apply some Scotchlite to the chosen areas, then arrange your set-up so that one of the shots has the light source very close to and almost parallel to the camera. That way you'll be able to get an effect like self-illumination. I've seen this done on some Star Trek models made by fans & posted at Starship Modeler. When done properly, it's a convincing illusion for the purposes of still photography.

*Again, I'm not an expert. Barely even a photographer or modeler. :lol


-Mike

 

[Mike J.]

As far as a commercial or DIY motion control setup, by best guess would be no.

Maybe, you might be able to put something together by using a Lego Mindstorms set, a PC and some Lego tracks & gears. You might be able to build and control a dolly with a modicum of precision. You'd have to mount a digital camcorder to the dolly as well. Can't shoot with no camera.

*Guesses by an extremely amateur amateur.


-Mike

 

[vistaVision]

Hello Chuck,

You can do a lot of neat and fun stuff with your model, a few lights, a couple yards of black velvet from the fabric store, your camcorder and a skateboard. You can probably figure out from this list what's what.

Now I've got a little experience with this motion control thing, and my advice is to keep it simple and have fun with it. Any attempt to create registered multi-pass images will likely leave you frustrated. You will not achieve the necessary precision without the proper tools, a full machine shop, years of experience and tons of money. Even with all that, it was never easy...

You have gotten a lot of great advice here. (CTF, it looks like I owe you a reply to a PM a couple of months ago. My apologies! Look for a PM sometime over the weekend).

If you are really curious about renting/buying "off the shelf" moco rigs then check out this website for tons of great information about modern motion control: www.mrmoco.com

Keep us posted with your questions and your results!
Marcus

 

[IndyFanChuck]

That is just great guys, thanks for the ideas. I truly appreciate everything. My plan is to work on this the first week of January. I will try first with a photo, then Ill do a basic pass on the model.

We can talk about the results. They will probably be AWFUL, but we all have to start somewhere.

 

[Rats]

Blade Fan,

There are some excellent resources/tutorials over here http://boards.theforce.net/board.asp?brd=10015
and some good compositing tutorials here http://www.durbnpoisn.com/films/index.asp and other effects stuff here http://www.ryan-w.com/ryan-w/index.html.

Have fun reading and trying,

Cheers, JT