Magic of Myth ( MoM ) Luke RotJ Hero ( cave build ) lightsaber research, images, reference, & collaborative model builder's discussion.

[Dann]

Yeah, mostly what I'm seeing is really bad castings. I wouldn't personally trust a resin cast for discerning details like that.

I've yet to see a pic of the aluminum prop that can convince me the box is off center.

I feel like it'd be really difficult to mount the box off center if a simple flat were milled into the body and the box just plopped on top of that flat. I mean, the first thing an endmill is gonna touch when lowered onto (or maybe I should say passed across) a cylinder is the top center. It's the highest spot. I suppose this is assuming a flat was milled, of course.

You'd have to REALLY try to mess that up, in my opinion. But hey, I guess anything's possible!

 

[DaveP]

I'm inclined to believe that the box has a rounded bottom personally. I've not seen any photos that make me think the body has a flattened section. This one in particular has what *looks* like it *could* be a bit of a gap.

As for the off centre box though, I'm just throwing this out there. My model has its box dead centre, and I've been able to align it perfectly with all the reference photos. This just wouldn't be possible if the box was off centre. It's hard enough lining these things up when the model is a match. It would be impossible to do if there were significant differences. I've had some pretty warped resin casts myself, over the years too.

 

[Halliwax]

That control box is so ugly only a mother could love...

Does that make sense?

 

[Mouse Vader]

My tuppence worth is that a machined flat on the hilt is much more easily achieved than a curved bottom to the box, of the correct radius.
As there is no alignment issue of the box with anything else on the hilt it's just a matter popping the hilt in the machine vice & milling the flat with any old end mill, with a quick ref to the box for width (which is set by depth of cut.)
For a radiused bottom (ooh er) you'd need a cutter the right diam & at least some effort to center the box for the cut., & the box would have had to be made with this method in mind to ensure there was enough depth of metal in the base to do this.

 

[BRRogers]

My tuppence worth is that a machined flat on the hilt is much more easily achieved than a curved bottom to the box, of the correct radius.
As there is no alignment issue of the box with anything else on the hilt it's just a matter popping the hilt in the machine vice & milling the flat with any old end mill, with a quick ref to the box for width (which is set by depth of cut.)
For a radiused bottom (ooh er) you'd need a cutter the right diam & at least some effort to center the box for the cut., & the box would have had to be made with this method in mind to ensure there was enough depth of metal in the base to do this.

I made a box radiused for my build with a 3/4” x 2” piece of aluminum and a 1.5” forstner bit. Stood on end and bored the hole with support material to keep the bit from walking.
Not the correct way to do things but it did work handily.

I also have another thought that it seems the box isn’t fully tight, in some pictures it shifts up and down the hilt. I haven’t been able to collate images on that yet but that indicates to me it’s not seated in a flatly milled area. (If it’s the case)

 

[teecrooz]

I bet the reason for the bevels on the bottom was to make it match the radius without having large sharp overhangs on the box base.

 

[thd9791]

I bet the reason for the bevels on the bottom was to make it match the radius without having large sharp overhangs on the box base.

I agree with this.

Also, I'm not sure if I'm reading this right, are we wondering if the box has a flat bottom instead of a curved bottom? I'm not sure where the flat bottom idea came from, other than from a few replicas made in the community. It seems very blatantly to me the box has a curved bottom, so i attached a pic from the first post

 

[Mouse Vader]

I made a box radiused for my build with a 3/4” x 2” piece of aluminum and a 1.5” forstner bit. Stood on end and bored the hole with support material to keep the bit from walking.
Not the correct way to do things but it did work handily.

I'm sure it worked just fine, I'm merely pointing out that milling a flat is just so much quicker & easier. Was this what they did? I doubt we'll get the answer from photo scrutiny, unless BRR is right about this:

I also have another thought that it seems the box isn’t fully tight, in some pictures it shifts up and down the hilt. I haven’t been able to collate images on that yet but that indicates to me it’s not seated in a flatly milled area. (If it’s the case)

thd - we're in photo interpretation arena again here too. That looks like it could be either to me. I'll whack an end mill across some tube when I have time for comparison.

 

[Halliwax]

I agree with this.

Also, I'm not sure if I'm reading this right, are we wondering if the box has a flat bottom instead of a curved bottom? I'm not sure where the flat bottom idea came from, other than from a few replicas made in the community. It seems very blatantly to me the box has a curved bottom, so i attached a pic from the first post
View attachment 1050413

Tom I think what they are saying is the bottom of the box is flat, and the hilt itself has a flat milling slot cut out of it, where the box sits “inside” it flush.

I don’t believe that is the case

 

[Mouse Vader]

and the hilt itself has a flat milling slot cut out of it,

Yes to flat bottom of box but I'm not talking slot just a flat 'patch' . I can't explain better than that I'll do one when I can. I can't vouch for what others are thinking of if different than that.

 

[BRRogers]

Well... I will say that whoever the first of us is to go to George Lucas’ new museum and see the Hero had better take a good camera and get some damn good pictures

I updated the top of the thread with debated issues which: I do intend to weigh any arguments and include both sides for discussion until *truth with evidence* or substantive enough argument is revealed.

Of course:
Would still be happy to accept any additional
Unseen photography for the top of the thread.
Has anyone tried alternative language searches?

 

[BRRogers]

Yes to flat bottom of box but I'm not talking slot just a flat 'patch' . I can't explain better than that I'll do one when I can. I can't vouch for what others are thinking of if different than that.

I get what you mean! I’m not absolutely sold that you aren’t correct either: there’s not enough substantive evidence to say one or the other definitively at this point.

I will say though that for FX capable
Replicas a radiused box is more conducive since a flat milled box would inhibit threading and the inner wall diameter would suffer in several ways.

 

[Dann]

Yes to flat bottom of box but I'm not talking slot just a flat 'patch' . I can't explain better than that I'll do one when I can. I can't vouch for what others are thinking of if different than that.

Yes, that's also what I'm describing/theorizing. Not a slot, a flat. If there's a good, tight press-fit, it can be REAL difficult to tell one way or another from any pics.

Hell, before I removed my old Rylo box again, several months back, it had been YEARS since I'd messed with it. And I HONESTLY thought the box was radiused at the bottom! It was only after I pried my homemade "circuit board guts" from the inside bottom, loosened the two screws and removed the thing, that I realized it was a flat bottom, sitting on a flat.

I'm serious, I literally could not tell, until I had it apart. My eyes were fooled and I had the dagummed thing IN MY HANDS!

All that said, though, I don't want anyone to take what I'm saying the wrong way. It honestly makes NO difference to me which way the real one was done, I don't WANT it to be one way or the other. It'd just be nice to know.

Sometimes I look at the pictures and I see a radiused underside, sitting on a cylindrical hilt. Then I remind myself what happened when I took the box off my old Rylo. And then I think about how easy and straightforward it is to cut a simple flat into a cylinder on a mill.

 

[Dann]

I bet the reason for the bevels on the bottom was to make it match the radius without having large sharp overhangs on the box base.

But Chris, the same thing could happen either way.

If the flat isn't cut deep enough, you could end up with overhang on the sides, as well.

Sure, all you gotta do is make another pass with the mill, taking off a few more thousandths.

Maybe the machinist had already removed the hilt from the vise (and there wasn't enough time to set it up again).

I get what you're saying, Tom, that maybe the reason the chamfer on the backside of the box is more aggressive is because the screw holes (if it was attached with screws) from the box to the hilt didn't line up perfectly (maybe one set of holes was off center), and without chamfering the back bottom edge a little more, there would've still been some overhang.

But I don't think the box was off center AFTER those corrections were made. I think maybe the wonky cast that you've got was playing tricks on you.

It seems like, if they cut a radius on the underside (and if it were the correct radius), it would hug that cylinder so well that there wouldn't be any need for chamfering the bottom edges.

 

[thd9791]

I'm thinking two molds were made of this saber, and the second was a quick pull that maybe ... wasn't... supposed to exist. It would explain the different emitter details, and the wonky parts.

i see now that if a flat were milled in, the front and back "arch" would block sight of the flat area, almost identically visually to a radiused box.

I don't have the brain to explain it, but I am guessing that somehow a calculation was off and there was a sharp overhang or an edge that just didn't look right. The bevels were added to the bottom to "finish" it off in a way. the LED plate doesnt match the pattern and... i can't believe I'm saying this, may suggest they were made after the box was installed, maybe the ISYHCANL scene didn't have them

 

[Mouse Vader]

Dann & BRR, I'm with you both all the way on what you've posted, The ONLY thing that has me leaning ever so slightly to flat bottom on a flat spot is the simplicity of machining & I am nowadays well aware that logic plays little part in prop making.

 

[Mouse Vader]

i see now that if a flat were milled in, the front and back "arch" would block sight of the flat area, almost identically visually to a radiused box.

That's what I was failing to find words for. Also in milling the flat you often raise slight burr on the edge of the 'arch' which is razor sharp, I usually take that out with small chamfer using a file. This will cast thin shadow at certain angles. As Dann has shown the radius isn't almost identical it is identical to perfectly matched radius (& doing that way saves a lot of faffing.)

may suggest they were made after the box was installed, maybe the ISYHCANL scene didn't have them

I've read others mooting the same point on other threads. We don't see that side of the box it's equally possible there were no LED's etc. That little pannel (along with the messing up of the card attachment) looks very 'added on later' to me.

 

[Mouse Vader]

Just remembered, no one (inc me) has mentioned another small advantage of a milled flat - it's always on the center line, no lining up necessary.
Screw holes are a different matter.

 

[teecrooz]

I don’t see how a milled flat is possible in this shot. The box is right on the edge of the this lip and the full radius is visible.

Then there is this one that appears to show the box has shifted position off that edge at some point.

 

[Dann]

Just remembered, no one (inc me) has mentioned another small advantage of a milled flat - it's always on the center line, no lining up necessary.
Screw holes are a different matter.

Yes, I did already say that it's always on center, since the highest spot on a cylinder laid horizontally IS the top center. And running an endmill across it would result in a centered flat.

Here's where I said it, in so many words: Post 321

And Mouse, I don't think Tom was talking about the LED plate, but was saying that perhaps the ISYHCANL's box didn't have the chamfers at the bottom edges at the time the scene was shot.


Chris: I think the box looking as if it's shifted further toward the emitter (if that's what you're describing) is a bit of an illusion. I can still see the same small amount of space in front of the box, in that picture. There's that little (maybe .030") section before the black grip ring section begins.

If the box shifted forward at all, from where it sits, that space would disappear really quickly.