M41 SPAS cage question...

[Kaylee]

I'm presuming because of that hump in the front (or back, or whatever) it would be a royal pain for the stamping part, yes?.. but what kind of tooling would be neccessary to have 'em made domestically and already "to spec" (mean, all the right cuts already made?)

I ask 'cause it seems to me if the market for originals to cut up is already so high, that the demand for a metal but lighter weight "ideallized" cage would be significant. I presume as much interest in this rifle as there's been for the last twenty years, someone's priced out what it would take to do 'em.

I'm kinda curious what the tooling cost would be.

 

[Gigatron]

Hey Kaylee,

Are you talking the cage or the SPAS pump grip? The cage is extremely easy to make (comparitively) and has been offered in the past in aluminium and steel by board members here. They have also offered the rear extending stock from the pulse rifle in the same material. I picked both up as a kit last time they were offered.

The pump grip, on the other hand, would be nearly impossible to stamp because of the compund curve involved. I believe that even on the real shotgun, the pump grip was a hardened plastic (something along the lines of Delrin).

For it to be made in aluminium, it would need to be machined from a solid block. For a one-off, the set-up costs would be astronomical. You'd probably need a run of 50 or more to offset the cost.

-Fred

 

[Jimbo890]

I think a broader market would be a drop-in replacment part for the original SPAS-12, both the cage, and the pump handle. That way, you are making a part that not only appeals to the prop maker, a pretty small market, but also to those folks that have the real SPAS-12 shotguns, and need parts to keep them working. The pump handle is an injection molded hard rubber-plastic, commonly seen on firearms, but I don't know it's commercial name. Polycarbonate is a generic term.

IMHO

 

[Birdie]

I'm not aware of anyone having reproduced the cage in aluminium. The subject has been discussed many times over on the Alien Legacy board and has proved elusive due to the point Kaylee made. AFAIK, the only reproductions with metal cages are the ones that were made before all the cages ran out (eg SD, GWTulsa).

 

[Gigatron]

Oh wait, the cage - I was thinking of the barrel vent (it kinda looks like a cage). The vent and the rear stock were made available here.

Though, going from my fuzzy memory, I don't recall any odd humps or bumps that would cause a problem. The bottom of the cage (where the shell loading port is) should be straight, front to back.

The only hump is on the top side, but that shouldn't be an issue. If you create the stamp so the the seam is on the top side, then it should be an easy work around because now the hump is being created by two halves while the rounded bottom is created in the bend.

Just a thought.

-Fred

 

[Kaylee]

Fred - good thinking.

The same thing occured to me last night - make it like the various AK flats that have been on the market of late? I mentioned the possibility to a guy I know who's looking into it... here's hoping.

Jimbo - I get your point on the drop-in replacement part for the original SPAS but... is that really a part original owners would be replacing? It looks like it doesn't make much wear and is pretty durable - is there that much of an "as it" market do you think?

Oh - and the originals are steel, not aluminum, right? Do we know what thickness?

 

[Sidewinder]

Steel, yes - mine is about 0.7/0.8mm thick

SAS

 

[WookieeGunner]

I can asure you, in USCM costuming a metal Spas is a Holy Grail. No one has yet made one that I know of and there is a guy with production contacts in China that has looked and said stamping would be too hard due to the curves.

 

[Xhiwar]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gigatron @ Mar 23 2007, 04:08 PM) [snapback]1446280[/snapback]</div>

The only hump is on the top side, but that shouldn't be an issue. If you create the stamp so the the seam is on the top side, then it should be an easy work around because now the hump is being created by two halves while the rounded bottom is created in the bend.
[/b]

Well, there's another problem, the rails on the side of the cage. You could maybe work around the top "hump" if you place the seam on top, but I have no idea how one would make those rails then.

But since the SPAS cage is actually the only thing I need in order to finally complete my pulse rifle, I'm really interested to see how this turns out. From what I gather, there's quite some demand for a replica metal cage, so depending on the price, it might actually be possible to get them replicated. I'm sure looking forward to the second somebody gives that project a shot.


Xhiwar

 

[Jimbo890]

Well, I was just thinking that if a SPAS12 owner needed a replacment, and all the trouble had been gone through to make a M41 cage, he would be out of luck due to the fact that it had been modified already, basically leaving the SPAS12 owners with out an option.

Seems to me that a steel, drop in replacement would sever both M41A builders, and the SPAS12 replacment parts market.

 

[Gigatron]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xhiwar @ Mar 26 2007, 05:52 AM) [snapback]1448285[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gigatron @ Mar 23 2007, 04:08 PM) [snapback]1446280[/snapback]

The only hump is on the top side, but that shouldn't be an issue. If you create the stamp so the the seam is on the top side, then it should be an easy work around because now the hump is being created by two halves while the rounded bottom is created in the bend.
[/b]

Well, there's another problem, the rails on the side of the cage. You could maybe work around the top "hump" if you place the seam on top, but I have no idea how one would make those rails then.

But since the SPAS cage is actually the only thing I need in order to finally complete my pulse rifle, I'm really interested to see how this turns out. From what I gather, there's quite some demand for a replica metal cage, so depending on the price, it might actually be possible to get them replicated. I'm sure looking forward to the second somebody gives that project a shot.


Xhiwar
[/b][/quote]

If you're talking about the slide rails (the indentations along which the pump grip rides), that's not a problem either. Those would be created during the stamping process.

Here's how these things generally work. A sheet of metal comes down the line and a large press stamp then presses out the shape and the cutouts. To get the slide rails in there, it would only need to have 2 metal rails of the correct width and depth under the sheet metal. Then when the stamp comes down, the two rails act as a buck, forming the slide rail indentations.

-Fred

 

[Xhiwar]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gigatron @ Mar 26 2007, 04:08 PM) [snapback]1448370[/snapback]</div>

If you're talking about the slide rails (the indentations along which the pump grip rides), that's not a problem either. Those would be created during the stamping process.
[/b]

Great.
So, who's gonna tackle that project?

Last I heard, Noeland had plans of replicating the SPAS cage, but that was a year ago. Menatarms said that his own cage project is on hold, since he's doing some other stuff and wants to be sure that the supply of real cages has vanished. Since I'm from Switzerland, where the last few cages have surfaced about two years ago, I can say with some certainty that there won't be any coming from here anymore, I've been looking around for the last year...



Xhiwar

 

[Gigatron]

I'd love to see it get done.

If a metal cage were affordable, it might be enough to convince me to convert my TM Thompson to a PR. A metal cage, metal vent and metal rear stock would be pretty great over that gun - assuming I could aslo get new shroud halves, mag bottom, shotgun internals and a delrin pump handle :unsure :lol

-Fred