Luke ROTJ V2 lightsaber

[Mara Jade's Father]

I’m married sorry.

I’m just wondering because the actual prop has been in the hands of our community so to speak for what...3...4.... years now? It doesn’t seem like anything has been freely offered to the loyal community members here when it comes to new info. Anything that has been new seems more like members squinting at images just like before. So when you say that this info will be released, whether it be parts or build info, are you talking days... months... years... decades?

 

[Verity Cosplay]

I’m just wondering because the actual prop has been in the hands of our community so to speak for what...3...4.... years now? It doesn’t seem like anything has been freely offered to the loyal community members here when it comes to new info. Anything that has been new seems more like members squinting at images just like before. So when you say that this info will be released, weather it be parts or build info, are you talking days... months... years... decades?

Well I certainly cannot speak to Brandon's choices in terms of sharing info. I know scottjua got to see it up close and worked with NWL for their V2 offering. To my knowledge tho, no one (including Scott) was allowed to caliper the prop nor disassemble it. I could be wrong but I don't think they have.

In terms of the discovery of the chunk, we would release findings once confirmed and dialogues are had with the company to determine if supply exists of the part to secure a supply for the community pre-scalp. Then all of the actual academic info (teecrooz and I have both been researching tirelessly since the discovery to narrow down years of production and potentially even the factory location where the chunks were made; I can also tell you the discovery also is a rabbit hole in itself and leads to some other interesting questions when looking at the providence of the chunk). Once we feel we have all of this buttoned up, the reveal will happen. Certainly not decades or even years. I expect weeks or months (and not even many) before this is all compiled. That would be my assertion/expectation.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

Well I certainly cannot speak to Brandon's choices in terms of sharing info. I know scottjua got to see it up close and worked with NWL for their V2 offering. To my knowledge tho, no one (including Scott) was allowed to caliper the prop nor disassemble it. I could be wrong but I don't think they have.

In terms of the discovery of the chunk, we would release findings once confirmed and dialogues are had with the company to determine if supply exists of the part to secure a supply for the community pre-scalp. Then all of the actual academic info (teecrooz and I have both been researching tirelessly since the discovery to narrow down years of production and potentially even the factory location where the chunks were made; I can also tell you the discovery also is a rabbit hole in itself and leads to some other interesting questions when looking at the providence of the chunk). Once we feel we have all of this buttoned up, the reveal will happen. Certainly not decades or even years. I expect weeks or months (and not even many) before this is all compiled. That would be my assertion/expectation.

In all honesty, I‘m not really talking about you guys. I mean think about it, you might be doing all this work and some people here might have known for some time now what the real part has been but they just are not saying.

Trent seems to know something about this even mentioned he knows the attachment method. Now I feel I know Trent at least well enough to say he is a stand up guy and I have to believe that if he was allowed to share the info, he would. All I am trying to find out is what is it that we shouldn’t be wasting our time with and when might this info be revealed?

I’m not trying to be a dick, just looking for some answers.

 

[Edraven99]

I am involved in a lot of these threads for just the info. I don’t really care bout obtaining real parts, I just want to know how it was made and if there is a story or reasoning why it was done, well then that is great too. But I am the kind of guy that is happy with a fan made graflex or a denix blaster build. I’m more of an idealized prop replica collector anyhow.

So for me, a lot of the time I like to see if I can help find found parts to help expose details about the props. As a result, it is very aggrivating to find out you might be wasting your time because someone already had known the answer for some time or to hear, “we know, but we are not telling.” And I am not talking just about the mystery chunk, seems like there might be a lot of info that might be known about this prop that‘s being kept under wraps. And not just about parts but construction methods too. If that’s the case, I would like to know why? I don’t even care if it is about money, future project or pride, I just would like some transparency On this matter.

To be blunt, why do you care then?

From the sounds of things the part and the source will be revealed eventually be it in a few days, weeks or maybe even months. At which point Dan or Roman or Solo's Hold will update their replica part based on the real deal and you'll have your idealized replica.

The main part of all of this from what I'm understanding is first to verify that this is indeed the part that everyone has been looking for and then ensure that there isn't any run up on the prices on the the chunk when the eventual free-for-all ensues for the real-world part once it's out there for all to see in order to protect those people that *do* care about having the real part for their builds.

So what I'm hearing is that you're bellyaching because you want the information now, now, now! for your own personal knowledge and damn everyone else that might actually want the piece itself? A little self entitled don't you think?

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

...So what I'm hearing is that you're bellyaching because you want the information now, now, now! for your own personal knowledge and damn everyone else that might actually want the piece itself? A little self entitled don't you think?

Nope. You read it wrong. Go back and try again.

 

[Verity Cosplay]

let's remain polite everyone. Mara Jade's Father is raising a point which I DO agree with. There is a dark underbelly to this hobby, and there IS a concentration of knowledge and access that does exist. For various reasons some folks may be able share more than they do, but do not. I cited some reasons in a previous post.

I am not going to call anyone out, however, in due course of some efforts I was made aware of the existence of information that was readily at hand to some but I had to discover it all over again myself. The reason in that particular case was an asset available to the other party and it was being used for their own designs. Is that reasonable to withhold when it could mean an edge over competitive work? Possibly? I dunno.

On the flip side, Bryan and I operate from a platform of transparency and, due to Covid and various other factors our own projects have been severely delayed. He and I are ALREADY seeing some cases of our transparency and hard work resulting in other designs coming to fruition while we still struggle to get traction on ours. I cannot begin to tell you how frustrating that is. Bryan has listened to me vent a LOT about this topic.

So all of this is to say, I partly agree with Mara Jade's Father, and wish information and assets were more freely shared vs guarded secrets, but I also can understand why they are in some cases. I've been on both sides of this coin.

 

[Trooper_trent]

Trent seems to know something about this even mentioned he knows the attachment method.

Sorry, that’s incorrect. I do not know the attachment method and did not mention that I did. What I do know is that nobody is trying to keep information from anyone. It’s a brand new discovery and they’re just trying to make sure it’s correct and get their ducks in a row before the big reveal. This is supposed to be fun. The only reason Bryan mentioned it in the first place instead of keeping it a complete secret was to prevent another member from wasting money on the wrong thing. Again all of this is being done to help the community.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

Sorry, that’s incorrect. I do not know the attachment method and did not mention that I did. What I do know is that nobody is trying to keep information from anyone. It’s a brand new discovery and they’re just trying to make sure it’s correct and get their ducks in a row before the big reveal. This is supposed to be fun. The only reason Bryan mentioned it in the first place instead of keeping it a complete secret was to prevent another member from wasting money on the wrong thing. Again all of this is being done to help the community.

Ugg.. I got you mixed up with Scott’s post. Sorry about that. I like Scott too.

 

[Trooper_trent]

you might be doing all this work and some people here might have known for some time now what the real part has been but they just are not saying.

I think this might be the main misunderstanding. That's not the case at all. Nobody knew what it was until just a few days ago. it's a new discovery for everyone. They're just trying to get it all wrapped up in a neat package to present the discovery in a fun and thorough way. I'm just happy to let them do that.

 

[morgan63]

can't wait to see this

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

I think this might be the main misunderstanding. That's not the case at all. Nobody knew what it was until just a few days ago. it's a new discovery for everyone. They're just trying to get it all wrapped up in a neat package to present the discovery in a fun and thorough way. I'm just happy to let them do that.

That is true... from your stand point as well as most of us here. But it may not be the reality of the situation. Honestly answer this question: Are you 100% sure that there is not any person or people connected to our RPF community that knows more about the V2 than the information currently available on this board? And I am not just limiting it to information about the mystery chunk.

 

[roygilsing]

Yes, this is very well possible.
Just like the additional handle rivets on Luke's ANH saber: this was known for many years by some members as I understood it.
Contractual limitations (NDA's) or personal advantage in knowledge might be possible reasons.

 

[SethS]

Yes, this is very well possible.
Just like the additional handle rivets on Luke's ANH saber: this was known for many years by some members as I understood it.
Contractual limitations (NDA's) or personal advantage in knowledge might be possible reasons.

This!

As the guy who's tried to collect all this info in one place, I have been shared bits and pieces of private stuff. The people who shared were not doing so to lord it over me, and it was material I couldn't put in the book. They were showing me so I wouldn't spread disinformation unintentionally. In every case, their information couldn't be shared because either they, or their source, had signed NDAs. They trusted me to not share it. Honestly, knowing what something isn't is just as important as knowing what it is.

I've discovered one part (the ranch saber texture tape) and while obviously that doesn't quite generate the fervor of a Derwent, for a hot second I caused some stress fir a dude at a tackle shop in the midwest who had to cut the stuff by hand.

I spoke with him, then played middle man to buy an entire roll at cost and then give it to Roy so the whole community had access via a seller in the community.

 

[Mouse Vader]

I'm finding this discussion very informative. It's been skirted before in other threads (&caused grief). Regrettably I've sometimes even been involved in said grief but that was mainly out of frustration & my own personal circumstance (so I later discovered). Perhaps it has been good to get all this down in a thread for future ref ?
The commercial / monetary aspect always causes me the most trouble, in as much as this is a 'hobby' forum (or is meant to be), a community to share info. In this context the use of NDA's etc. is irksome to me. I understand better from this discussion how complex things can be even without the egotists, scalpers & knowbetters.
BBR, veritity, teecrooz - given what I've learned , you have to be commended on your tightrope walking. Guess I was 'lucky' in researching an unpopular prop.

 

[Verity Cosplay]

I'm finding this discussion very informative. It's been skirted before in other threads (&caused grief). Regrettably I've sometimes even been involved in said grief but that was mainly out of frustration & my own personal circumstance (so I later discovered). Perhaps it has been good to get all this down in a thread for future ref ?
The commercial / monetary aspect always causes me the most trouble, in as much as this is a 'hobby' forum (or is meant to be), a community to share info. In this context the use of NDA's etc. is irksome to me. I understand better from this discussion how complex things can be even without the egotists, scalpers & knowbetters.
BBR, veritity, teecrooz - given what I've learned , you have to be commended on your tightrope walking. Guess I was 'lucky' in researching an unpopular prop.

NDAs are very real. In some cases the NDA is with LFL directly, or Prop Shop, or in some cases the owner of an original (I suspect this to be the case with Brandon). As the owner of a very expensive original prop, it may be that Brandon releases information to some folks working on runs in an exchange for some compensation in an attempt to allow his investment in the original to recoup some of the costs. (I am purely speculating and honestly would not blame him for doing so). If you spend thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars on a coveted original item, why is it unfair to want to make that item work for you as an investment and essentially "sell" the details vs giving them freely? Furthermore, it could be one of the conditions Brandon himself has upon purchase is some sort of NDA from LFL. Some of the licensing is extremely invasive from LFL and under Disney I am sure it is even worse. Disney is notorious for viciously protecting their intellectual property. So let's say someone has a buddy who works at LFL and they receive special info from their friend. They now have knowledge but likely cannot release it because of how it was obtained. That does not make them evil or elitist. They are protecting their friend at LFL and preserving the chain of custody.

It's a really grey area. So we all try to do the best we can under the environment we are in, which is trying to hobby replicate copyrighted items.

I'll even give a very personal example. I work for a company as my profession that just so happens to have some photos that have never been released from the SW universe. They were obtained directly from LFL and/or taken themselves and as a result hold the image rights. I am bound by my actual job (even tho it has nothing to do with SW) that I cannot disclose material non-public information. I literally can be fired and lose my job. SW is a hobby. I am not about to lose my job over a hobby. As a result I have not even shared this material with Bryan, who is my close working partner. It just is the way it is.

I cannot imagine my situation is unique here.

 

[Mouse Vader]

When the time is right, we'll reveal it.

I thought it was common knowledge that they plugged the holes that had the switch and the power cables coming out of the hilt during ANH. Which powered the motor for the spinning blade during the duel between Obi and Vader.

Inability to communicate effectively is very much a factor of (my) autism & appears to be at play here. I know that these switch & wire holes are what are plugged I just don't get why . That is the V2 is (or was) the action stunt 'double' for the OB1 hero (which did not have said greeblies). None of the other thin neck sabers had or were subsiquently fitted with similar greeblies in the whole OT, so why fit them to the V2 ? Doing so actively makes it dissimilar to every other on-screen thin neck saber in the OT. The holes (assuming they could be seen at all on-screen) would thus have been better off blanked flush as is done with other sabers screws/holes. eg. with tape on the V3 (? - hope I got that right). It's this aspect that has me puzzled.

 

[Verity Cosplay]

Inability to communicate effectively is very much a factor of (my) autism & appears to be at play here. I know that these switch & wire holes are what are plugged I just don't get why . That is the V2 is (or was) the action stunt 'double' for the OB1 hero (which did not have said greeblies). None of the other thin neck sabers had or were subsiquently fitted with similar greeblies in the whole OT, so why fit them to the V2 ? Doing so actively makes it dissimilar to every other on-screen thin neck saber in the OT. The holes (assuming they could be seen at all on-screen) would thus have been better off blanked flush as is done with other sabers screws/holes. eg. with tape on the V3 (? - hope I got that right). It's this aspect that has me puzzled.

Well, speculatively, remember that the V2 was incidental when LA realized they could not use the Graflex since it was lost during the cloud city battle. So to repair the continuity error they grabbed one of the stunts. For all we know the prop master was like "this looks too much like OWK's so I need to dress this up a bit" and slapped some stuff around the shop they had on hand.

This happens all the time and is often how we get the props we get all over the Hollywood universe. You are assuming WAY too much forethought in the Creative Department in this situation. I am willing to bet a lot of it was happenstance at the time.

 

[teecrooz]

Well, as it is the true hero/belt hanger, I would say that all the other sabers are lacking the details because they are stunt sabers and the knob and chunk are in the way. Even the ISYHCANL and then Cave/MoM were just a prettied up stunt hilt.

 

[Mouse Vader]

Thanks for extra info (post #2915). I'm sure I'm not unique in having to have this sort of stuff explained. It's not like anything I've personally ever encountered before & hence is bewildering. So often even asking for this sort of explanation results in the dreaded silence - itself something that is never explained. Thanks again.

 

[scottjua]

NDAs are very real. In some cases the NDA is with LFL directly, or Prop Shop, or in some cases the owner of an original (I suspect this to be the case with Brandon). As the owner of a very expensive original prop, it may be that Brandon releases information to some folks working on runs in an exchange for some compensation in an attempt to allow his investment in the original to recoup some of the costs. (I am purely speculating and honestly would not blame him for doing so). If you spend thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars on a coveted original item, why is it unfair to want to make that item work for you as an investment and essentially "sell" the details vs giving them freely? Furthermore, it could be one of the conditions Brandon himself has upon purchase is some sort of NDA from LFL. Some of the licensing is extremely invasive from LFL and under Disney I am sure it is even worse. Disney is notorious for viciously protecting their intellectual property. So let's say someone has a buddy who works at LFL and they receive special info from their friend. They now have knowledge but likely cannot release it because of how it was obtained. That does not make them evil or elitist. They are protecting their friend at LFL and preserving the chain of custody.

It's a really grey area. So we all try to do the best we can under the environment we are in, which is trying to hobby replicate copyrighted items.

I'll even give a very personal example. I work for a company as my profession that just so happens to have some photos that have never been released from the SW universe. They were obtained directly from LFL and/or taken themselves and as a result hold the image rights. I am bound by my actual job (even tho it has nothing to do with SW) that I cannot disclose material non-public information. I literally can be fired and lose my job. SW is a hobby. I am not about to lose my job over a hobby. As a result I have not even shared this material with Bryan, who is my close working partner. It just is the way it is.

I cannot imagine my situation is unique here.

I cannot speak for Brandon, but I can tell you I have NEVER heard of him trying to profit from his owning the prop in any way... he doesn't give secrets to runs to get compensation. He's graciously shared info about it when asked. So I'm pretty sure you can put that theory to rest... I'm pretty sure he didn't buy it to make money from it. He has a true passion for the thing and its history.

As for NDAs, and secret keeping it's as simple as this... someone shares something with you and says: "please don't share this" or "please don't post about it"... then as a moral human being... you JUST DON'T DO THAT WHICH YOU ARE ASKED NOT TO DO. It's called cultivating relationships and trust. It doesn't matter what the reasons are you're being asked to shut your mouth... it's a request given in a relationship of trust. There ARE NDAs... but most of the time it's with the sole purpose to STOP profiteering from the knowledge.

Replicas are made with usually two intentions:

1. Make a replica of something you cannot practically own an original of, either due to expense or lack of availability. Most people are emotionally connected with an object and having some tangible means of reconnecting with those emotions drive that acquisition. So there's a passion in making a replica for you to connect, and sometimes the only way to fund it is to do it in large quantities... meaning economy of scale helps get it made... and the maker may want to spread the joy of having that connection rekindled with others... hence runs.

2. Profit: People may only want to just capitalize on that emotional response to an object JUST to make the money. There's nothing wrong with it really, as we live in a free society. Build it and they will come.

I think most of the secrecy is usually to cut down on the pure intentions of number 2.