Prop Store

Luke Return Of The Jedi Lightsaber

Discussion in 'Production Made Costumes and Props' started by thd9791, Dec 8, 2011.

  1. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    Hey everyone, I've been browsing the many debates over this prop, is there a definitive list of who made what when, and who used what?

    I'm also curious if anyone dug up anything on the rubber/resin stunt that was shot out of R2D2 on the sail barge?

    Also, the lightsaber hanging on Luke's belt as he climbs up the skiff looks a lot like the one he uses to fight (or just knock people off) in the same scene am I right?

    And was this idea for Luke's taken from the the stunt made for Alec Guiness? Or was that created as the story was written and just happened to be used for both movies?

    Thanks for any insight

    Here I see the one used in most of the movie, the scuffed, black metal V2 (used by Alec Guiness too?) also used in a publicity photo (see the wasters!)

    http://www.manageyourshapeblog.com/.a/6a00e54f9153e08833014e87fd7fba970d-800wi

    And here much less scuffed, in a deleted scene is the V2 again!

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_B6X-3St4i1M/TG2pg6L0BII/AAAAAAAAAso/q97gomw36VY/s1600/Luke_glove.jpg

    and Luke catches the V2 from R2, but then fights with a copper necked saber

    http://devan1.tripod.com/Pics/SKIFF2.JPG

    What is going on?! haha
     
  2. blewis17

    blewis17 Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,731
    Time to get the Popcorn ready!
     
  3. GeorgeC

    GeorgeC Well-Known Member

    Trophy Points:
    511
    There are at least 3 versions of Luke's lightsaber in ROTJ.

    Master Replicas released two of them...

    Parks has what is basically the stunt version for sale on his site. His version comes with a detachable blade.

    The stunt version was what was used early in the film... Its biggest scenes are during the Batlle of the Sarlac Pit on Tatooine. You get a good view of its emitter head before Artoo ejects it to Luke.

    Frankly, I think the stunt saber is in some ways more attractive than the "Hero" prop. It shows a more definite lineage to Obi-Wan Kenobi's Star Wars lightsaber as well as keeping more in line with the retro look of the Anakin/Vader sabers, too. The Hero prop looks almost too modern.

    The "Hero" version of the lightsaber is seen on Endor when Luke surrenders to the Imperials. You see Vader handle this version after the Imperial Officer gives it to him. It's probably the most-manufactured version of the ROTJ Luke lightsaber and is generally considered the definitive version of the handle.

    The V2, the very last screen-used lightsaber released by Master Replicas, appears during the final lightsaber between Luke and Vader. That saber handle is weird... There are stories that it originally appeared with an emitter head like the stunt saber but was modded later ("nipple" added to the emitter) to look more like the "Hero" version.

    Besides these saber handles, there were probably at least a few lightsaber handles cast of whatever materials they used back then (the Prequels were big on resin; the Original Trilogy used metal handles for practically everything I think). These were the "disposable" lightsabers.

    The technology for props has evolved to the point that only "Hero" props are done in metal. The rest of the props used for stunts/action scenes are usually made out of plastic/resin/whatever and are disposable. You don't want to damage valuable "Hero" props used for still photos or close-up scenes.
     
  4. Henry Jones

    Henry Jones New Member

    Trophy Points:
    16
    Do you have pics of the stunt saber?
    And is the Hero prop the copper necked one? I never really liked that one. I like the V2.
     
  5. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    The thin I'm lost on now, the stunt luke uses on the sail barge had a nipple on the emitter, and a bolted on control box. Looks a lot like the nippled-saber Alec Guinness used on film (part of the lightsaber duel where the blade disappears and sparks.) Looks like they painted the neck copper and bolted on a box to use.

    http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhar5la5Cf1qedqfdo1_400.jpg

    The other bladed stunt used in the death star and for lots of practices for esb has no nipple and looks like a wider emitter plate. (NASA saber) Same saber with an altered emitter? or two different bladed stunts?

    http://bonzuko.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/201009_fotos-curiosas-rodaje-star-wars11.jpg

    http://images17.fotki.com/v62/photos/9/976173/4001324/empire01-vi.jpg

    best one

    http://www.blueharvest.net/images/set/star/steel-sabers.jpg

    This is not regarding: the V2, hero used in close up, or the resin/rubber/whatever stunts shot out of R2D2. The saber hanging on luke's belt as he climbs up the sail barge looks light and crude, wood or resin.
     
  6. TylerHam

    TylerHam Well-Known Member

    Trophy Points:
    866
    I have a resin casting of what is THOUGHT to be the R2 luke saber -

    Its smaller than the stunt - I have watched the movie and it "looks" right but im no expert -
     
  7. Aussie66

    Aussie66 Member

    Trophy Points:
    180
    There's also a 4th. The "Yuma stunt" i believe it was referred to as :)
     
  8. Anakin Starkiller

    Anakin Starkiller Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,265
    The resin saber that was shot out of R2 was a resin casting of the shared stunt, not the hero. When the saber pops out of r2's dome, you can see the extra neck grove that is NOT on the hero.
    A lot of people think the saber was a casting of the hero because Elstree sold such a casting as authentic a while back. But this was false.
     
  9. skynet

    skynet Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    610
    Just another thing...It recently came to my mind, that I'll propably need a saber from you again Anakin :lol - they are top notch.
     
  10. Psab keel

    Psab keel Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,190
    I would check out the Parts of Star Wars website as they have a great write up on all of the different sabers, among many other famous Star Wars props.
     
  11. ep1972

    ep1972 Member

    Trophy Points:
    180
    Incorrect.
     
  12. scarf man

    scarf man Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,881
    Do tell. Care to elaborate on your bold statement?
    I beg to differ, and will state emphatically that Anakin Starkiller's statement is 100% fact.


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    The two above pictures are of the dubious saber made reference to by Anakin Starkiller.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2012
  13. Jet Beetle

    Jet Beetle Sr Member Gone but not forgotten.

    Trophy Points:
    2,147
    Not sure which of the three this is - but it's the one that NASA took into space. They had it on display there a few years back. Sorry for the poor pics but I was being hurried along and shooting through glass, but here ya go--
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Hope these help you.
     
  14. scarf man

    scarf man Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,881
    That is the shared stunt.

    Nice pics Jet Beetle!
     
  15. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    Those are GREAT pictures, thank you! That is the shared stunt, yes - Used as a stunt in A New Hope and then for practice behind the scenes and the lightsaber battle on the death star in Return of the Jedi. I hear now, that the Yuma stunts (yes there were at least 2 with longer and shorter blades or rods) were metal, and the only Luke sabers made especially for the third film. The rest were: This saber above for fighting and the V2 for static scenes. (obviously there were other resin/wood stunts and the "Pretty" one for the close up)

    As for Scarf man, I don't believe ep1972 was saying It was a cast of the hero instead...I hear a lot of people over analyze this prop.

    During filming they needed many copies of something that looked sort-of like this lightsaber, they needed them quick and cheaply. There was no control box, I'm not sure it was even exactly cast. From what I can tell (including the dull slightly bulged emitter) it was a resin and had roughly the same dimensions, but was very small and simple nonetheless. They most likely had many so they could shoot the take over and over without delay. I don't have exact proof, but I'm working off of who I've talked to and plain old common sense, something that seems to fall by the wayside sometimes on forums like these. I highly doubt that this prop was a precision cast piece with specific details, considering budget, time, and necessity in that specific scene.

    Back to that shared stunt, that is REALLY beat up, they really did a number re-painting that huh haha. (and I do see the odd edge now, suggesting the nipple was taken off.
     
  16. Knightsaber

    Knightsaber Well-Known Member

    Trophy Points:
    930
    Both the shared stunt and the V2 are made from the same mold. They have the same dimensions except the V2 has the nipple on the emitter. Both were used as bladed dueling sabers for Obi-Wan in ANH. The "hero" saber was only used in one shot: the "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber" shot. Other than that, every time you see Luke or anyone else handling the saber, it is the V2 or one of the stunt sabers.
     
  17. Hardcore

    Hardcore New Member

    Trophy Points:
    16
    really nice.:thumbsup
     
  18. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    Knightsaber,

    Yep, that is the general gist of things. The lightsaber shooting in Yuma, Arizona didn't include either of these, as Mark Hamil had a few metal stunt sabers that were new for Return of the Jedi. These had metal rods, nipples and were a little skinnier than the V2 and Shared stunt. The list is rather large for screen used props from this movie.

    EDIT: While I'm here I'll mock up what I know

    From A new hope:
    V2 - black scuffed static with graflex clamp
    Shared Stunt - Used for dueling, mostly death star and behind the scenes (pictures above) with graflex clamp
    (both above turned from wooden master copies made to look like Obi Wan's grenade hero saber but with rings and a flat smooth lower section - Thus how "Luke's" got it's shape.)

    Yuma metal stunt(s) - made later, for Jabba's Sail barge, seen in those shots
    (most likely where the famous color scheme happened. The V2 neck was a little yellow an they painted THIS neck solid copper color)

    Simpler resin copies - Used for shooting out of Air Cannon (R2D2)

    Some resin/wooden copy - hanging on Luke's belt when he climbs up sail Barge, possibly stuck in his belt before swinging. black/brown scuffed with a graflex clamp too most likely

    Pretty One - Known as the hero, either a metal or resin made (or a re-used Yuma that was cleaned up) very famous. Painted with the famous color scheme.

    *the Shared stunt in the pictures above got a new paint job after filming with this color scheme as well. may have been a little yellow/orange in the upper neck like V2 to begin with

    Crazy huh?

    the resin museum displays you see around with the clunky messed up control box most likely aren't real or at least never saw screen time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
  19. ep1972

    ep1972 Member

    Trophy Points:
    180
    Note: The lightsabers that were shot from the R2D2's dome did in fact have the control box molded as part of the saber. The control box was missing the adjustment clip, and the small triangles present on most other models. The emitter nipple was sanded to a smooth flat surface.

    The colors were base matte silver, gold/copper colored neck, black highlights between the grips, and gold/ copper solid paint on the control box grills, with no black highlights. According to Peter Diamond, Dicky Beers, and a few others present on the set, approximately half a dozen of these resin sabers were used for that particular sequence.

    Hope this helps.
     
  20. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    It actually does, Sorry guys!
     
  21. BAlinger15

    BAlinger15 Community Founder

    Trophy Points:
    835
    I believe what people call the "V2" is the one used by Alec Guinness during the duel.

    I believe the shared stunt was a rougher predecessor to the "V2", and was not used for the duel.

    Note that in Star Wars the "V2" has the same over-length Graflex clamp lever that you see when Hamill uses it in ROTJ (see photo in Making of SW book."

    I don't think there is any evidence for what is being called the "shared stunt" being used by Guinness in the first film. Perhaps it was used by Hamill as the bladed fighting saber during the UK shoot in ROTJ.

    Lonepigeon?

    Brandon
     
  22. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    I believe they were both used. The V2 had a black emitter, as we know from the scuffing and coloring. There are shots of Alec Guinness sparring with a prop that has a nipple but is pure silver on top. The shared stunt is said to have been ground off on top, but it was silver.
     
  23. BAlinger15

    BAlinger15 Community Founder

    Trophy Points:
    835
    Can you post any shots that show Guinness with a silver ended emitter?

    Brandon
     
  24. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    The attached photo is a little small and grainy, but shiny. The thread has the real clear picture I was talking about.

    The thread also turned into a spat between me and another member - complete miscommunication so please ignore that haha

    http://www.therpf.com/f9/obi-wan-anh-unnamed-stunt-135504/
     
  25. BAlinger15

    BAlinger15 Community Founder

    Trophy Points:
    835
    I don't think any of those photos show a silver end.

    The emitter on the saber Guinness uses is always distinctly black - on the sides and end.

    Brandon
     
  26. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    ...did you click that link?

    Anyways, i guess we're differing on opinion of color/material. That's okay.
     
  27. paplooo

    paplooo Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    1,036
    wow good topic..
    can somebody post some pictures of each sabers? like hero 1 , V2 , stunt etc etc...
    thanks a lot.!
     
  28. Anakin Starkiller

    Anakin Starkiller Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,265
    Can you provide any evidence to justify this statement?
     
  29. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
  30. paplooo

    paplooo Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    1,036
    Thanks !!
     
  31. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    Absolutely! I'm glad I could help :D I've got a couple more pictures for you!

    This is another picture of the V2 (Believe it or not! I didn't at first) As it was used in 1977.

    ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

    Everything was black except for the clamp and pommel, and it was (for the most part) rubbed off for Return of the Jedi.

    This is the "shared stunt," again (even though both this and the V2 were shared between movies) which lost it's "nipple" shortly after A New Hope, Mark Hamil using it to train for the climax of the movie. The other picture I had was training for ESB, with david prowse using it.

    http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l60om1qVj31qc823io1_500.jpg
     
  32. paplooo

    paplooo Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    1,036
    [​IMG]
    and this one?
     
  33. BAlinger15

    BAlinger15 Community Founder

    Trophy Points:
    835
    I believe the Bob Anderson photo shows the "V2" and I believe all SW / ESB photos showing sabers with blades attached show the "V2."

    The "shared stunt" I believe to have been used possibly as a dueling saber for the UK shoot on ROJ. Also possibly as a stunt belt saber in ROJ. I don't believe it was used at all, including training, during SW and ESB. If anyone has any real photographic evidence that it was, I'd be interested to see.

    Note that the rear section above the pommel in the training photos is always black, like the V2.

    Best,
    Brandon
     
  34. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001

    That is most definitely the V2! (and great picture, where'd you find that?!)

    And, okay I understand where you're coming from BAlinger15. The only shots we have that we claim to be the shared stunt are grey or fuzzy or whatever. The only point I have is this thing were debating over, (at least to me) has a very different neck than the thicker simpler V2, and the emitter (compared to things actually black like someone's pants) looks a lot lighter to me, it would blend in with the background if it wasn't.

    I do admit that is the first I've seen the V2 bladed after ANH. Adds a nice spon on things. Honestly though, the V2 was in 80% of the movie I agree there. I'm still a little unsure as well, the "shared stunt" from A new hope looks really delicate and thin and may not be this handle after all. I just don't see the black emitter in the behind the scenes photos.
     
  35. scarf man

    scarf man Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,881
  36. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    Yep, thanks scarf man, that is a fantastic thread. It confused me at first, so I thought separate photos with context may help.

    That last one in the main picture...is the one in the archives? was that ever used on screen?
     
  37. scarf man

    scarf man Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,881
    The first post in that thread may be a bit "concise" for newer members without a base knowledge of our (RPF) acronyms and terminology. Any suggestions are welcomed.

    That last pic (the one below) is from the Magic of Myth touring exhibit in the first half of the 00's.
    [​IMG]

    The above saber has been in numerous touring exhibits, and calls the Lucasfilm archives home.
    The saber did not appear on screen in it's current form, however it is believed to have been used in the deleted scenes portraying Luke tinkering under the control box of his newly constructed saber.
    It is generally believed that the above saber is the ISYHCANL saber redressed with added control box parts for the aforementioned deleted scene.

    ISYHCANL = "I see you have constructed a new lightasber"

    P.S. The pic posted by Paploo is from Empire, not Jedi, as lonepigeon stated in another thread.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  38. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    Oh, that makes much more sense, thank you!

    Yep, I can see the redressed idea, that emitter looks spot on but the control box was so * simple before.

    And thank you, that was my mistake about that picture, still cool though. i didn't know the V2 had life left in it to be bladed - everyone made it sound like it was a hollow busted up thing
     
  39. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,305
    So if this is a photo of the shared stunt during practise on ESB :

    [​IMG]

    then this must be a more elaborate close-up of the same :

    [​IMG]

    notice the same pants and part of Dave Prowse belt and also the lack of a graflex clamp on the midsection. Thus the shared stunt was used in practise sessions during production of ESB and is the same as seen here in Alec Guinness' hands on ANH with the graflex clamp still attached :

    [​IMG]

    So is this the same now as used by Mark Hamill seen here during ROTJ then?

    [​IMG]

    -Chaim
     
  40. BAlinger15

    BAlinger15 Community Founder

    Trophy Points:
    835
    Those first three photos (two practice ESB shots, one Guinness Star Wars shot) are all the V2. Notice the emitter is black as is the section above the pommel. The Graflex clamp was removable from the saber.

    The photo from ROTJ is not the V2, since it was being used as a belt saber at that point. It could be what people call the "Shared stunt".

    Again, IMO the "shared stunt" is not seen in Star Wars or during ESB practice, unless someone has a photo to show otherwise.

    Best,
    Brandon
     
  41. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001

    Chaim,

    Good call on the black and white closeup/esb practice being the same, you may be right. Although I'm 90% sure the one in the close up is the V2. As is the one with luke/vader at the end. Unless the shared stunt was painted black as well, I see no indication of the shared stunt here...never thought i'd say that. (I do believe it was used for the Death Star duel)

    unless the first color photo is the shared stunt (it's emitter isn't all that black) and different from the close up.
     
  42. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,681

    I agree with this, but one thing to consider is that the shared stunt seems to have been "cleaned up" for the first LFL archive exhibit in Japan (1995).
    I don't know if we can trust it's current look for identifying the prop in vintage photos. It may have looked more like the V2 at the time.
    I was surprised at how much other props were cleaned up (the Tantive IV was repainted back to it's ANH state). The archives today seems to have a much more strict "preserve as is" attitude.
     
  43. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,305
    As you can see here the neck and part of the emitter has clearly been repainted with copper paint . . .
    and the rest of the emitter used to be all black underneath that piece of chrome tape :

    [​IMG]

    So could the V2 now have been replicated after this same shared stunt with it's original black paint scheme?

    -Chaim
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  44. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001

    Good point as well. Maybe we'll have to look at distinct details, like the shape of the emitter, or certain physical aspects (like does this major scuffing match that scuffing) to distinguish the shared stunt from V2 in vintage photographs. it would make sense they were painted alike, they were both back up props for the same thing after all. Although there are many shots of Alec using something with a grey/silver emitter...either this was the shared stunt early in filming, painted black to match the V2 for later filming (does anyone know when scenes were shot?) and it was re-painted to look like Luke's for publicity....or there's some other explanation (another stunt, or the V2 has some more explaining to do :lol)

    EDIT: Sym-Cha my thoughts exactly. The only thing holding me back is what I said above, of there being a silver looking prop in A New Hope
     
  45. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,305
    You do realize that this shared stunt is a metal casting of another ... don't you?

    Here you can see the ridge (bottom left) on the rings section leftover from the casting proces :

    [​IMG]

    so perhaps the late Alec Guinness wielded another stunt saber which could have been casted
    several times as back-ups in case his stunt would break?

    -Chaim
     
  46. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    Of course, that thought did occur to me but no one else seemed to think there were more. Thank you!

    I don't quite see what you're talking about in the photo, but i do agree with everything, it makes sense :) then at least 2 were painted black in some way
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  47. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,305
    Here's what I'm talking about :

    [​IMG]

    Just to make myself absolutely clear I assume there may have been more then one casting of the original stunt during ROTJ since by then the budget would allow it. Does that mean there was more then one casting during ANH . . . I don't know for certain, however there could have been more, right?

    -Chaim
     
  48. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    Chaim, right, i Understand.

    And yes, now I see it, is that sort of like a seam mark that you would get in casting?

    EDIT: Also, what pictures do we have of the shared stunt and V2 from A New Hope now? That close up above of Alec holding it seems to be shaped like the shared stunt
     
  49. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    Another shot ESB, Shared stunt or V2?[​IMG]
     
  50. Sym-Cha

    Sym-Cha Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    3,305
    Indeed and I believe Anakin Starkiller is working on an exact lightsaber replica, seam and all but we haven't seen any progress yet :confused

    -Chaim
     

Share This Page