LOTR theme ripped off from Sibelius' 3rd symphony......

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DARTH SABER

Master Member
I noticed a very distinct LOTR que during the 8:59 mark and a few other times near the end.

However, I just noticed that same melody is also very similar to the theme from Uncharted: drakes fortune.... Also sounded a bit like the theme from Back to the Future...and a snippet from the Conan theme.
 
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Colin Droidmilk

Sr Member
The irony for me is that I never thought the LOTR soundtrack was anything special. Today I find the main theme was composed by one of my favourite classical composers, lol!

He also wrote the first line of Sunday Girl by Blondie about a hundred years before Chris Stein got round to it. 25 secs in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4eAsOZtkIk
 
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terryr

Sr Member
It happens many times. I guess composers don't think we listen to classical.

I have a song that has the Animal House theme in it. [Brahms - Academic Festival]
 

wannab

Sr Member
What's new?
John Williams "borrows" all the time as well.
If you listen to classical music you notice these things all the time.



Doug
 

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CJS

Well-Known Member
Aliens soundtrack, alot was ripped off from Holst: The Planets, especially Mars, Bringer of war. The planets has to be one of the most copied templates for sci fi fantasy movies ever. Has awesome spacey elements to it.
 

SmilingOtter

Master Member
Williams borrows, Horner borrows, they all borrow.

"Concerning Hobbits" and the hymn "This is My Father's World" start almost exactly the same...
 

Columbo

Active Member
Do composers sometimes stick very close to the pieces on the temp track because they know that hits the mood the director wants in a scene? Star Wars starts with Mars as well for instance. The theme for The Incredibles is very like the theme from OHMSS which we know was the temp track because its in the early trailer. The Alex North 2001 theme is similar to the piece on the temp track which of course was finally kept in the film. This must be happening all the time and so long as the temp music remains unknown then the new composer can take all the credit.
 

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Colin Droidmilk

Sr Member
Williams borrows, Horner borrows, they all borrow.

"Concerning Hobbits" and the hymn "This is My Father's World" start almost exactly the same...
Of course, but I'm surprised by the extent of the un-deviation in the LOTR phrase. There is a ton of Holst's and Stravinsky's textures and flavours in Star Wars but never an entire - and highly prominent - melody line lifted verbatim and presented as a main figure.
 

Colin Droidmilk

Sr Member
What's new?
John Williams "borrows" all the time as well.
If you listen to classical music you notice these things all the time.



Doug
Well, the practice is not new, I know, but that's no reason not to point out any particularly outrageous examples when we come across them... and this is one of the most outrageous I've ever encountered tbh, for reasons I outline in the above post.
 

Jamanticus

Well-Known Member
Could Shore's use of Sibelius be considered more of a musical shout-out? They're a lovely nine notes. Like a little wave to Sibelius every time the theme plays.
 

VilleLeskinen

Sr Member
Community Staff
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
It seems somewhat fitting since Tolkien was very much influenced by the Finnish national epic, Kalevala. :lol
 

Celtic007

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Aliens soundtrack, alot was ripped off from Holst: The Planets, especially Mars, Bringer of war. The planets has to be one of the most copied templates for sci fi fantasy movies ever. Has awesome spacey elements to it.
One great example of this is the Death Star run in A New Hope. Just before it explodes, it sounds just like the end of Mars Bringer of War.

Compare 6:56 -
Gustav Holst - The Planets - Mars, the Bringer of War - YouTube
to 8:07
Star Wars Episode IV Soundtrack - The Battle of Yavin - YouTube
 

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Colin Droidmilk

Sr Member
One great example of this is the Death Star run in A New Hope. Just before it explodes, it sounds just like the end of Mars Bringer of War.

Compare 6:56 -
Gustav Holst - The Planets - Mars, the Bringer of War - YouTube
to 8:07
Star Wars Episode IV Soundtrack - The Battle of Yavin - YouTube
There are also many more subtle Planets bits, such as the brief little quote from Saturn, Bringer of Old Age, to bring Holstian tragedy to the Destruction of Alderaan (more of an orchestration thing, this than an actual melody rip); a structural device - again, rather than an actual melody - from Venus is used as the robots' pod falls to Tatooine, a long descending run of notes over a stable chord ending on a shift up of the chord by one semitone for the last note, the effect of which, as in Venus, is one of warmth and grandeur. There are bits of Mercury and Jupiter in the running around the DS and the escape therefrom.

I think it highly appropriate that SW makes such use of Holst, not least because of the connection to myth they share ( though Holst insisted The Planets was about astrology, yes, astrology, and not mythic figures). Artistically, I have no problem with Williams' Holst steals. But I'm a bit - and only a bit, mind - uncomfortable with Williams receiving total credit for every note we hear in that score.

And yes, Sibelius is appropriate for LOTR too. I suppose my interest in having these rips pointed out is that we - and the world's viciously proprietorial copyright owners - understand what we're listening to. For instance the soundtrack of LOTR, including the Sibelius phrase, is copyrighted material, but no way in hell should that phrase become the intellectual property of the owners of that score. In short, in such a clear case as the Sibelius, a way should be found to give the classical composer a credit. In SW, though, the Holst lifts are more indirect, and a credit to Holst would be too cumbersome...hmm, where to draw the line...
 

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