Legal Question regarding the Junkyard Forum...

[Aegis159]

Ok a thought came to mind here recently regarding the Junkyard forum and transactions that take place there.

With registration being opened again recently, we've seen a large influx of new members joining us in the forums. This is a good thing, as new thoughts and ideas (and some that have been hashed over to death, hehe) come with the new members. However, I've noticed that quite a few of these new members are young... Under 18 years old young. This brought to mind a question pertaining to the transactions that take place in the junkyard.

Should the Junkyard Forum have an age requirement for buying and selling materials??

Ebay, Yahoo Auctions, and pretty much any of the other online selling houses that I've come across all have age restrictions on who can buy and sell on their sites. The main reason being that anyone under the age of 18 cannot enter into a legally binding contract.
Now I understand that when we buy and sell things here in the Junkyard for most of us it's more like a Flea Market/Boot Sale atmosphere... simple buying and selling with very minimal interaction. However there are quite a few things that are bought and sold through the Junkyard that are a considerable amount of money. Not to mention the amount of threads regarding bad sellers that we've all seen and not having many options when trying to get a refund from these vagrants.

So the question again is should there be an age restriction on buying and selling in the Junkyard Forum?

Discuss..

Cheers..

 

[Gigatron]

While it is a good idea, for safety and security reasons for both buyer and seller, how do we verify someone's age? I know noone ever lies on the internet ( ), so do we just take everyone at their word?

Can't very well ask people to submit credit card info or some form of ID. I guess you can ask them to post ebay account IDs. They're completely public anyway and ebay has already done the proper background check.

Other than though, beats me.

-Fred

 

[The Manlet]

i wouldnt worry to much about it what person under 18 has a few hundred bucks to throw around?
though it is a good idea. To have an age limit i'd hate to be the guy on this fourm rip off by a 10 year old :lol

 

[rocketeer25]

That's a very good question, and something the staff talks about on occasion. We'll want Rick (JY Mod) to chime in here when he has a minute, but here's my 2 cents

The issue that always comes up is how do we positively identify who is a minor, and who is not? Over the public internet, it is almost impossible to verify this kind of information. There are a couple of little things that we could do, but overall, they are not very reliable, and depend on the honesty of the person registering.

We're just an internet hobby board, and don't quite have the resources of Ebay.

Remember that the JY is like a flea-market. It is the responsibility of the seller and the buyer to come to terms and complete any transaction. Both parties should perform due-diligence before sending money and/or items to the other person. If you don't know the other person, ask around... look at the other person's posts to see what they are like. That's one of the reasons why we don't let new members post in the JY. We make them have 90 days and at least 20 posts under their belt first. It gives them time to establish a presence on the board... to start building a reputation.

BTW... just a word of advice. You need to be careful of some adults out there too. I don't think we've ever had to ban a minor for bad transactions.

 

[SurferGeek]

I remember this being discussed awhile back and most came to the conclusion that if the members are truthful and each know the other's ages then it comes down to personal choice as to whether or not to do business with each other. Several stated that they won't sell or buy from someone under 18 as it opens up too many issues, leaast of which is having to deal with thier parents if the deal goes south. Didn't we see something like this happen about a year or two ago?

How will you know for sure? You won't, just as no one here wants to send in two forms of picture ID to be part of the RPF, you won't know for sure the age of the person you are dealing with in the JY. Just don't throw money at a seller without asking questions, getting assurances and having them provide positive, verifiable contact information.

Yeah, there is just as much a chance to have a bad transaction dealing with those "of age" and even sellers with a long tradition of good transactions have been known to screwing up so the old axiom still applies... Caveat Emptor

 

[Aegis159]

<div class='quotetop'>(rocketeer25 @ Jul 12 2006, 10:46 AM) [snapback]1279287[/snapback]</div>

That's a very good question, and something the staff talks about on occasion. We'll want Rick (JY Mod) to chime in here when he has a minute, but here's my 2 cents

The issue that always comes up is how do we positively identify who is a minor, and who is not? Over the public internet, it is almost impossible to verify this kind of information. There are a couple of little things that we could do, but overall, they are not very reliable, and depend on the honesty of the person registering.

We're just an internet hobby board, and don't quite have the resources of Ebay.

Remember that the JY is like a flea-market. It is the responsibility of the seller and the buyer to come to terms and complete any transaction. Both parties should perform due-diligence before sending money and/or items to the other person. If you don't know the other person, ask around... look at the other person's posts to see what they are like. That's one of the reasons why we don't let new members post in the JY. We make them have 90 days and at least 20 posts under their belt first. It gives them time to establish a presence on the board... to start building a reputation.

BTW... just a word of advice. You need to be careful of some adults out there too. I don't think we've ever had to ban a minor for bad transactions.
[/b]

Hehehe well I'm not sure if that was directed at me specifically or was spoken in generalities... so I'll just take it personally

It's not about having to have the resources of Ebay, it's more about buyer and seller protection.
Basically what I'm questioning here is should there be more buyer and seller protections built into the process?? Things like "as is - no warranty" or something along those lines being required terminology for sales. or being able to set a time limit for being paid for an item before the prospective purchaser loses their slot and it's offered to the public for sale again....

A big question for whomever moved this here to the suggestion box is..... why? I was posting this as a question to the general members, and while I appreciate that a link was kept in the original forum, I don't think it will get anywhere near as much responses here as it would have on the main forum..... and you KNOW that that link will drop faster than lead......

 

[rocketeer25]

<div class='quotetop'></div>

A big question for whomever moved this here to the suggestion box is..... why? I was posting this as a question to the general members, and while I appreciate that a link was kept in the original forum, I don't think it will get anywhere near as much responses here as it would have on the main forum[/b]

No worries.

New Members can't see the OT Forum. I thought your question and the discussion that followed should be available to be read by everyone, especially since you referenced the new members in your post. I left the link in the OT Forum so that people can follow it here.

<div class='quotetop'></div>

With registration being opened again recently, we've seen a large influx of new members joining us in the forums. This is a good thing, as new thoughts and ideas (and some that have been hashed over to death, hehe) come with the new members. However, I've noticed that quite a few of these new members are young... Under 18 years old young.[/b]

 

[exoray]

<div class='quotetop'></div>

Can't very well ask people to submit credit card info or some form of ID.[/b]

One word "liability" everyday you hear about ID theft within big companies, I would suspect the RPF doesn't even want to go anywhere near this area...

<div class='quotetop'></div>

I guess you can ask them to post ebay account IDs. They're completely public anyway and ebay has already done the proper background check.[/b]

What verification? What background check?

You only need a valid email account to open an Ebay account, nothing more... No verification at all...

All in all this is the Internet and anyone can be anyone, you can pretend to verify all you want...

How hard do you really think it is to photoshop an email sized ID picture? Or even photoshop a fake credit card? I would say under 5 minutes with even basic photoshop skills...

 

[Kris]

<div class='quotetop'>(exoray @ Jul 13 2006, 01:03 AM) [snapback]1279680[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>

Can't very well ask people to submit credit card info or some form of ID.[/b]

One word "liability" everyday you hear about ID theft within big companies, I would suspect the RPF doesn't even want to go anywhere near this area...

<div class='quotetop'></div>

I guess you can ask them to post ebay account IDs. They're completely public anyway and ebay has already done the proper background check.[/b]

What verification? What background check?

You only need a valid email account to open an Ebay account, nothing more... No verification at all...

All in all this is the Internet and anyone can be anyone, you can pretend to verify all you want...

How hard do you really think it is to photoshop an email sized ID picture? Or even photoshop a fake credit card? I would say under 5 minutes with even basic photoshop skills...
[/b][/quote]

True, I was 16 when I registered for eBay.. I just lied about my age by selecting 1984 instead of 1986. It worked, and I bought items.

If I go on a forum, and tell everyone I'm a texan woman of 50 years, they will believe me. That's the thing. So the word is all you can really have, how truthful that word is, depends just on that very person who is giving his/her word.

 

[madphisto]

And now the other way round - I'm turning 30 next week but still got no credit card .

 

[Darkknight0667]

<div class='quotetop'>(rocketeer25 @ Jul 12 2006, 11:53 AM) [snapback]1279349[/snapback]</div>

New Members can't see the OT Forum. [/b]

They can't? Huh. Next thing you'll be telling us is that they can't post in that Forum either. Then I guess the last post in this OT Forum thread doesn't really exist, does it? Must be those mushrooms I had last night.

 

[Wake]

<div class='quotetop'>(Darkknight0667 @ Jul 14 2006, 11:08 AM) [snapback]1280528[/snapback]</div>

They can't? Huh. Next thing you'll be telling us is that they can't post in that Forum either. Then I guess the last post in this OT Forum thread doesn't really exist, does it? Must be those mushrooms I had last night.
[/b]

Well it doesn't exist for me...

There is a big difference between eBay and the Junkyard. Winning an eBay auction is a legally binding contract, whereas buying and selling here is just done on trust. Therefore whereas eBay might need to try and verify ages (at least of their sellers) I don't think that the RPF needs to get involved. The "using the Junkyard" document is pretty clear about the board itself not being responsible for sales.

Cheers,

Wake

 

[KarlBud420]

<div class='quotetop'>(Darkknight0667 @ Jul 14 2006, 06:08 AM) [snapback]1280528[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(rocketeer25 @ Jul 12 2006, 11:53 AM) [snapback]1279349[/snapback]

New Members can't see the OT Forum. [/b]

They can't? Huh. Next thing you'll be telling us is that they can't post in that Forum either. Then I guess the last post in this OT Forum thread doesn't really exist, does it? Must be those mushrooms I had last night.
[/b][/quote]

Chances are that the post was originally in another forum when the new users posted their replies and then was moved to the OT area.

I had the exact same question about this a few months back.

And send some of those psilocybes my way. It's been way too long since I spent an evening among the stars. :lol

Bruce

 

[SithLord]

Interesting that new members cannot see OT...is that the only forum they cannot see?

I agree about the rules being very specific for the Junkyard in terms of the liability not being with the forum itself in the event a transaction goes sour, although the RPF does make every effort to ensure that members themselves are accountable in the event something does go wrong...