Latex or silicone?

[Xalener]

I'm making a pred mask, and need to know what would be the most convinient material to make a mask of. Everyone uses latex around here, and I haven't seen many silicone masks. Is there a reason for that, or is it that so few people even thought of using silicone? Does it react badly when in contact with plaster or something?

Also, are there any pictures of molds people have of their latex predator heads? I just want to see how people have gone about the mandables. I know cutting them off the sculpt is an option, I just want to know if there are alternatives.

 

[Unforgiven Hunter]

I think one of the main reasons, people don't make a silicone mask is the cost of the silicone.

-Chris

 

[Xalener]

Yeah, I figured that, but what if hypothetically that weren't a factor?

 

[japgoth]

Yeah, I figured that, but what if hypothetically that weren't a factor?

Well I gathered from most production videos i have seen with using silicon they don't use plaster, seems to use something call Plasti-Paste. Also does seem to be more work needed to create a mold.

heres a guide that I have managed to find:

http://www.smooth-on.com/gallery.php?galle...&cPath=1198

 

[Uratz]

You should go with casting Latex.
Where Silicone is used it must be a specific type of casting silicone rather than Mold making silicone.
Casting Latex is easier to paint with than silicone. Casting Latex is still cheaper.

I've asked thesePeople at CFX about their nice but expensive silicone masks and whether I can paint them raw
and they pretty much told me NO and it needs special paints to make it stick to silicone.

For casting silicone I think a professional and someone who knows a lot of about the material like
Stan Winston Studios in the original Predator movie where they did use silicone to make the mask and AVPR also used it.
In AVP foamed latex was used.

 

[TuaCathach]

R

You should go with casting Latex.
Where Silicone is used it must be a specific type of casting silicone rather than Mold making silicone.
Casting Latex is easier to paint with than silicone. Casting Latex is still cheaper.

I've asked thesePeople at CFX about their nice but expensive silicone masks and whether I can paint them raw
and they pretty much told me NO and it needs special paints to make it stick to silicone.

For casting silicone I think a professional and someone who knows a lot of about the material like
Stan Winston Studios in the original Predator movie where they did use silicone to make the mask and AVPR also used it.
In AVP foamed latex was used.

Hate to burst your bubble mike in P1 stan did not use silicone. Might wanna re check your info

 

[Uratz]

R
Hate to burst your bubble mike in P1 stan did not use silicone. Might wanna re check your info

Well I "checked my info" and Hate to burst your bubble but ...
Colin Strause himself said in the AVPR featurette Primitive Design: Creating the Predator (at 6minutes 24 seconds into the video):
"for Predator skin of the mask they went back to Silicones like in the Original Predator mask cuz u can't get the translucency with Latex."

If that is still wrong then I guess the Strause brothers, ADI and I are also wrong ???

But anyway thanks for keeping me on me toes! I appreciate it.

Happy Mold Making!

 

[Usurper]

For casting silicone I think a professional and someone who knows a lot of about the material like
Stan Winston Studios in the original Predator movie where they did use silicone to make the mask and AVPR also used it.
In AVP foamed latex was used.

R

Hate to burst your bubble mike in P1 stan did not use silicone. Might wanna re check your info

Well I "checked my info" and Hate to burst your bubble but ...
Colin Strause himself said in the AVPR featurette Primitive Design: Creating the Predator (at 6minutes 24 seconds into the video):
"for Predator skin of the mask they went back to Silicones like in the Original Predator mask cuz u can't get the translucency with Latex."

If that is still wrong then I guess the Strause brothers, ADI and I are also wrong ???

But anyway thanks for keeping me on me toes! I appreciate it.

Happy Mold Making!

Ok unless im mistaken and please feel free to correct me , but TUATH said P1 , of which "Colin Strause HIMSELF " had **** all to do with.

P1 was Latex, and i think it was mentioned a few years ago they used BALLOON latex for the mouth, NOT Silicone. ( carlart gave me this info years ago, so theres my disclaimer opcorn: )

so pop goes your bubble also.

 

[Uratz]

OK Great! Balloon Pop bubble Latex it is! Colin Strause and I both had f*ck all to do with is Wrong and so am I

OK you guys win! Please claim your Predator Trivia Nerd Prizes at the counter...

opcorn:

 

[Usurper]

Mike not trying to piss in your pool, but this info is pretty vague, hopefully some concrete info will pop up , because until now i had never heard of silicone being used in the film, just a lighter/thiner latex for the animatronics.

and id rather be a nerd than a prop pimp.

 

[Uratz]

Mike not trying to piss in your pool, but this info is pretty vague, hopefully some concrete info will pop up , because until now i had never heard of silicone being used in the film, just a lighter/thiner latex for the animatronics.

and id rather be a nerd than a pimp. opcorn:

That right yo! You is a Pimp daddy! Nah its all good.

That's what forums are all about, for us Nerds to douche it out.
Especially " Predator Movie Trivia/knowledge" which I think we seriously need a section for in this BBS.

Anyway in the quest for furthering our knowledge and bringing the gap of ignorance in terms of Predator Trivia
I've wrote an email to Steve Wang himself to enlighten us folks in the dark. There's no point in arguing over vague information
we all here to learn and grow and hold hands with our fellow Hunters...

*Blades Retracted* *Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra* *His Arms Wide*

 

[Usurper]

Steve will have 2 emails then as ive already contacted him and Legacy Effects.

but im confident it was latex and Strause is talking out of his ASS!

 

[carlart]

I can't exactly remember where I saw it, but I was pretty sure the P1 head was latex with balloon grade (soft) latex for the mandibles. The suit was foam latex---no doubt about it. I'm not 100% sure on the head, Mr. Wang can definitely enlighten us for sure on that one.

 

[ptgreek]

*email sent to my friend Angela at Legacy*

 

[Xalener]

What have I done? lol.

So, If I use latex I HAVE to have an oven or some sort of heating chamber for it right?

How could I make one? Assuming a box with some alluminum foil and a lamp won't do the trick...

 

[Unforgiven Hunter]

You don't have to cook regular latex, only foam latex. These are two completely different kinds of latex.

-Chris

 

[Mannowar]

I'll likely be making the switch to silicone for maybe one mask project next year. It is quite a bit of added expense. Silicone for molding, Dragon Skin for casting, special silicone paint and even special foam for support... But after seeing multiple examples of masks, hands, etc... in the supply shops here in LA and talking to those who work soley with silicone as their medium for casting, they've convinced me to at least toy around with it on a project.

The upside. More realistic by leaps and bounds... Life expectancy of the casting and mold... From the examples that I've seen (a half dozen or so masks and several pairs of different hands) you can acheive some spectacular paint schemes... Flexibility... Since the working mandible system seems to be a hot topic in threads this week, if someone could come up with a nice functional system, it would work very well with the flexibility of the silicone.

The downside. Cost. If your goal is to sell castings, you're probably best to stick with latex. Most people aren't going to want to drop the amount of money that you'll need just to recoup your cost on materials unless it's an absolutely spectacular mask, and even then it would only be the very serious buyer or collector. You can't mold with plaster. It's too porous and your silicone would seep right down into every pore available. So silicone molds are recommended. Molding something the size of a head will require quite a bit of silicone in and of itself, so you're talking quite a bit of expense just on the front end of the project, before it even really begins... then the silicone needed for casting. The other thing to consider in expense is that once you mold your sculpt in silicone, you can never use that clay again for anything other than a silicone mold. If you use it for a sculpt that's to be plaster molded for latex, you'll likely get some curing problems in your latex... Silicone and latex don't like each other very much. I keep two seperate batches of clay that never come into contact with one another and are clearly marked so as not be confused (though it would be pretty hard to confuse a box with 100 lbs of Kleen Klay with a box with 10 lbs. of it I guess...lol)

So, if cost isn't an issue with you and you're only planning on having the mask for your own collection or suit, go for it. But, if you're hoping to sell castings, I'd really recommend staying in the latex realm, as even in a good economy, I likely wouldn't spend the extra coin on a silicone mask. When I eventually get around to doing a silicone mask down the road, I'll go into it knowing that it will just be for my personal suit build projects and not likely to be much of an outside sales item.

Hope that helps.

 

[Usurper]

Sorry i have not replied quicker, Steve got back to me yesterday but my internet went **** up late afternoon so i could not post his reply.

anyway back to the silicone claims.

Im happy to report silicone claims smell of ****, thats because the people that claim slicone were talking out their ass ! cough*Strause*cough etc



reply from steve " it was foam latex with dental dam for the inside of the mouth."



Im sure you had the same reply Mike, and can confirm, but if not and if you wish i can take a screen grab for you.

and Dental dam is a rectangular sheet of latex used in dentistry by the way

 

[Uratz]

Sorry i have not replied quicker, Steve got back to me yesterday but my internet went **** up late afternoon so i could not post his reply.
anyway back to the silicone claims.
Im happy to report silicone claims smell of ****, thats because the people that claim slicone were talking out their ass ! cough*Strause*cough etc
reply from steve " it was foam latex with dental dam for the inside of the mouth."
Im sure you had the same reply Mike, and can confirm, but if not and if you wish i can take a screen grab for you.

and Dental dam is a rectangular sheet of latex used in dentistry by the way

Yup same thing. there its settled. Finally we know. You can't believe what some people say on the DVD's sometime you gotta get to the source!

Then is the Wolf head made of Foamed Latex as well or Silicone? WTF is Strause talking about?

Oh Funny thing Steve ends with the answer "Now go to Sleep"

 

[Xalener]

So I guess I'm using latex. lol.

Ques#2: What about molds? Does anyone have pics of some of their molds? down what sides to you split them? Do you have to wreck the mouth to pull them off the sculpt?