Laserdisc to dvd Star wars conversion

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Movie Talk' started by Megatron, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. Megatron

    Megatron Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Look for any info on The Star Wars laserdisc to DVD conversion project.
    Preserving the Original Trilogy on DVD..
     
  2. SSgt Burton

    SSgt Burton Sr Member

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    Ummm...

    Isn't that what the extras disc of the 2 disc dvds of the SE Original Trilogy is? The laserdisc copy of the non special editions converted to dvd?


    Kevin
     
  3. James Kenobi 1138

    James Kenobi 1138 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    As awesome as it is, you know talking about pirated media on the RPF is not allowed.
     
  4. Timmythekid

    Timmythekid Sr Member

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    Honestly curious - this came up last time there was a discussion about Harmy's project, and the thread was locked. The stated rules over at OriginalTrilogy.com are that you can't download anything you don't already own the sources for. In the case of the LDs, that means owning the LDs. In the case of something like the DeSed's, that's the blu-rays. If you already own the sources, but someone has just re-arranged them into a more pleasing order for you, does that still count as piracy? You've still paid for the use of those items.
     
  5. robn1

    robn1 Master Member

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    The LDs look better than the DVD versions. I'd love to copy mine to my PC and maybe upscale them to HD, but neither of my LD players work.
     
  6. Mechinyun

    Mechinyun Sr Member

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  7. Megatron

    Megatron Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I own the LDs and the vhs and the dvd and the Blu rays..but the LDs are the only ones not molested..
     
  8. robn1

    robn1 Master Member

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    Harmy had a neat idea but the work is flawed. I can plainly see where he did some erasing to remove the SE parts, and some shots are recreated using still photos.
     
  9. Michael Bergeron

    Michael Bergeron Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Beats watching the alternative...
     
  10. Megatron

    Megatron Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    its more of a fan reedit which is a strange area if you think about it.
    not just a straight rip from the LDs
    and its not for profit but because someone will not release the versions from 77 and 80's.

    I wish some one would fix all the Transformer movies:darnkids
     
  11. deadbolt

    deadbolt Sr Member

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    Actually, this isn't considered pirating at all. Making backups of legally owned films and games isn't illegal if it's for personal use. But it is illegal to post or download the film on the internet, and definitely illegal if you sell copies to anyone.


    -Carson
     
  12. Riceball

    Riceball Sr Member

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    This brings up something that I've always been curious about; when Lucas claims that he doesn't have re-mastered masters of the untouched original trilogy, how can that be? I'm no expert in re-mastering of films but it would seem to me that they would re-master the film first before doing any editing, cleaning, and adding of new effects, it just seems logical doing it that way. So if that is the process shouldn't Lucas then have a fully re-mastered version of the original trilogy sans new edits, footage, and effects unless he tossed that master out keeping only the reworked master.
     
  13. cboath

    cboath Master Member

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    You'd think so.

    However, if they just updated and fixed the pieces that were cut into the original film and just cut them into a new release, then there wouldn't be a 1977 edit. There'd just be the current edit.

    That said, when you turn a billion dollar profit on the prequels before they hit the screen (merchandising deals) then you'd think you'd have the money to spend to re-cut a 1977 version with no issue. It's more about want to than anything else I think.
     
  14. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    Because they claim they added the edits directly to the original source master they created.
     
  15. Treadwell

    Treadwell Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The 1997 SE spliced the new elements into the original negative. So the negative for SW has many, many parts swapped out of it, technically making Lucas correct. However, at LFL they never throw celluloid away. They have the trims, they have alternate elements. It would take a new restoration to clean it up, but the original theatrical version could be rebuilt. It is not destroyed. It's just in pieces.
     
  16. Dpp1978

    Dpp1978 Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't a master they cut up, it was the original negative.

    They did it, at least in part, for good reason: it had to be treated and cleaned. And as different parts of the film were shot on different film stocks, each one had to be given a different treatment.

    More troubling to the restoration effort was the fact that all the effects shots had degraded to the point of being useless.

    When copying photographically every generation away from the negative you go brings a reduction in resolution and an increased amount of grain. With some of the effects shots going through the printer several time it soon begins to add up. This is especially problematic when cutting between something shot in the studio and a multi element optical. You go from a relatively sharp, fine grained image to a soft grainy one. It is jarring to see.

    To mitigate this ILM used larger negative area VistaVision cameras (larger negative = more resolution + smaller grain = more genrations of printing before the image becomes unacceptably soft and grainy) and printed on reversal stock so they could lose a generation of printing and with it a generation of image degradation.

    This reversal stock was cut straight into the negative, and unfortunately was even less archive safe than the rest of the film. Whereas the camera negative was bad but salvageable the effects shots were a total loss.

    All the effects shots (those which weren't completely redone) had to be recreated from the original camera elements, and re-composited. This was done digitally and the results were cut in to the negative.

    The negative as it exists today is the Special Edition.

    The original shots which weren't restored would have to be recreated from the original camera elements or taken from a lesser source such as an inter-positive or inter-negative, should any in good enough condition exist.

    It would be a lot of work, and most people would thing entirely worthwhile. However most people's opinions are worth nothing when it comes to this issue. Only one man's opinion counts, and he doesn't want to do it.
     
  17. Adam C.

    Adam C. Well-Known Member

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  18. Timmythekid

    Timmythekid Sr Member

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    I can think of one shot where it's an issue in SW (the Mos Eisley roadblock where the ronto was removed), and apart from that the stuff is just about invisible. Now, OCPs old versions, those were pretty blatant, stuttery, and a little crude, but looking at Harmy's v2 you'd be very hard pressed to see the composites.

    SW and ESB are pretty horrifying to watch as the SEs (the colour is waaaaay off, the changes are bewildering), but honestly for RotJ I'd be perfectly happy if someone would do a quick colour pass and replace the audio during Vader's redemption with the HD broadcast audio.
     
  19. phez

    phez Sr Member

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    I think I just used an older version of something like this to convert mine (it was the high end version at the time).

    Roxio Easy VHS to DVD - Walmart.com

    Use the yellow red and white cables instead of using the S-video (less grain in the dark areas. The down side is that the audio is not full quality. I seem to remember trying to get the AC3 audio track copied over but it would get out of sync with the video and I never managed to solve that problem (it has been about 5 years so I don't remember exactly what I did). I can't remember what I used for the encoding software but I do remember that you had to hack the config file to black out the the top and bottom black bars to reduce the size of the encode.

    They come out pretty good (not close to blu-ray) but good. There may be a better way to get the direct digital and convert it but not that I could find.

    As far as the copyright, you can copy (backup :lol) the video to DVD as long as you do not distribute it in any way shape or form. Also you need to keep the original media (Laser disks). If you copy them and then sell the Laser Disks your right to have a back up copy go with them.

    Sorry this is not a heck of a lot of help but figured it might at least get you started.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
  20. robn1

    robn1 Master Member

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    I have a capture device and software for my PC, I use it to record HDTV all the time. I just need a functioning LD player :unsure
     
  21. Etewaf

    Etewaf Active Member

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    Perhaps this is a bit naive, but does anyone else think that almost immediately after George Lucas dies those who end up taking over the companies will set in motion the remastering process? What better way to capitalize on his death than by releasing the true original versions of the films? Anyone know if there's ever been an official word on what will happen to the franchise when he passes away?

    I personally can't even fully enjoy the Star Wars universe anymore because of all the controversy surrounding his constant edits and reedits. Heck, didn't he even re edit those Ewok films to a certain extent? Not to mention that once these discs go out of print you end up paying premium prices for them. Jeesh.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
  22. Michael Bergeron

    Michael Bergeron Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    One can only dream...

    Not holding my breath though!
     
  23. deadbolt

    deadbolt Sr Member

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    Just noticed this, coincidentally one of the first few links that popped up in google searching for 'laserdisc to dvd' too.

    The Star Wars Laserdisc to DVD project

    From what that site says the 2006 Theatrical editions are the superior versions..Wish I knew about them before today, I had several chances to get those particular individual and trilogy releases when they first came out!! :facepalm


    -Carson
     
  24. Timmythekid

    Timmythekid Sr Member

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    Not naive at all in fact. Itès become pretty clear that a LFL and at Fox, thereès just one guy holding that up - even that sycophant McCallum has said he would like to see the originals get release, but itès Georgeès call. It WILL happen, thereès too much money on the table for it to not happen.
     
  25. Megatron

    Megatron Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    His daughter is already taking over the company now
     
  26. Timmythekid

    Timmythekid Sr Member

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    How do you figure? She's occassionally a writer on Clone Wars, but I seem to remeber that writing is really where her head is at, and specifically not stepping into her dad's shoes. Whatever else he might be, Lucas is a very savy businessman and I would be very surpirsed to see him hand over the reins of a multi-faceted corporate empire to someone with no business experience. I would not be surpised to see him somehow ensure his kids receive an income stream from LFL in perpetuity, but control?
     
  27. Megatron

    Megatron Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    ask the lawyers
     
  28. deadbolt

    deadbolt Sr Member

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    You know, since the theatrical releases are out there in at least laserdisc/dvd quality, Lucas should re-release them on blu-ray except with all three on one disk since they'll easily fit.

    Now that would be wonderful to have! :love


    -Carson
     
  29. Megatron

    Megatron Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    laserdisc sound still beats Blu-ray
    they compressed the sounds in DVD and Blu-ray
     
  30. Timmythekid

    Timmythekid Sr Member

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    DVD is pretty limited and compressed, but BD master Audio is uncomressed, or at least lossless, no? In any event I've seen VHS, LD, DVD, LD2DVD rips, HDTV, and BD presentations and as far as technical abilities, BD is superior for my money - superior colour fidelity, superior resolution, superior audio presentation. It's just a shame that the program that's been put on the format is so messed up.
     
  31. Megatron

    Megatron Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    trust me LD sounds better it raw sound..all the new pressings are form a new audio source which has lost some of its higher original sounds..If you get a chance to hear a LD on a LD player that has the high end sound out vers a BLU ray you will notice the difference..
    They have put a lot of hype in BLU ray..to be honest its still not the same high rez of a movie you see in the theater or shot on a digital camera..its still compressed in resolution just no tvs out there that can show that rez yet and the size of the movies would be huge.. The size of Wall-e movie format is huge they even talk about the program the have to down sample the movie for Blu ray on there disc..
     
  32. Jeyl

    Jeyl Master Member

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    I myself would love to take over the reigns of Star Wars. I would produce a BluRay set that would put the Blade Runner set to absolute shame. An impossible task, but one I would love to try and make.
     
  33. wannab

    wannab Sr Member

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    So what I got out of this thread (and link) so far is...

    with what is available, the best version of the original release would be, the laser disc (raw) sound added to the DVD video that has been processed to be made anamorphic. That about it?





    Doug
     
  34. wannab

    wannab Sr Member

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    AMEN!





    Doug
     
  35. micdavis

    micdavis Master Member

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    I just play my laser discs (or their back-ups, and sometimes I give those away too). You guys should have planned ahead. I did.
     
  36. Megatron

    Megatron Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    the two words that make Laser discs owners cry "Laser Rot"
     
  37. wannab

    wannab Sr Member

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    ...but the DVD is better video quality than the LD (see the link earlier) so we are ahead on that front. We just need the LD sound and we are golden.



    Doug
     
  38. Darth Lars

    Darth Lars Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Copying a movie from a media that you own to another media and keeping it to yourself is considered "fair use" in US and most elsewhere. It is the act of giving it to others that is "piracy".
    Then, that many DVDs and other media come with text that tells you that all copying would be forbidden is another matter.. Such text often go beyond the law.

    There are different editions of LD and DVD.
    The 2006 DVD editions had original versions on the second discs, and those were made from the same video tapes as the Definite Collection laser discs. The image quality on those DVDs should be better than the respective LDs.
    However, there is some temporal smoothing in these copies that are not seen in others.

    There is a rumour that a colour-separated copy (separate reel for red, green and blue) of the the unmodified first movie exists, either in Lucasfilm's archive or owned by GL himself. Colour-separation means that the colours have not faded like on common colour film stock. Let's hope.
     
  39. Timmythekid

    Timmythekid Sr Member

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    No it isn't. It may be sourced from the same master tapes, but it seems to have been transferred to DVD via being run over by a forklift. It's non-anamorphic, heavily compressed (remember it's in essence a second generation copy of the master, not the master itself), and smells of poo. Okay, the last part I may have partly made up. In any event, it's better than the rips of the LD, but not better than the LDs themselves.
     
  40. wannab

    wannab Sr Member

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    Looking at the comparison pics, it looks like the DVD is better to me. You just need to convert the DVD to anamorphic, add the LD sound and you have the best of "what's available". Gotta go with what I saw in the pics provided in that link. If you can post some visual evidence to the contrary, I'm willing to sway the other way. :thumbsup



    Doug
     
  41. robn1

    robn1 Master Member

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    But we have no way of knowing how that rip was done. My memory may be faulty (in fact I know it is :) ) but I seem to recall the LDs looking better than the DVD version.

    If I had a working player, I'd copy the LD to my PC, and upscale it to 1080. I've seen players on ebay and I'll get one eventually.
     
  42. wannab

    wannab Sr Member

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    Like I said, I'm willing to be swayed (by visual evidence). :thumbsup

    I'd like to end up with the best presentation (however it is achieved), as I doubt we will ever get anything better than what is already available. [Please George, make me eat my words.]





    Doug
     
  43. Megatron

    Megatron Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    If you want a great player the PIONEER CLD-D703 LASERDISC COMPACT DISC CD CDV LD PLAYER is the way to go..I did a lot of research. Pioneer is the king when it comes to LD players.. oh and they still make LDs in Japan its not a dead media there..:darnkids

    info links
    Laserdisc Guide | Moe's Home Theater

    Pioneer DVL - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    LaserDisc Database - Welcome to the LaserDisc Database
     
  44. Megatron

    Megatron Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    maybe this should be called Laser Discs wars
     
  45. Timmythekid

    Timmythekid Sr Member

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    For screen comparisons, I'd direct you to the now defunct X0 project website. Even their raw captures blew the bonus discs out of the water. Think they've closed shop now however. Facts are it's going to be tough to get a brilliant new LD player to show off comparisons at this point.

    Another option, if of course you already have the bonus discs, is to take a look at either the 'Hyperspace' collection, or another of the projects using DarkJedi's AVISYNTH scripts applied to the bonus disc video. The scripts convert to anamorphic, try to address some of the worst aliasing issues, add a bit of colour boost, and slight sharpening. Still not great, and not where I'd look for the closest thing to original (...cough....Harmy...coughcough....you have to own the BDs to make it not piracy though), but better than the video on the discs as it comes.
     
  46. Treadwell

    Treadwell Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Converting it to anamorphic is pointless because it's just resizing existing pixels, not adding resolution. Okay, it saves you the trouble of zooming it on your TV, but it's essentially the same thing.

    This smoothing is overly aggressive DVNR that was applied on the fly during these particular transfers from film to tape, and is thus on the LD master. All copies have this.
     
  47. Timmythekid

    Timmythekid Sr Member

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    The problem with zooming though is that you either chop of the subs, or have black bars all the way around the image, so the conversion isn't a bad idea. It's also can be done with a better algorithm than the on-the-fly converter on most commercial televisions. The temporal smoothing is present on all of the THX LDs, but not on all LDs. The Japanese Special Collection for example doesn't have the smoothing issue. It has it's own issues such as dirt and under saturated colour however, but no smear. Finally, the bonus disc gets added fun of having had the IVTC done apparently by a retarded chimp, leading to the 4-eyed trooper aberrations. This was not a quality release, nor was it even the best that could be made of the THX LD masters.
     

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