Kurtzan Heavily Influenced By Star Wars for Star Trek.

Well if you're only going to like one, that's the one.
It used to be my favorite being what I grew up with, but it's becoming harder and harder to watch. There are still some really good episodes, but some are so dated in acting style, writing, and social messages, that taken outside of understanding the time it was made in, it's just painful at times. Oddly enough though, I find that I really prefer the original special effects over the remastered ones.

TNG replaced TOS for me, and even though I truly enjoyed the first 2 seasons, it too (the first 2 seasons) are so dated, that it's getting harder to watch most of them. 4-7 still makes it.
 
"of course kids like it" also "they don't like it." At least pick one man. LoL

Why remake stuff in New ways? Cause they want to see how it does. Cause they can. Cause they've already sold as many copies of the old version as they're going to? Copy right holders don't need any more than that.

Things change, you don't have to like it; but to act like the new version is unlikable as a whole just isn't your call. If people enjoy it, you can be as butt hurt as you want, it won't make it less unenjoyable to those folks.

I just don't get the incessant need some people have to declare things "dead" or unwatchable. Or declare new versions of things "aren't the things they are". They're different, get on with your life.

I watched 10 seasons of Doctor who, and then I stopped cuz I just wasn't getting anything out of the new seasons. doesn't mean I need other people to not enjoy the seasons that come after where I stopped.

Star trek Discovery didn't look like a show I was going to get a ton out of, so I didn't buy a subscription to a service to watch it. But if other people want to buy us subscription and watch it, why the hell should I care?

I get less out of the next gen movies than I did out of the next gen TV show. It's not like I want them taken off the market, or stricken from the record though.

I've watched nearly every version of Stargate there was. Stargate universe didn't do it for me, so I went and did something else with my time. Again, why does it matter to me if someone else enjoyed Stargate universe?

I just don't get how the mere fact that a different version of something exists, can seem to have such a profound negative effect on someone's enjoyment on the something else they enjoy.

Where was anyone saying that people who like it, shouldn't like it? And we write about the stuff we don't like, for the same reason you share your opinion.

Here's why people are affected by say Discovery. It's because they REALLY love Star Trek, and were super excited that we were getting a new series. And it was a massive let down because the creative interests had ZERO interest in Star Trek.

Call it entitlement, but in a way they're right. It was the fans that carried Star Trek through the years, and it's kind of a kick in the nuts to be presented something called Star Trek, that is only Star Trek in name.

And if people didn't care, they wouldn't come to places like this to discuss or complain about it. If you don't care, then why share your opinion at all?

After all: Nothing says caring like sharing.
 
I have TOS on Bluray and I still watch it all the time. I never had any love for TNG or beyond. I watched it when it came out and I couldn't get past the first season, which granted, wasn't very good. Then I had a girlfriend whose father was a fanatic and always had it on. I wound up getting to see the whole thing over time and I still never much cared for it. It was too neon and utopian. Not my thing. I've seen every single iteration since and have yet to find one that I liked. Some I hated more than others (like Discovery). When Voyager came out, we had a party for the first episode. By the end of the first 20 minutes, nobody in the room was watching it. Nobody cared. No one in my circle of friends cares much about any of the newer shows, but all of us can sit down and watch TOS.

YMMV.
 
TOS is definitely the cornerstone, but even there there's inconsistency. Single-continuum timeline, as in "Tomorrow is Yesterday"? Or multiverse, as in "Mirror, Mirror"? What about those instances in the third season when no one gave a crap any more and Gene was gone? "Day of the Dove" always makes me hurt because it places main engineering at the back of the saucer rather than in the secondary hull. And then there's TAS, which follows on in the tradition of earlier TOS for the most part, despite painful '70s animation production values (I'd love to see it remastered, with all of the old voice performances re-used -- albeit with all the characters voiced by Jimmy Doohan and Nichelle Nichols at least altered).

I'd like to see Gene's vision for TMP, not the movie that ended up being a war between him and Harold Livingston, and that didn't have finished VFX in time for the premiere. Some of that comes through in the novelization, that Gene wrote. Not going to get into a dissertation on the rest of the films here...

TNG is... fraught. The first season was clunky as hell for most of the first half. Toward the midpoint we got a couple episodes that had some good Trek peeking out around some pretty cringe dressing -- "Justice" and "The Battle". After a bit more faltering, I feel they hit their groove starting with "We'll Always Have Paris". Even with the writers' strike that shortened and heavily impacted season two, it's still my favorite. I'll watch straight through from "WAHP", above, to "Peak Performance".

And I attribute most of that to Maury Hurley. The guy was a martinet and rather an ass, but he was a damn good TV producer. Gene told him his vision and Maury made sure the writers adhered to it, no matter how "wacky doodle" he personally felt it was. There was a high rate of turnover among the writers during those first two seasons because they were pissy at getting "rewritten by Maury". I've seen some of their first passes, and I feel he was right more than he was wrong. *shrug*

There was so much BTS drama, though. He was the one who fired Gates because he felt the character and her performance of were both flat, and brought in Diana Muldaur's Pulaski. Because of the circumstances, there was always friction between her and the rest, even though it wasn't her fault. I... have many thoughts.

But Maury eventually got fed up and quit when Gene kept contradicting his own directives to him from earlier -- said "If you can't keep this straight, I'm out!" So he did. After that, TNG just gets so bland for me. There are some darn good episodes in there, but I don't really feel the urge to watch most of them. Gene started pulling back during the third season, due to his failing health, and by the time the season ended it was the Berman and Pillar show. Rick Berman's a Hollywood chameleon -- good at rephrasing things crative people say to him so they think he gets their vision and he stays employed -- but he's had very few actual ideas himself. And Mike Piller was a good writer, but needed someone over him.

The less I say about Ron Moore, the better.
 
Last edited:
"Day of the Dove" always makes me hurt because it places main engineering at the back of the saucer rather than in the secondary hull.
I apologize for going off topic here, but how did you arrive at this? I've always used DotD as proof that engineering is in the secondary hull, as the energy being is seen exiting from there.
 
The entity is seen in the non-remastered episode exiting from the top of the interconnecting dorsal or the underside of the saucer right near it. Watch it again and pay close attention to the dialogue. Uhura reports emergency bulkhead have sealed off the lower decks, trapping nearly four hundred crew down there. Kang sets out to take engineering. Later, Spock reports the Klingons control deck 6 and starboard deck 7 -- those are the two decks that make up the widest part of the saucer (i.e., where the impulse engines are) -- while Starfleet controls the decks above. 38 individuals on each side of the staged conflict. And further such references for the rest of the episode.
 
The entity is seen in the non-remastered episode exiting from the top of the interconnecting dorsal or the underside of the saucer right near it. Watch it again and pay close attention to the dialogue. Uhura reports emergency bulkhead have sealed off the lower decks, trapping nearly four hundred crew down there. Kang sets out to take engineering. Later, Spock reports the Klingons control deck 6 and starboard deck 7 -- those are the two decks that make up the widest part of the saucer (i.e., where the impulse engines are) -- while Starfleet controls the decks above. 38 individuals on each side of the staged conflict. And further such references for the rest of the episode.
No! I reject your reality! Engineering was always in the secondary hull and always will be! La la la, I can't hear you, la la! :p
 
No! I reject your reality! Engineering was always in the secondary hull and always will be! La la la, I can't hear you, la la! :p
Exactly. That's where Matt Jeffries put it, at Gene's specific directive. Heck, the set for Main Engineering was only the starboard half of the full complex, with the forced-perspective reactor farm seen out the aft wall grille meant to extend back to the shuttlebay. It's huge.
 
1969? Whoa. I don't think I've ever encountered a Star Trek fan that only liked TOS.
I honestly think I prefer TOS over the rest. I find the other stuff mellowing too much in drama and ridiculous action and stuff I don't care about. I liked when they just went exploring stuff and wasn't in war all the time.
 
I honestly think I prefer TOS over the rest. I find the other stuff mellowing too much in drama and ridiculous action and stuff I don't care about. I liked when they just went exploring stuff and wasn't in war all the time.

My thing with TOS. And I'm probably biased towards TNG and DS9 since a grew up watching those. But my thing is, after just watching all of TOS and TAS on Netflix, is the plots started to feel the same. They almost always seem to be, one or several of main cast getting stranded, captured, or sick or something. And from there on out, it's a 'oh my gosh will they survive?' Or the 'we have 3 hours to save them' thing. I mean it probably worked well back then, but I've seen all the films, so of course they're going to survive. With that said, I really loved The City on the Edge of Forever. Hands down my favorite episode.
 
(cough) In that case, there's a facebook group that I should probably introduce you to...

There's probably a LOT of people that he could be introduced to. The problem is, social media tends to be dominated by the young and the young are the ones who grew up with TNG and series that followed. To them, that's "normal" for Trek. For those of us who grew up on TOS, that's what's "normal". Same thing with Star Wars. The OT is our "normal" and everything gets measured against it. Unfortunately, everything that came after is seriously lacking in the comparison.
 
Technically I "grew up on" TNG and beyond (born in 79) but my earliest experinces were watching TOS on tv and the films on release days in theaters with my father.
When TNG came out, I felt... animosity towards it..
Bald captain, everyone was wearing PJs (like TMP)
The ship was fat and bloated, reusing elements from the TMP sets.. poorly (made me think ofThe Love Boat every time I saw it)
and the first season was AWFUL.
I hate-watched TNG out of spite... always cheering whenever that bloated bird would explode.
I actually enjoyed DS9 and, at the moment, it's my second-favorite Trek
Voyager was too bland and "Lost in Space" for me... and it's finale was awful
Enterprise... SOOOO much failed potential and WHY did they have to give an explanation for the two types of Klingons... or why THAT explanation (of course, to that end, why did DS9 bring back certain legacy smooth-heads WITH ridges)
And now we have Disco which has been hit and miss... I don't MIND it but I don't LOVE it.
I have loved the parts with Pike though.. I honestly hope that he gets his own Spin-off.
(edit) I should note that while I probably sound like I despise TNG to this day, that's not the case... I still hate their ship but I actually have come to appreciate MOST of that series. It's just not in my top two. It's in the third place spot.
 
This thread is more than 4 years old.

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. This thread hasn't been active in some time. A new post in this thread might not contribute constructively to this discussion after so long.
If you wish to reply despite these issues, check the box below before replying.
Be aware that malicious compliance may result in more severe penalties.
Back
Top