Jurassic Park: Stan Winston 1:1 Raptor

Discussion in 'Replica Props' started by Turdbol, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. Turdbol

    Turdbol New Member

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    Just wanted to share some photos of my 1:1 scale Stan Winston Jurassic Park Raptor! Jurassic Park is my favorite movie, and have dreamed of owning a raptor for years. When one happened to come available, I pulled the trigger immediately! Thankfully, my wife was also happy! I have no idea how to finish it, and I am scared to ruin it.....so I think I will make a mold, and then put the original here away for safe-keeping! I think of making two, one with the original JP colors, and one as "Blue" from the new Jurassic World.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Here's what it looks like complete.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2015
  2. smurf

    smurf Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    That's awesome.
     
  3. TJack

    TJack Master Member Community Staff RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Does this not fall under the category of recasting someone else's work? I apologize if I'm mistaken.
     
  4. Turdbol

    Turdbol New Member

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    My knowledge is that it's only frowned upon if I am selling them. There is less than a 0% chance I would let one of these go for sale. I may be wrong, I am fairly new to this, but from my research here on the RPF, that's what I discovered.
     
  5. CynicalMormon

    CynicalMormon Member

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    If he want's to make a practice cast so he doesn't dick up the real one I see no problem with that. Especially if he's not planning on selling it.
     
  6. Turdbol

    Turdbol New Member

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    Thank you. I honestly have no idea what I am doing, and am so scared to ruin it. I definitely don't want to be labeled as a recaster, and that is certainly not my intent.
     
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  7. dbalschi

    dbalschi Sr Member

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    Except that's not what he said. He stated he wanted to make 2 copies for himself and finish those and put the original away.
     
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  8. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Not to hi-jack the thread, but my $0.02 worth.

    "Re-Casting" is simply making a copy of something.

    A "Re-caster" (by definition of this forum) is someone who takes someone else's work, makes copies of it to sell for their own financial gain and does not reference the original artist, rather they claim it as their own = VERY POOR FORM! No different to stealing.

    Re-casting will always be frowned upon because it has so many shades of grey and many "artists" are denied an income from others copying and selling their work.
    The only time it is truly OK is when you are the original artist and you are making the mold and casting from that mold.

    In this case, @Turdbol, has referenced the source of the work in the thread title and has stated that he wishes to preserve the original piece and that any copies made are for his own personal collection or use.

    Beautiful piece by the way.
     
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  9. Broilermaker

    Broilermaker Sr Member

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    F what these other guys say, you bought it, make a mold and duplicate it for yourself, show them to us when they are painted up, funny thing is if you had just done it they'd been "eyeing and aweing"and asking to buy it
     
  10. Broilermaker

    Broilermaker Sr Member

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    My iPad is old, I meant Eweing not eyeing. Nice piece
     
  11. dbalschi

    dbalschi Sr Member

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    So you would be ok with somebody buying something you made and making 2 copies of it which in turn would take money away from you?
     
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  12. Moviefreak

    Moviefreak Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Not to mention, in a couple years, they usually end up on the market when people lose interest and then it is sold as "I'm not sure exactly where these came from... I, uh... Picked them up on eBay, uh... Yeah, eBay and I don't know the I origin". :lol
    And then those are bought and recast and the recasting cycle begins again.
     
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  13. Broilermaker

    Broilermaker Sr Member

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    I have GIVEN stuff away and have seen copies passed off as og. But this guy here is doing it for himself. We copy others art work all the time, every time we make a lightsaber, or other prop we steal someone elses idea, how is this different
     
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  14. CynicalMormon

    CynicalMormon Member

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    Exactly, this whole site is dedicated to finding something someone else worked hard to make and then replicating it, sometimes exactly. Some prop guy worked really hard to make the JP cryo shaving cream can and now someone is selling them for $250+ on eBay*. Just because they re-engineered it doesn't make it theirs... that's the whole idea behind patents.
    Anyway the guy bought the * dino so he can do what he want's with it. He never said he'd pass it off as his or sell it. Chill out. The only reason he wanted to do it was to preserve the integrity of the original and for that I admire him. Hell, museums do that all the time.



    *Doesn't mean I won't buy one though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2015
  15. TJack

    TJack Master Member Community Staff RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I know that I would not be ok with someone buying one of the items I make then tossing some silicone on it so they could then make an additional copy - even if it was for their own personal use. As Moviefreak stated above -
    I'm willing to bet that any of the artists who sell in the junkyard will tell you the same.

    If you want more than one copy of an item then you should be purchasing them directly from the artist.
     
  16. ARKM

    ARKM Sr Member

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    With that logic, if you buy an mp3 of a song, you should only be able to put it on one device and never make a backup of it in any way, shape or form. Sorry but that's not how I roll. That song is going on all the USB drives that I use in each of my vehicles, a DVD backup, the hard drive on my PC, a USB stick for the portable stereo in my shop and if I owned one, a portable MP3 player (my cell phone doesn't count as I am middle aged and set in my ways and only use it as a phone). I have no wife or kids so that song is only for me and that's what really matters in this situation, how many people the song (or raptors) is really for. If a person looks down on me for that, they need to reevaluate their life.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2015
  17. Rylo

    Rylo Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    To be clear, you're suggesting that it's okay to copy work that someone spent the time to engineer?

    In other words, a prop sets undone, unreplicated for years until artist 'A' digs in and does the work. But, now that artist 'A' has done all the work, it's perfectly acceptable for 'whomever' to replicate that artists work. Reverse engineer it, now that the works been done for them?

    Let's use the JP goggles that I spent over a year engineering. Now that I've done all the work, spent thousands of dollars, etc; it's perfectly acceptable for someone to come in and drop a pair (my work) in rubber and continue to sell that which I worked so hard on?

    Don't get it twisted; someone can replicate anything they want provided they start from scratch on their own. BUT, to take the work of another, claim it as your own and sell for a profit is a one way ticket off this forum.

    As you mentioned. Numerous people sell cryocan replicas. Sadly, the majority are replicas of mine. Now, if a guy wants to sell cryos and do his own leg work on measurements, details, etc. that's his own business, but to take mine (or anyone else who created their own interpretation) and reverse engineer it is another matter.

    I spent a tremendous amount of time researching that piece years ago to end up with the the final result. In fact, a number of us did. Until the final design was replicated, it differed from the others out there because my final reference was ultimately off that of an original...something nobody else had. So, if someone wants to make sure they're producing the best replica possible they've got a great starting point now.

    Interesting how those who copied mine swear they didn't and say they got their design by viewing screen caps. You can't study 0.001/inches by eye-balling screen caps. Better yet, it's the inner dimensions that are the most humorous. Most people who replicate my work still seat all the inner cuts (not visible on film) at exactly the same locations, threads, sizes, etc. that I use. If one knows the slightest thing about machine work/engineering they understand the mathematical impossibility of such things. Don't make the mistake that many a new member have made by presuming it's all fair game because a different artist made the original piece.

    I do hope I'm misreading you.

    -Rylo

    NOTE: Casting from an original studio creation has some shades of gray. It rather depends on how one came by the piece. There are hundreds of threads authored on the topic, so I won't be getting into it here. Use the search feature.

    Cool dino just the same!


     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
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  18. TJack

    TJack Master Member Community Staff RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Let's say that you wanted to make a prop that requires multiples of an item - for example a Han in carbonite. It requires 8 volvo panels to complete it properly, so according to the logic of some of you here, I should just buy ONE panel from someone like Bigturc and make myself a mold to cast the other 7 rather than purchase all 8 from him?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
  19. CynicalMormon

    CynicalMormon Member

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    First let me say, Rylo, you do great work and if I could afford your replicas I would def buy them from you. However, I can't but that's beside the point.

    That said, all I'm saying is we copy stuff. Sometimes a lot of effort is put into those copies (i.e. your pieces). In fact maybe more effort than what went into the originals. The point I'm trying to make is I don't think we should jump on him because he wants to preserve his original by doing some castings. Sure, they may get sold way down the line but that still doesn't mean he can't do what he wants with his property. We can't predict what might happen to them but saying "OH, this could possibly happen in the future." isn't justification for not doing it. I just don't think it was fair for everyone to get on his * about it when, technically speaking, we're all copying something someone else came up with.

    Do you know the guy that designed the cryo can? or the goggles? I know you put a lot of work into your replicas but how much of your money has gone back to the original designers? You're making a profit (presumably) but he's doing it for preservation and personal reasons. That's your choice and this is his choice. Because of your choice there are jerks out there pawning off your hard work but that was a risk you took. Doesn't make it right but it, sadly, is the way things go. Also doesn't mean you should stop doing good work or selling stuff, just means there are always going to be vultures regardless.

    I'm not looking to start a fight and I agree that it's sketchy territory making molds of other pieces but given the statements the OP has said I think this went wrong. Let's issues some words of caution, warn him to think it through and be sure he knows that selling it would not be ok. Am I wrong in my thinking here? I don't believe I am but that's how I feel. These are opinions I have so take it or leave it I guess.
     
  20. CynicalMormon

    CynicalMormon Member

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    If that's the way you want to go about it that's your prerogative. Sure, buying all 8 is the way it should be done but what are the circumstances behind your making copies? Is it because you want to pawn it off as your own? Maybe you don't have the cash to buy all 8 but are passionate about building the prop and this is the only way you could do it. Does that mean only people that can afford the 8 should be making Han's? Maybe you want to change it a bit to make it your own. That's perfectly all right legally by the fair use laws. Look at the guy that took peoples Instagram photos, made a couple changes and is now selling them for big bucks. Crappy thing to do but it's still legal.

    This is quickly de-evolving into an ethics battle which is ripe with opinions, conjecture and shoulds and shouldn'ts. I agree that taking other people's work as your own is bunk and cheap and shouldn't be done but circumstances are everything. His circumstance is personal use and preservation.
     
  21. Bigturc

    Bigturc Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Well now I'm getting famous! :) For my own offense, I did recast a Volvo panel and never asked Volvo about it! :) Well, when someone wants 1 copy of my panel, I just sell it at a little higher price then buying 8 .. and seriously, if anybody wants to take over the Volvo panel business, PELLLLEEEEAAASE go ahead .. they're such a pain to cast right .. I'd be more than happy to not have to do them anymore :) Plus they cost tons of dollar in time to do the mold and in rubber material.

    OP, before thinking about molding this, don't ask yourself if you're a recaster, ask yourself if you really want to invest time and money in molds that could NOT be used for someone else's then you. TRUST ME, you'll end up SAVING money by buying a 2nd cast from the original maker ...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
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  22. Rylo

    Rylo Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Let's face it, people do that. I'm not condoning it, but it happens. Most stop there though.

    What would be frowned upon by the community and more widely regarded as recasting would be to take one of Bigturc's pulls, replicate it and start selling them. The simple reason for doing so...it's easier than tracking down a clean original right? I mean he's already done the work! That's an example of recasting an otherwise found object.

    If someone wants to sell panels, that's all well and fine, but in this scenario, they would need to cast their own master from an original that they tracked down.

    The simple rule here. Honor among thieves.


     
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  23. ARKM

    ARKM Sr Member

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    The OP has already stated that he will never sell them in his second post in this thread (which is the fourth post in this thread). If a person continues to infer otherwise, that means that this person is calling the OP a liar. Is there any particular reason to automatically assume the OP is a liar?
     
  24. Sunkistshark

    Sunkistshark Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Lets face it.... you see people selling their "prized possessions" in the JY all the time. So you recast this head to make 2 more for yourself.... down the road whether it be 1 year or 5 years are these going to be put in a garbage bag and tossed to the curb when theres no room for them anymore? Nope! They will get sold, so the I'm making them for myself wont work unless you are planning on putting it in your will to bury them right next
     
  25. ARKM

    ARKM Sr Member

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    That's an awful strong and negative assumption. You may be right, you may be wrong. Only time will tell. However to automatically just up and assume the worst of this guy seems a bit harsh and" witch huntish" to me. If he's a good person, when the time comes, the raptors will be thrown in the trash.
     
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  26. Moongazer

    Moongazer New Member

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    Discussing re-casting aside, that's wicked that you managed to snag a raptor head. Was it up on ebay or was it through connections that you managed to buy it?
     
  27. Turdbol

    Turdbol New Member

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    Well - I had no idea that this conversation would turn out this way. I just wanted to share my raptor..... I will certainly not share it when it's complete though.
     
  28. dbalschi

    dbalschi Sr Member

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    I'm pretty sure nobody had a problem with you casting one to preserve the original, the problem I see was when you said you were going to cast two. If you wanted two, you should have bought two.
     
  29. Turdbol

    Turdbol New Member

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    So let me get this straight, if I want to take the time to make a mold to preserve the original, I am only allowed to cast one? So making a mold is fine.....making a copy is fine.....as long as it's only one. And let me also point out, that there was only one for sale.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
  30. Moviefreak

    Moviefreak Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  31. Turdbol

    Turdbol New Member

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  32. CynicalMormon

    CynicalMormon Member

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    Ugh... so much drama. Turdbol, it's your property do what you want... sorry it turned out like this. Good luck with whatever you decide to do and PM me if you get some pics.
     
  33. OzJames

    OzJames New Member

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    Without getting involved in the recasting debate I just wanted to say that the head looks awesome. I dont blame you for snapping it up straight away, I know I would if I had the spare cash
     
  34. JD

    JD Master Member

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    This.

    End of story.

    The Community Guidelines of this forum are clear: "Deliberately recasting another member’s creation without consent is not supported by our communities.
    Deliberately recasting an active licensee’s product is not supported by our communities."
     
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  35. azuretek

    azuretek New Member

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    So why is he allowed to make one copy but not two? The rule says no recasting at all... I just want to be sure I understand.
     
  36. dbalschi

    dbalschi Sr Member

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    Technically I don't really think he should even make one but I was giving the OP the benefit of the doubt.
     
  37. JD

    JD Master Member

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    I didn't say he should make any.
     
  38. azuretek

    azuretek New Member

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    When you said "this" it seemed like you were agreeing with the quote, which indicated it was ok to make one copy but not two, that's why I was confused.

    Anyway, I hope to see the raptor painted.
     
  39. JD

    JD Master Member

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    I apologize, my intent was to agree that if he wanted two - he should've bought two.

    If you're going to do something like this, just keep your mouth shut about it and don't post about it on a board. I'm not endorsing that or implying that this might make it right.
     
  40. Moviefreak

    Moviefreak Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    My concern does lie in the future. So he makes a mold.... Will it be destroyed immediately or tossed into a closet somewhere? Sooner or later, either he will pass it on or someone will happen upon the mold and it will find new life. Not saying the OP will do this, but by making that mold, it is in his hands to know exactly where it lands one day. I am betting he won't have it in him to destroy the mold since the material for the mold will cost him a lot, so he will sit on it. Then one day he will be gone, but that mold will be discovered and most likely used.
     
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