Julien’s Upcoming Hero Phaser & Communicator Auction
- Thread starter ghostryder
- Start date
AdmiralBaxter
Sr Member
Something like that....
He is sprinkling them with the “Shatner Magic”.
No, these didn’t come from a private collection of his. I would be surprised if he held onto anything from the series.
WinstonWolf359
Master Member
My memory is a little hazy but I recall Shatner putting up a vacuformed phaser for auction many years ago.
I agree that by now I doubt he has anything left, and I also doubt he had ever kept much. He really doesn't seem like the sentimental type when it comes to "work stuff" and I wonder if any of them were particularly sentimental about Star Trek in 1969.
newworld
Sr Member
These two pieces were bought directly from Dick Ruben, FWIW.
newworld
Sr Member
John Long and I had a talk about that. We assume that the Heroes were never put on a belt or waist due to the fragility.
newworld
Sr Member
FYI. I have read the evaluation of the restoration of the Communicator on Herocomm. While everybody gets to have an opinion this write up reeks of sour grapes. I believe one of the people that wrote it is someone who I am very familiar with. That person, when given an opportunity to contribute to the project, totally screwed the pooch. He acted in an incredibly unprofessional way, and in so doing made me look like a complete jerk. And yet now they feel free to critique someone else’s work. This is pathetic.
If I recall correctly, Dick Rubin was the Prop Master on Star Trek: TMP, correct?
Are the circumstances regarding how he came to possess these TOS pieces known?
As a side note, I remembered that I happen to have some of his correspondence from the film, in a folder from Brick Price Movie Miniatures.
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newworld
Sr Member
Correct - TMP . DR was a conduit for a number of TOS and Phase II pieces that I am aware of. Unfortunately, the original owner is long dead and the specifics of the story of how he acquired it died with him.
AdmiralBaxter
Sr Member
And here we go AGAIN as one of the "Nichelle Nichols" phasers goes up for auction......
Studio Auctions
Studio Auctions
feek61
Sr Member
Funny how the nozzle has a big ding on the back side edge, so it was obviously a pretty big impact make that kind of mark on the aluminum but there is absolutely no damage to the body shell at all. Must have been quite the trick to damage the back edge of the nozzle and not even touch the shell or perhaps it was a result of a bad job of doing fake wear on a fake phaser.
Even the description is pompous and pretentious.
AdmiralBaxter
Sr Member
Actually, on one side there's a rather odd area near the from where they simply painted over what was presumably cause by a defect in the shells. No one even bothered to attempt to fill it before it was painted...
Then the rear fins have the same curvature as the rear bumper from a car from the early 50's.
Very unnatural paint distressing, especially in areas in which the hand or wrist wouldn't even rub against the shells (considering most wear would be cause my oils from the hand causing the paint to deteriorate.
Why is the flying saucer ten turn unusually shinny while the rest of the aluminum parts are dull.
Based on the threads in the Velcro some of the some of the personnel on the ship wore white t-shirts as a part of their uniforms.....
AdmiralBaxter
Sr Member
Yeah I never saw it on the few times I visited the MoPop museum.... lolzzzz
drusselmeyer
Master Member
Speculators always destroy everything they touch.
AdmiralBaxter
Sr Member
We know for a fact that both of the Nichelle Nichols midgrade phasers are forgeries beyond any doubt.
JMSupp
Well-Known Member
Agreed on the "sour grapes" sound to the evaluation. That write up was really... odd. I felt it was unnecessarily aggressive, and some of the suggestions for restoration were contrary to current restoration practices, and some suggestions risk damaging the communicator.
Every restoration is a battle between appearance and authenticity, and full of compromises. Do you restore it to "factory fresh" condition... or do you try to "Improve" it to a showroom quality appearance? Do just enough to keep it from falling apart, or rip out everything inside and just keep the skin? There is no way to satisfy everyone's idea of what it "should" look like.
It used to be that stripping, refinishing or repainting was considered "restoration"... sometimes with disastrous results. Look at Hoggle from Labyrinth or the 1990s Enterprise "restoration" for extreme cases. Neither of those were reversible, and in the case of the Enterprise, the restorer covered the original decals with new ones with different text on them because he believed the decals were added in the 1908s... which is unfortunate, as original decal sheets showed up in 2012 showing that those covered up decals were, in fact original.
Current museum practice is to do as little as possible to preserve the originality of the piece, and where possible, make any repairs and such reversible. The reversible part is particularly important, as technology changes, there may be better ways to protect and preserve things, and what is done, cannot be undone. So I think that HeroComms insistence on making the phaser "accurate" but not reversible is rather silly... because who decides what is "accurate"? Should the paint scratches be touched up, chips filled in, and original glue replaced so it appears like it did in 1966?
Where I think the HeroComm... commentary fails is some of the restoration suggestions. Swapping out the movements on the watch may be fairly easy... but then you have to worry about the integrity of the rubber tube, the shape of the wax pad, etc... and possible damage to those if/when the owner decides to show off the moire effect. It's easier to just swap out the stopwatch, and not risk the original.
The biggest issue I have with the commentary is that it's a good idea to reform the Kydex with heat to better reflect it's possible original condition. There are so many ways that could go wrong, that I'm shocked that it was suggested. Sure, it's a thermoforming plastic, and might be able to be reshaped, but a few seconds extra with a heat gun could cause blisters, shrinkage, or any number of issues. Also... plastic ages. It may be brittle in some areas, or have unseen stresses that might crack under the heat or pressure, or any number of other issues. There is a possibility of permanent damage, and I don't think any responsible restorer would undertake such an operation that has so many unknowns or risks.
If you want something that looks EXACTLY like it did in 1966... get a replica. Don't damage the original that's 60 years old just so you can play pew-pew at the Vasquez Rocks.
All in all, while there are some choices the restorer made that I may disagree with (rhinestone replacement color, etc), since all of the choices are reversible, I don't really have an issue with them. I think the restorer did a good job of doing as little as possible make Beta complete and presentable, and didn't compromise the integrity of the original parts of the prop.
HeroComm is still an invaluable resource, with an amazing eye for details, and they have documented the communicators better than any other prop. It really is a gold mine, and I'm not denigrating the amount of care and work that goes into documenting those props.
Having now read the HC assessment, "sour grapes" isn't really the vibe I got. "Disappointment", and "stating the facts", more than anything else.
When it comes to the communicators, HeroComm has been top-tier in terms of research, transparency, etc. I'd trust their judgment on restoring an original more than just about anyone else.
And, sure, trying to fix the warping on the shells probably isn't a good idea, but, depending on one's definition of "restoration", it was still within the realm of possibility. And, as a wise man said, there are always possibilities.
Frankly, John Long's involvement in this whole thing hasn't thrilled me. This is The Expert who hoarded information and whatnot for years, so as to have a leg up on everyone else, doling out information and references in dribs and drabs so he could stay at the top of the heap. He also made his "fat butt" comms the (inaccurate) standard for licensed replicas, and made a hand phaser replica kit which (be it due to lack of attention or deliberately building in tells to avoid recasting) was both the wrong shape and wrong size (despite his having hands-on measurements from an original hero).
Most importantly, he arrogantly and dismissively proclaimed the Alpha comm to be a fake (because he wasn't the one who found and documented it--THERE are some "sour grapes"), despite HeroComm providing buckets of evidence and transparent research which overwhelmingly proved otherwise.
So, of course, being The Expert, he's now handed an original communicator to "restore", and proceeds to get numerous details (moire pattern, moire ring, winder knob) more inaccurate than they could or should have been.
HeroComm--or someone relying upon their data--could have done a better and more accurate job. At the end of the day, 99.9% of people (and presumably the comm's new owner, as well) won't know the difference, but does that mean we hardcore fanatics should settle for lower standards?
So, yeah, "disappointing" is the word.
YMMV.
When it comes to the communicators, HeroComm has been top-tier in terms of research, transparency, etc. I'd trust their judgment on restoring an original more than just about anyone else.
And, sure, trying to fix the warping on the shells probably isn't a good idea, but, depending on one's definition of "restoration", it was still within the realm of possibility. And, as a wise man said, there are always possibilities.
Frankly, John Long's involvement in this whole thing hasn't thrilled me. This is The Expert who hoarded information and whatnot for years, so as to have a leg up on everyone else, doling out information and references in dribs and drabs so he could stay at the top of the heap. He also made his "fat butt" comms the (inaccurate) standard for licensed replicas, and made a hand phaser replica kit which (be it due to lack of attention or deliberately building in tells to avoid recasting) was both the wrong shape and wrong size (despite his having hands-on measurements from an original hero).
Most importantly, he arrogantly and dismissively proclaimed the Alpha comm to be a fake (because he wasn't the one who found and documented it--THERE are some "sour grapes"), despite HeroComm providing buckets of evidence and transparent research which overwhelmingly proved otherwise.
So, of course, being The Expert, he's now handed an original communicator to "restore", and proceeds to get numerous details (moire pattern, moire ring, winder knob) more inaccurate than they could or should have been.
HeroComm--or someone relying upon their data--could have done a better and more accurate job. At the end of the day, 99.9% of people (and presumably the comm's new owner, as well) won't know the difference, but does that mean we hardcore fanatics should settle for lower standards?
So, yeah, "disappointing" is the word.
YMMV.
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JMSupp
Well-Known Member
It's easy to armchair quarterback the restoration work, and I imagine no matter who did it, we'd probably be second guessing them. It's what we do best!
I absolutely trust HeroComms documentation, I don't have any issues there. Transparency? Well... I still recall the kerfuffle over the last phaser... I still think it's a shame that that section of the site is still gone.
From HeroComm:
"Presuming the main objectives of the restoration were: 1) to return the prop's appearance and functioning to as near as possible its iconic 1968 "Day of the Dove" (DOTD) action close-up, 2) maintain within the unit the highest percentage of creator Wah Chang's original parts, and 3) for any detail that is unknowable, replicate how Wah built it in his other hero communicator ("Alpha"), here's a quick review of how we see each of the refurbished elements measuring up:"
"Presuming" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. I actually like that HeroComm states what they consider a good restoration, but they presume that an auction house has the same goal. I suspect it's more like "Do as little as possible, make it as pretty as possible, as cheaply as possible, as quickly as possible, without breaking anything." I can certainly understand the "Disappointment" take, as well. It's clear that HeroComm goes to great lengths to try to be as accurate as possible, so when something falls short, I get it.
Despite the seemingly high fees, most auctions run on fairly narrow profit margins. While they usually charge the customer for repairs, etc... I'm sure there would be a major payout if a rare prop was damaged in their possession. So I'm sure they are conservative in their approach to repair/restoration as well.
I'm pretty sure that there was a time crunch as well, as there always is in the auction world. In fact, they mention in the auction description the watch could likely be repaired, but there wasn't time. Could he have done more to make it closer to how it appeared? Possibly. Not knowing the scope of work, budget, timeframe, etc... there's no way to be sure. The mandate could have been "Make it pretty, here's $50 for your time." for all we know. Heck, he could have done the moire ring wrong on purpose as a tell, we just don't know. I know several people who would have attempted to restore it for free, just to say they did it... and done a much worse job. Trust me, it could have been far worse...
I have no insider knowledge of how John Long ended up doing the restoration. I suppose, like most things, he was a friend of a friend. Most people tend to recommend someone they know, and in the prop world, those circles are pretty tight. For better or worse, they tend to guard their knowledge as if it's the only thing that makes them special. I don't like it, but I understand it. With the number of fakes and recasters out there, I don't really blame people. When years of research and work can be copied by someone in hours, I can see why people don't tend to share.
I'm not trying to defend or dismiss the restoration. My take is as long as any restorations are documented, and easily reversible, that's the best we can hope for. I can nitpick the details, much like HeroComm has, but at the end of the day, whoever drops a couple of hundred thousand can restore it however they want, but I hope future restorations don't try to make it into something it isn't.
I absolutely trust HeroComms documentation, I don't have any issues there. Transparency? Well... I still recall the kerfuffle over the last phaser... I still think it's a shame that that section of the site is still gone.
From HeroComm:
"Presuming the main objectives of the restoration were: 1) to return the prop's appearance and functioning to as near as possible its iconic 1968 "Day of the Dove" (DOTD) action close-up, 2) maintain within the unit the highest percentage of creator Wah Chang's original parts, and 3) for any detail that is unknowable, replicate how Wah built it in his other hero communicator ("Alpha"), here's a quick review of how we see each of the refurbished elements measuring up:"
"Presuming" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. I actually like that HeroComm states what they consider a good restoration, but they presume that an auction house has the same goal. I suspect it's more like "Do as little as possible, make it as pretty as possible, as cheaply as possible, as quickly as possible, without breaking anything." I can certainly understand the "Disappointment" take, as well. It's clear that HeroComm goes to great lengths to try to be as accurate as possible, so when something falls short, I get it.
Despite the seemingly high fees, most auctions run on fairly narrow profit margins. While they usually charge the customer for repairs, etc... I'm sure there would be a major payout if a rare prop was damaged in their possession. So I'm sure they are conservative in their approach to repair/restoration as well.
I'm pretty sure that there was a time crunch as well, as there always is in the auction world. In fact, they mention in the auction description the watch could likely be repaired, but there wasn't time. Could he have done more to make it closer to how it appeared? Possibly. Not knowing the scope of work, budget, timeframe, etc... there's no way to be sure. The mandate could have been "Make it pretty, here's $50 for your time." for all we know. Heck, he could have done the moire ring wrong on purpose as a tell, we just don't know. I know several people who would have attempted to restore it for free, just to say they did it... and done a much worse job. Trust me, it could have been far worse...
I agree, fixing the warping is absolutely possible, though I would say it's also pretty risky. Many well meaning folks have attempted repairs (Including myself) and have made things worse. New kydex has known properties, but I don't know of any long term studies on it's aging properties aside from company literature. It's an acrylic-polyvinyl chloride plastic. That means it contains PVC, which gets brittle with age. I honestly have no idea if kydex does as well, especially early kydex. I would hate to be the guy who botched a repair on a prop costing a couple of hundred thousand dollars.
I have no insider knowledge of how John Long ended up doing the restoration. I suppose, like most things, he was a friend of a friend. Most people tend to recommend someone they know, and in the prop world, those circles are pretty tight. For better or worse, they tend to guard their knowledge as if it's the only thing that makes them special. I don't like it, but I understand it. With the number of fakes and recasters out there, I don't really blame people. When years of research and work can be copied by someone in hours, I can see why people don't tend to share.
I'm not trying to defend or dismiss the restoration. My take is as long as any restorations are documented, and easily reversible, that's the best we can hope for. I can nitpick the details, much like HeroComm has, but at the end of the day, whoever drops a couple of hundred thousand can restore it however they want, but I hope future restorations don't try to make it into something it isn't.
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