Jin Roh armor project...

Discussion in 'Replica Costumes' started by synasp, Mar 1, 2006.

  1. synasp

    synasp Sr Member

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    There have been live action, comics, and anime versions of Jin Roh, but IMHO, the anime armor is by far the coolest. I thought I'd dust off a project that was shelved a few years ago, and finish it up. Has anyone else watched this anime?

    I think that even if you haven't seen the anime, the armor is still cool, meeean-looking armor. B)

    Here's a scan from a Jin Roh book:
    [attachmentid=6922]

    Reference pictures from the anime:
    [attachmentid=6923]

    [attachmentid=6924]

    [attachmentid=6925]

    And the 12" Medicom figure:
    [attachmentid=6926]

    [attachmentid=6927]

    To start on this project, I've decided to tackle the most important piece: the mask.

    A big problem is that the anime design changes from frame to frame. I've been working with a very cool fellow member (maybe he'd like to chime in) and a perfect mock-up of the toy just didn't look right. The mouth was too long. It was too different from the anime.

    After some key changes to adapt more to the anime--the 2nd revision--it still didn't look right... something was off.

    Another total revamp, and the 3rd version looked exactly like the anime from the side profile. Problem is, as it turned out, the animators cheated.

    A perfect side profile meant the mask looked funky from the front. A perfect nose from the side meant too small of a nose from the front. The anime mask couldn't exist in the physical world. There needed to be a compromise, but what? How?

    The fourth revision, a hybrid between medicom (a physical representation that we know can exist) and anime (the aesthetic shapes and proportions we're trying to copy) is the best bet.

    ...this is where you guys come in. Any thoughts or comments? Suggestions?

    Anything at all about the mask, the armor, tips and tricks will help. This is a really cool project that I've been wanting to do for a long time now, so I'm incredibly excited. Hopefully you guys are interested as well...


    David
     
  2. darcjedi

    darcjedi Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    the hi-impact guys did the anime armor a few years ago, which looked awesome.
    one of them also posted detailed pics of the armor a while back, which i saved off somewhere for reference, i can send them to you later if i can find them.

    personally, i really like the live action "stray dog" version of this armor... i think the mask just looks meaner or something. but the anime version is cool as well.

    -Jeff
     
  3. darcjedi

    darcjedi Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    and speaking of stray dog... heres my mask and helmet :)

    [​IMG]
     
  4. bothanspy

    bothanspy Sr Member

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    Yes, the mask has been done. Here's mine. The armor, however is not as easily accessible.
     
  5. Clutch

    Clutch Master Member

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    Any pics of the live action movie version around?
     
  6. darcjedi

    darcjedi Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    i have a TON of screencaps at home.... this is the only one i have stored online right now.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Birdie

    Birdie Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    My advice would be to pick up the Japanes Mook for Jin-Roh that has all the detailed production drawings for the anime. I have on, it's pretty cool.
     
  8. darcjedi

    darcjedi Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    yeah, i have it too.
     
  9. Jeeves

    Jeeves Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I think I prefer the Anime version to the ones that folks have now - I'm assuming that's the live action version. Either way, they are cool - just if I had a choice, I'd prefer the Anime.

    I think I remember seeing some Kerberos guys in Dragon Con or perhaps Comic Con pics - might be worth a search.

    -Raj
     
  10. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  11. synasp

    synasp Sr Member

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    The one you and darcjedi have is the Stray Dogs version (live action). I prefer the anime one. The Stray Dogs looks like a poodle (small, pointy nose :p) while the anime looks like a wolf (wide face, gas-mask snout). But this is just personal opinion, and that's why I'm going for the anime mask.

    Yes, Hi-Impact did the anime one. Hopefully it's okay to post this image:
    [attachmentid=6931]
    [attachmentid=6932]
    The one above is from the Japanese JR book.

    The H-I mask is nice, but there are noticeable flaws that I can't help but notice since I've stared at dozens and dozens of reference pictures for countless hours. I wont nitpick though unless someone from Hi-Impact wants me to.

    It's a very nice mask, and probably costs a lot less than the one I want in fiberglass, but I'm just a perfectionist and want a "definitive" version.

    Does anyone have ideas for the eyes? Any 3P0 builders want to chime in on how they do the 3P0 eyes? My main concern is diffusing the light from the LEDs so it doesn't look like a bunch of individual LEDs, and will still allow someone to look through the eyes.

    Kylash, very nice Stray Dogs. :) :thumbsup


    David
     
  12. temponaut

    temponaut Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I haven't seen the live-action picture, but have seen the anime and was very impressed, not only by the design of the mask and armor, but also by the visual design of the film overall.

    I am quite interested in this project and would love to have a helmet, but don't know what I can contribute other than enthusiasm.

    On the other hand, I do live in Tokyo, so if there are reference or other materials from Japan that I may be able to locate/provide, I will do my best to do so. :D
     
  13. darcjedi

    darcjedi Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    i think saying that the anime one looks like a wolf is stretching it a bit... and dont kid yourself, it has the same "pointy nose" that the live action one does. :)
     
  14. Beeb89

    Beeb89 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I'd love to help out with this project. I've done a LOT of research and reference collecting as well. I can't help much with molding and casting BUT I can help with creating the masters. :)

    As for lighting the eyes... David, I've sent you a PM. :)

    -B89. :D
     
  15. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    id like more info about lighting as well...ive got mine working fine but when it comes to seeing, the lenses fog up quite fast...
     
  16. synasp

    synasp Sr Member

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    Beeb, replying to PM... :thumbsup

    the best way to explain how I'm approaching this is... well, like the "day after" and you're sitting around with your buddies. They all saw who you left the bar with, and while she wasn't all beer-goggle good-lookin, some post-event self-convincing goes a long way. So just let me have my "anime mask is the greatest mask in the world" opinion.. :lol

    Okay, so whomever reads this, PM your 3P0 buddies and ask them how they did the eyes. From what I understand, it's the eye, then a smaller tube inside that (which the person looks out from) then the LEDs surround the tube... I'm not sure how well that would work. 3P0 lights aren't very well diffused.
     
  17. NEKROFANATIC

    NEKROFANATIC Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I'd be sooo willing to lend some moral support to this project. BTW, where do ya'll get the german helmet's for the masks. I haven't been able to find anything 'cept real or replicas that cost upwards of $75 - $a billion bucks.
    cheers. JAson
     
  18. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    mine is pvc, cant remember the site i got it..but it was only like $35.
     
  19. NEKROFANATIC

    NEKROFANATIC Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    dayam. Someone, anyone, hook me up with that site.?
    :)
     
  20. Soundwave

    Soundwave Sr Member

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    Ohhh interesting project. I love the anime version too. :) HI setup is nice, but like you said, there are some noticable differences, which really do stand out, but awesome work all the same.
    Not really in the know to offer any advice as of yet, so I'll just hide in the shadows and watch the masters at work.
     
  21. darcjedi

    darcjedi Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    well, if youre looking for ideas on how to light the eyes, heres something i made for my ecto goggle project i'm currently working on. its just a ring of styrene that i have superglued leds into and wired together in parallel... it seems to work pretty good, the only thing i need to do is come up with some kind of diffuser.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  22. marcvs66

    marcvs66 New Member

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    Here's a japanese fan-made anime-style Panzer Cop suit. Scanned from an old B-CLUB magazine from '91. I have a lot of Panzer Cop/Jin Roh stuff that I've collected over the years... one of the nicest items would be the old Kaiyodo kit of the anime-style Panzer Cop... which would be excellent reference [along w/ the manga] for making a full-size suit.

    [attachmentid=6954]
     
  23. synasp

    synasp Sr Member

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    hm... I'm going to have to play around with LEDs. But very nice goggles.. Is wiring LEDs in parallel the best? Exoray posted a nice diagram on how to wire LEDs a while back... I lost it though.

    Do you guys think 8 super-bright LEDs is better than, say, 10 standard LEDs? The argument for standards is that it'll be easier to diffuse.

    For some * reason, I need my props to feel "functional" so even if no one will see the inside of the mask, it still needs to look like a real mask, not a prop, from my POV. I've got a cool idea on how to power the eye LEDs as well as the fan in the mouthpiece (that will suck air in from the jaw guards down into the chest).

    marcvs66, cool picture. That's a weird blend of anime (mask, helmet, shoulder) and live action (chest, thighs, legs). I'm liking how uniform the red eyes are glowing though...

    Do any of you have more pictures in your reference libraries?
     
  24. darcjedi

    darcjedi Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    actually, that armor pictured above is based on the other live action movie "the red spectacles"

    edit: added a few screencaps :)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  25. darcjedi

    darcjedi Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    and i just realized that i had the hi impact armor pics stored on my web server. if i remember correctly, one of them told me before they didnt mind them being used for reference, but if anyone has any objections, i will remove them.

    http://www.darcjedi.com/jinroh/
     
  26. synasp

    synasp Sr Member

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    wow weird--I've never seen those screen caps before. That's a cool looking mask, though. It's a bit too "robot" but still cool. :thumbsup
     
  27. synasp

    synasp Sr Member

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    Here's a teaser where I took the mock up and photoshoped in shadows and the glowing eyes. Parts still need to be added, and it needs to be detailed and finished overall prior to molding. (like the curve under the eyes, side nubs on the mouth, rounding parts of the mouth, smoothing out the cheeks and top nub, etc)

    But you get an idea... what do you think?
    [attachmentid=6968]


    David

    edit: brightened photo
     
  28. temponaut

    temponaut Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    When you say it needs to look like a real mask "from my POV," which POV do you mean here? Do you mean that you want the helmet to maintain the illusion of functionality not only from the exterior, but also when you look inside (no exposed wires, bulbs, glue, etc.)?


    {EDIT} Sorry to draw attention to my avatar so frequently, but is there a slight resemblance between my dog and the mask in your image above? :lol
     
  29. synasp

    synasp Sr Member

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    Gah. the mock up picture came out darker than I intended. I'll edit it tomorrow and re-upload so you can see more of the detail.

    Yep. With detailing on the inside as well. Although I don't think I want to put a respirator cup on the inside since it'll be hard to breath in.... we'll see. Most likely I'll have 2 versions--a display and a cosplay.

    :lol As long as your dog's eyes don't glow, we're cool.
     
  30. temponaut

    temponaut Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    You mean, as long as they don't glow red we're cool... :D

    [attachmentid=6961]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
  31. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    man thats really nice, didnt know you were that far, sweet.
     
  32. Jeeves

    Jeeves Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yeah, you sneaky rat. Nice work - but I had no idea you were this far along. Excellent, excellent work.
    -RAJ
     
  33. synasp

    synasp Sr Member

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    Speedy, yes. :D Speed is essential for catching the bad guys. But the credit goes to my partner-in-crime, who's a machine (that's pretty evident after 4 huge revisions). We've covered every angle, every size variation, every proportion variation, every line... the mock up above is the best hybrid between a real-life mask and the anime (which, like I mentioned in the first post, is an optical illusion depending on the angle it's drawn, and the artist who drew it).

    There have been changes though from the mock up above. A significant one (I think, anyway) is that the nose bridge has a narrower cut on top--about 4 degrees inward--which gives it a meaner look. It's amazing how such a small detail makes such a big difference. Well, at least it does to me. :p I'm in the school of "picky props."

    Okay, so active project goals:

    -Eyes
    --LED wiring
    --Nunmber of LEDs to use
    --Voltage
    --Construction of eye unit
    --Material for lens
    -Ears
    --What WWII pilot "hat" is best? (I don't even know what they're called)
    [attachmentid=6967]
    Basically, I'm thinking it's easier to just get one of those pilot hats, cut it up, and use that rather than construct one from scratch out of leather. But that depends on how expensive one of those hats are, and how large they are in comparison to the mask (it should be the same size as the picture above in relation, of course).
     
  34. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    when you say hat are you refering to the german panzer solider helmets? check out a few search engines for replica abs german helmets, i know they are out there.
     
  35. synasp

    synasp Sr Member

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    I meant the pilot hats. Like this one:
    [​IMG]
    ...just for the ear cups.

    edit: oh yeah, I lightened the mock up pic above so you can see the jaw guard now...
     
  36. synasp

    synasp Sr Member

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    Side profile. To exactly match up with the anime, imagine the mock up photo taken a little bit furthur from the right of the mask, so the eye is furthur to the left.

    This one is still missing the side nub on the mouth, curve under the eye, etc. but you get the idea.
    [attachmentid=6969]

    And the sketch. Keep in mind all the features/details change (sometimes drastically) from drawing to drawing, artist to artist.
    [attachmentid=6970]
     
  37. wynnstudio

    wynnstudio Active Member

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    I'm working on a stray dog version. For the eyes I used 34mm UV camera filters (UV ones aremuch cheaper then red filters). You can remove the glass lens part, I then laser cut new lens out of red acrylic. The filters ran me $20 for the set. I made the new lens myself. Just working on the lighting part now.

    Thomas
     
  38. FETTCLONE

    FETTCLONE Well-Known Member

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    Nice call on the red acrylic, WS. I wouldn't have thought of that one, my first thoughts leaning more toward LED's and diffusion gels. That would save a lot of time.

    You folks just make me want to build all the things I already did, and then about a dozen more... now I just have to finish learning how to cast with resin and develop some fibreglass skills (must... wait... for... summer).
     
  39. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    just added the "01" to the back of my helmet, fixing my armor up for Anime Central in may, hopefully i can get some nice pics out in the snow soon :)
     
  40. synasp

    synasp Sr Member

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    Thomas, any pics of how the red acrylic turned out? I was thinking about acrylic, but it glows on the edges, not the face. Did you fix that problem?

    Here's the latest update. Note that the image proportions for the sketch and mock up are the same (something like 400x388). As mentioned before, the animators cheat like crazy when drawing this. Turns out, the sketch is a side profile, not slightly to the right. The eye is "sunk in" more to make it look meaner--this is the Mickey Mouse effect (where Mickey's ears are always horizontal, regardless of what direction he is looking). The 5 helmet vent position is arbitrary--it shifts around from sketch to sketch. The position of the mock up vents are where the Medicom figure has them.

    In this sketch, the animators got the helmet proportions right (slightly exaggerated on the bottom flap, though--but nothing extreme). In other sketches, the animators pulled the helmet top waaay up (like a Dark Helmet effect).

    What do you guys think? Any input on how to do the ear cups and the eyes?
    [attachmentid=7021]
     
  41. NEKROFANATIC

    NEKROFANATIC Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I think the 5 holes in the helmet should be moved further t the front. Btw, Where'd ya get the helm?
     
  42. Soundwave

    Soundwave Sr Member

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    Very nice so far, getting proportions and everything right, is definetly going to be tough, as like you said it's going to be different in every image. Just find something that you like and looks right and stick with that, noones going to fault you on it.

    [​IMG]

    I've been talking to my cel dealers to try and get hold of some Jin Roh Settei sheets also, as those would be great to help with this project, but no luck so far - any production art from this movie is incredibley hard to get hold of.

    Here's some additional images, that may help you with some of the proportions and details.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  43. synasp

    synasp Sr Member

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    Any additional art would be really appreciated. If they can't be used on this project, I'd still like to look at them for personal enjoyment.

    Thanks very much for the specific feedback. Hopefully this picture addresses what you pointed out (let me know if it does or not):
    [attachmentid=7042]
    Since the final masks will be fiberglass, we can really pull out the fine, sharp details. The edges are therefore sharp and extra crispy for your enjoyment. ;) (not smooth and round like a vacformed pull)

    David
     
  44. synasp

    synasp Sr Member

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    Here's an example of the "squat face"... The mouth is now tiny, and the face is squeezed up into the mask. What gives?

    I'd like some 3rd party feedback.. :D
     
  45. temponaut

    temponaut Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I'm guessing that this is the animator's portrayal of the apparent shortening of a long object when it is viewed end-on. If the soldier in the image were to tilt his chin upwards a little more, the snout would appear to become shorter still and the face would seem to squeeze even farther into the mask. Of course, the animator is trying to show this three-dimensional effect through a two-dimensional medium, so it looks a bit funky.
     
  46. synasp

    synasp Sr Member

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    Oooooh--I never thought about it like that. So we're seeing the mouth from an angle that makes it look flat? That makes sense.... so then they're all Long Mouths?
     
  47. temponaut

    temponaut Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    That's my guess. :)
     
  48. NEKROFANATIC

    NEKROFANATIC Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I believe the actual helmet is based upon the M38 and not the M42 which would account for the larger dome.
     
  49. synasp

    synasp Sr Member

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    Do you mean the M35/M40 helmet? Possible, but isn't the M42 is actually larger? The rim of the M42 flares out (instead of rolls in).

    I don't know about the M38, though. Do you have pictures?
     
  50. NEKROFANATIC

    NEKROFANATIC Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Sorry, my bad, it was the M35 I was thinking about. I don't have a pic of one but here is an ebay link to one ( I know, I know, no live auctions, but these things are a dime a dozen...)

    http://cgi.ebay.ca/WW2-German-Army-M35-ste...1QQcmdZViewItem

    Nonetheless, I agree that there are many differing styles. Even I'm partial to the 'wolf snout' face mask. However, yours is just so * fine looking...
     

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