Ive been recast, edited

Discussion in 'Replica Props' started by replicaprops, Apr 4, 2006.

  1. replicaprops

    replicaprops Official Licensee RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZholykrap

    This guy recast a item I made and when I called him on it, and told him how I knew he recast me, he photo shopped the image to look different than my item.

    EDIT: The other item I thought might be also a recast may infact be his own. So I have removed the accusation of this. However, he still has recast my work.


    I got the typical response from him and he refuses to live by our rules.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2018
  2. Lawgiver

    Lawgiver Well-Known Member

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    Can we see the evidence that he recast something?
     
  3. replicaprops

    replicaprops Official Licensee RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    A couple weeks ago he listed a smallville key. The photo he had up is this one
    [​IMG]here is the current photo he is using[​IMG]
    I contacted him and told him he was recasting my key because I recognized a design feature in the hope symbol that was unique to my design. He then reposted the auction with the same photo and the photo had the hope symbol as well as the EL symbol altered. What he did is stretch the symbol out because I told him in the hope symbol that I had made the large circle was not perfectly round and was wider than long.
    He told me he had bought the mold from someone pre made. I told him to stop, and he said he would go out and get it laser engraved to shut me up.

    After I sent him the initial email, this was his reply

    "Hello,
    How am I selling copies of "your" key? I just traded a gentleman my freddy glove for his mold last Wednesday or thursday. I make these using resin and paint them myself. I'm also getting ready to make clear keys which I also know are not copies of your key. I don't think it was right emailing and putting blame on me for selling copies of your key. Have a great day."

    I then gave him the typical recasting is bad speach and he replied

    "Hello,
    Are the other sellers on ebay making the keys stealing from you too? I guess everyone must do a little something to their keys to make sure they don't look like yours. I'm in the process right now to solve this silly problem. I will redo this key and go to the town next to me and have it laser engraved so I wont hear any complaints from you or anyone else. I think it's silly for people to complain just because someone else starts selling an item that similar to what they're selling. You can look at my past auctions and ask anyone that has purchased from me and that if i've stolen someones work. When this auction ends you will no longer see a key that "looks" like yours. "

    So by looking at his current auction you can see he has simply photoshopped the image and has not gone and made the laser engraved version he said he would.
    There are other dealers selling this item and we happen to get along fine. I never have a problem with competition.
     
  4. nwjedidave

    nwjedidave Sr Member

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    i know that indy makes goonies keys as well..

    NWJEDI
    dave
     
  5. frosty

    frosty Sr Member

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    I am a member of another board were the person in question is a member, he is not a member here and so cannot defend himself, i don't see any recasting, i have seen pics of his sculpt for the goonies key and he is understandebly upset about being 'called out' and not being able to defend himself.
    I can post pics of his sculpt if need be, but if all it does is get the old clay press suggestions going then i won't bother
     
  6. juno

    juno Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Here's my Magnoli key:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. trekkieb47

    trekkieb47 Well-Known Member

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    Well didn't registration just open up?

    Berry
     
  8. frosty

    frosty Sr Member

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    not sure about that
    But here are pics of his sculpt in progress and finished key
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Looks different to me
     
  9. frosty

    frosty Sr Member

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    :angry so he did not recast someones work on here but did recast a piece of metal with some etching in.
    I don't see it myself, if i was calling someone a recaster i would have my facts straight before saying so.
     
  10. SithLord

    SithLord Sr Member

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    If you made those markings by hand on that key I can see every imperfection in the design that are carried over, except for one....

    T
     
  11. replicaprops

    replicaprops Official Licensee RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I had the Key photo etched from artwork I did in AI. The key he is selling was definitly molded from one of mine, I know my own work. I don't think I need to sit here and debate with everyone.

    My intention was to stop a recaster from getting out of hand and protect people on the RPF. It was not to start wars. If you all don't care about being recast, then fine.

    I have never called out a recaster in public to this date. I think those who know me here would consider me to be fair and honest. I would not have called him a recaster if I was not 100% sure he was stealing my work.

    I find it disturbing that no one cares about this issue.
     
  12. maniacman7

    maniacman7 Well-Known Member

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    Hello Darthscifi,

    I can see the difference and totally appreciate you bringing this to everyone's attention, Unfortunately the current status of the RPF has really gone down the tubes. IT seems as time goes on Recasting is not only the norm but is getting to the point of an acceptable practice since some feel it wasnt your "original" idea to begin with or if supply for something is not being met by the original artisan its okey dokey to recast in order to meet this demand. Its all sad but True and BTW Great job on the krypo necklace I hooked up with. My G.F. Loves it :):):):)

    Lance
    TR2640


     
  13. Scapey

    Scapey Sr Member

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    I'm pretty much against recasting myself, and usually if there IS an accusation of recasting made here, I'll amuse myself by emailing the seller and asking for some extra pics of the item.
    Normally, the reply is along the lines of "Sorry, my camera is broken".

    This time, the guy mailed me 6 photos of the sculpt - From the same set shown above.
    Not 100% conclusive that it's NOT a recast, but I'd say there are enough small differences that any accusation WOULD need more evidence behind it...
     
  14. frosty

    frosty Sr Member

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    I did not say i was not against recasting, i said that you needed to have solid evidence before saying he had recast the key.
    I do not see the reason in going to all the effort of casting a piece of metal with etching in, what would be the point? too many times people jump on someone as a recaster without proper proof, and when they are not members and cannot defend themselves i feel it is unfair.
    I am not saying your work is no good by the way, i am saying could he not have just come up with something similar to yours.
     
  15. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    I'm a little confused, we are talking about the eightangular Smallville item shown in post 3 right? How different can such apparently simple pieces be if they are based on a screen used prop? I'm just asking...
     
  16. Blad

    Blad Sr Member

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    After a brief search on google images I can see why darthscifi believes the item to be recast.

    The screen-shots show slightly diffent character sizes and shapes. Whereas the two shots darth show look almost identical including a couple of minute slips & thickness differences.

    I think the reason people aren't jumping around shaking their fists is because the prop does look comparatively simple as it's basically an octagon with small sympols inscribed.

    I think it's a shame, some of the smallest pieces I've made have taken the longest to make.
     
  17. teecrooz

    teecrooz Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I have keys from up to 8 different makers. None of them are exactly the same. There are always shifts in position to the edges, position to the other symbols, and shapes of the characters used. The one from the origional auction is definitely Rob's, no ifs ands or buts.

    What other board is this auctioner on? btw.
     
  18. Gytheran

    Gytheran Sr Member

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    And all this time I thought it was because we've had enough drama lately... :lol

    Thanks for the heads up.
     
  19. Blad

    Blad Sr Member

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    You're welcome - glad to be of service.

    Anything else I can do for anyone today?
     
  20. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    Ah, that makes sense. Would love to see pictures of the same item made by different artisans. That could be so cool and will definitely show me how different such apparently "simple" items can be.

    Cheers and thanks for the heads up.
     
  21. Ben_Forsaken

    Ben_Forsaken Active Member

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    So it's ok for an RPF member to take a free rubies mask, a mask that is currently in production by a company, and make plaster bucks for vacurforming out of it. To RECAST a mask for sale through this forum. That's ok to do.

    But this guy copying an engraved etching is NOT ok? Why? Because he's not a member?

    This board loves to lament on the state of recasting these days, but I don't see it being any better here.

    This double standard is what makes alot of people dislike this forum.
     
  22. frosty

    frosty Sr Member

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    good point,only those chosen few are allowed to do it, and yes this place can be a bit snooty and elitist, lots of great info, but a lot of Drama queens.
     
  23. Ben_Forsaken

    Ben_Forsaken Active Member

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    Exactly. I love making and collecting stuff and have for years. But this board I could just never understand. There are some really really talented people here and that's inspiring, but other things, like the pic in the Vendetta thread where someone blatently recasted a Rubies mask and is offering it for sale?? I don't understand that at all. I know you sculpted one Frosty, and I did too. It never crossed my mind to make a copy of it.

    But now that I see what the RPF has taught me, let me go over my collection and see what I can dump some plaster on. **rolls eyes**

    It's just ridiculous. It's like recasting is allright if it's something that people here want.

    BAD EXAMPLE........................
     
  24. nickytea

    nickytea Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I believe you are reffering to me.
     
  25. Ben_Forsaken

    Ben_Forsaken Active Member

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    "When a cheap, flimsy piece of plastic is selling for upwards of SIXTY DOLLARS, I start to think that something is wrong."

    You start to think you should be selling too huh?? My point is this, alot of people took the time to SCULPT a Vendetta mask.

    Others just recasted a Rubies one to make a quick buck.

    Which one are you?
     
  26. Immortal Goat

    Immortal Goat Well-Known Member

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    Well, now, to be fair, I do believe he had said that he was going to change the nose detail and the beard to be accurate. While it isn't the same as casting your OWN mold, it is certainly different than a straight-up recast of an existing product. It is IMPROVING an existing product, by making it more accurate and durable.

    On the subject of recasting in general, I have only this to say:
    It depends on the circumstances. IF you are doing it for yourself, and not for financial gain, it shouldn't be a problem. If you are planning on making money off of your cast, you better put enough work in changing it to be different enough that your product is not the exact same thing. Making a cast of something, then making it more accurate, and selling it shouldn't be a problem, really, because you are at least doing SOME work on the project.

    Now, this all goes with the honor among thieves thing. To be honest, NO ONE should be casting "V" masks and selling them. NO ONE should be casting smallville keys or anything of the sort. You guys are just lucky that they let you do it and still make money. So, yeah, recasting is bad, but in a hobby that is already on the fringe of legality, you have to expect that kind of stuff.
     
  27. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    That's impossible. They'd have to render you unconscious and use a heck of a lot of silicon.
     
  28. maniacman7

    maniacman7 Well-Known Member

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    UH UH Can I have a recast of darthscifi tooo PWEASE :lol :lol :lol
    He'd look great next to all the stuff I've gotten from him so far :D :D


    Lance



     
  29. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    LOL, I needed a good laugh...
     
  30. HDPE

    HDPE Well-Known Member

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    :lol :lol :lol
     
  31. replicaprops

    replicaprops Official Licensee RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I would rather see prop replica accuratizing than molding and casting it to add accuracy.
    Model builders are commended when they fix a problem with a model kit. The new Enterprise bridge or landing bay add on kit only increases the sales of the original model.

    If someone makes a prop replica that has a problem, why not offer a solution to the problem instead of stealing the foundation of the original persons work all together.

    When Don Post sold masks, lots of people who are here today simply sold tusks and lenses for the CA helmet. There were few to none recasting the whole helmet to fix the problems.

    So I think the statement that its alright if your improving it is invalid.
     
  32. Tatooine_Todd

    Tatooine_Todd Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    No offense, but if that's how you two feel, why did you choose to join?
     
  33. Immortal Goat

    Immortal Goat Well-Known Member

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    Well, let's just take the V mask as an example. The Rubies V mask has several inaccuracies, especially if one wants to make a comic-book version (as I am planning to do in the future). I don't think it is wrong to take something that bears a good resemblance to what you want, and then build up from that foundation to what you specifically want. I honestly don't think that there would be anything wrong with just using it as a base to create a different enough product. That's just me, though.
     
  34. Ben_Forsaken

    Ben_Forsaken Active Member

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    well for me I started lurking years ago and actually joined about a year ago. I joined because I saw the most accurate SW stuff here, and I love SW almost as much as I love horror. There were good discussions good, good prop analysis, and generally cool things to look at and read about.

    I didn't say I don't like it here, I was merely commenting on something that I've seen over and over. Some people here recast and it's fine, others do it and it causes a sh*tstorm, blacklisting, etc. etc. etc.

    Personally I think in regards to recasting there is a grey area so huge it's almost ignored. Is it allright to recast a 1975 Don Post Kirk mask to make Myers? Sure it is. That mask is old, not in production, * near impossible to find, and most people convert them into Myers. A totally seperate mask then a Kirk.

    However do I think it's right to recast a mask that is currently in production? No I do not. Rubies has the sculpt, the rights, and the license to this particular product. If someone were to totally sculpt it from scratch and offers copies I feel that's different then recasting the rubies one, adding an extra notch to the moustache and then saying you corrected it and now it's ok to sell copies. I don't see that. I don't see anything on that mask that is going to be so hugely corrected as to justify recasting it.

    but that's just my opinion, and at the end of the day we all usually have different ones.
     
  35. Immortal Goat

    Immortal Goat Well-Known Member

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    Well, when I say "make it more accurate", I mean some dramatic changes, such as making the eyes curve upwards correctly, correcting the nose shape, extending the beard below the chin, changing the general jawline slightly, narrow the mouth a bit, and other such changes. Basically, it's just using the Rubies as a template for a completely new mask. You have the general details to work off of, but at the end of the project, your mask will look nothing like the original.
     
  36. Ben_Forsaken

    Ben_Forsaken Active Member

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    well see that sounds more like using the rubies as an armature. Whereas the pic I saw posted said, "This is what I'll be using to vacuform off of."

    If you're using the rubies as a template/armature, why not fill the Rubies with clay, build on top of it with clay, fix what you what, alginate mold, plaster buck. That to me seems alot less like recasting. But whatever.
     
  37. Immortal Goat

    Immortal Goat Well-Known Member

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    Well, while I haven't actually tried casting anything, I can imagine that it would be easier to fill a mask with liquid plaster to capture every detail instead of trying to shove clay into every nook and cranny you can find.
     
  38. Ben_Forsaken

    Ben_Forsaken Active Member

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    yeah alot easier. It's a morality call.
     
  39. frosty

    frosty Sr Member

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    No offense, but if that's how you two feel, why did you choose to join?
    [snapback]1220630[/snapback]​
    [/quote]
    I joined as there is a lot of great prop making that goes on on here with great information, and sharing info is the way the hobby grows, but along with the good there is also the bad, this is true of a lot of places on the net, on here there is the longtimers who seem to think the newbies have no valid points to raise, the double standards, these are a few things wrong, but as i said its a great board, and these are just my opinions,opinions are allowed are'nt they, (checks rules) :D
     
  40. DarthBish

    DarthBish Well-Known Member

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    so........If in doing some research with the intention of scratchbuilding a prop, I'm on the RPF and see some modifications, or little touches to design that I decide to incorporate into mine, it's ok....

    However, if for one reason or another I decide to sell it on ebay, am I guilty of a type of recasting??
     
  41. nickytea

    nickytea Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    For the record, you are almost completely on the money for what im doing to the V mask. It is not just adding a "notch" to the beard. The nose will be completely reworked, the above eyebrow creases deepened, many details will be re-etched for prominence in the plastic (which will be over twice as thick as the rubies.)
    Also, the entire face has been narrowed, (the most necessary change, in my opinion. Whether or not we can blame rubies flimsy plastic or the actual mold, their mask is SUPER wide) the jawline reworked, and the chin smoothed into a more accurate shape. (the curvature didnt sit as boldly as on the real mask) The gotee will be lowered to a managable protrudence (for a vac machine, anyway) and can always be augmented on the actual pulls.

    The one that i DIDNT notice however, was the eyes, thank you very much for pointing that out. That will be my next change for sure. (dont know how that one slipped by me.)
    And as far as "looking nothing like the original," I do think that the rubies iteslf was a decent sculpt, so I dont want to be distant in a negative way, but I DEFINATLEY want the changes to be noticed overall for accuracy's sake.

    I do regret showing the raw buck now, after viewing the comments in this thread. I will be sure to refrain from posting progress shots, and just cut to the chase from now on.
     
  42. Darth Domain

    Darth Domain Well-Known Member

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    Here we go again, so in a previous thread i asked is it OK to recast rubies vader as long as i've made the changes to it to make it more my own. Looks like i can. Wow. i'm gonna make some money, any one want one?
     
  43. Immortal Goat

    Immortal Goat Well-Known Member

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    To Nickthesaberman: Glad I could be of help. And please, don't let a couple of people that misunderstood your intentions prevent you from posting progress shots. That would be doing a disservice to anyone who may have the intention of doing something similar (I being one of them). I, for one, am looking forward to seeing the improvements that you do to the Rubies model.

    To Darth Domain: That, IMO is completely different. When it comes to the Vader helmet, there are modifications that you can do to the original helmet to make it more accurate without recasting it. Also, I'm not even sure if the Rubies V mask will go on sale by the company. The Vader, however, is something that they are definitely currently selling, and even if you recast it, change it, and sell it, people will see it and say "That looks like a modified Rubies". With the V, there is enough room for changes where that will not be the case.
     
  44. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    Customizing for yourself is one thing, making molds of that custom job is recasting and stealing someone elses work, with your modifications on it. Offer a tutorial on how to make the changes and let people make their own modifications to their own masks instead of offering the lazy route.

    Just my opinion.
     
  45. Ben_Forsaken

    Ben_Forsaken Active Member

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    "so........If in doing some research with the intention of scratchbuilding a prop, I'm on the RPF and see some modifications, or little touches to design that I decide to incorporate into mine, it's ok....

    However, if for one reason or another I decide to sell it on ebay, am I guilty of a type of recasting??"

    If they know you and are cool with you? Probably not. If noone knows you you'll probably be blacklisted and have alot of sh*t talked about you.

    I Like what NoHumorMan said, : "Customizing for yourself is one thing, making molds of that custom job is recasting and stealing someone elses work, with your modifications on it. Offer a tutorial on how to make the changes and let people make their own modifications to their own masks instead of offering the lazy route."

    This is what I'm talking about though when I say the 'grey area' it's really confusing how sometimes it's considered 'ok' to blatantly recast something, then other times it's not. And alot of the times it really seems to come down to who the person is. If it's an 'old timer' then it's allright, if it's a 'newbie' then it's recasting, the guys a piece of sh*t, recasting is a crime, etc. etc, etc. Lets all write eBay and try to ruin his auctions.

    It's almost silly
     
  46. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    No, that wouldn't be recasting, since you didn't make a cast of someone elses work. The word "recast" means "a cast of a cast", nothing more. If you see modifications someone else has made to his or her item and you decide to use those modifications on your own item and you make them yourself, then no casting was involved. Get it? I think that is what people sometimes misinterpret when the word "recast" is used, 'cause recast does not mean that you incorporated the same modifications into your own item, which someone else has done to his or her item and shown pictures of here.

    It is okay to be inspired by someone elses modifications and doing them on your own item - since that is NOT recasting, since you are making the modifications yourself. Recasting is when you physically make a mold of someone else's item and makes casts from that. You didn't do the modifications yourself or was inspired to do them by watching pictures of what other people had done: you simply and directly stole their modifications by casting their item with their modifications.

    Yes, it is stupid. But then again. If you see it happen, no matter who's doing it, then you call them out on it. Don't buy their stuff and don't agree with the people who thinks that it is okay and let them know that they are wrong. That's what I'm doing and I hope that people will let me know, if I neglect to call someone a recaster and refuse to buy from that person, if it has been proven without a doubt that what he or she is selling is recast, simply because I may want that item and may consider them a friend.

    We all have to decide with ourselves what kind of people we want to be. No one can decide that but ourselves. Don't buy from recasters, no matter who they are. That's at least what I try to live by... (stress "try", 'cause I may have strong convictions, but I am not perfect and can make mistakes and poor judgment calls... just like anybody else.)
     
  47. Ben_Forsaken

    Ben_Forsaken Active Member

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    From what I hear, recasting is alot bigger, more common, and more of a problem in the model world then in the mask world, which is what I'm more familier with.

    My friend collects and builds tons of models and he says there are alot of cruddy recasts that come from Asia or something.

    Then again I know another guy who almost always buys recasts because he really can't afford any higher priced models. I've seen some pics of original models and recasted models and it was actually pretty obvious which was the original. Not only were the models recasted, but they were done really badly it looked like. I don't do models but it seemed like all those seams and joints not lining up would be more of a headache then anything else.
     
  48. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    I only have one thing to say to that: if he cannot afford the originals, he should learn to live without. Buying recasts is helping in destroying the model kit community.

    There are hundreds of model kits I want, but cannot afford... and I have learned that that is just how it is. I would also like a Porsche, but I cannot afford that either...

    I only buy originals: yes, they cost more, but then you have to think carefully which ones you really want and have to live without some other stuff in order to save up for that figure. Yes, I have a few recasts, but those were bought before I learned the difference between original and recast and what it means to the model kit community.

    http://www.3demonic.com/recast_faq.htm
     

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