It's Sad...

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wonko

Member
Lflank said:
Again, I agree.  I too saw it in the theater (several times, because I liked it so much) back in 1987. Two of the things I liked most about it were:

1.  After decades of cheesy-looking stop-action monsters and even cheesier-looking guys in rubber suits and fur (the "cantina" scene in Star Wars made me groan repeatedly because so many costumes there looked abysmally bad even by 1970's standards), the Pred was one of the first to LOOK REAL (the xeno in "Alien" was another). The mandibles were something we had never seen before, the shoulder cannon and wristblades were new and unique, even the glow-in-the-dark blood was new and looked fantastic. Thank all the Hollywood gods that the producers didn't stick with the original "chameleon" concept (it was a fascinating concept, but just not do-able with 1980's technology) and brought Stan in.

2. "Predator" had what were, to me, very apparent social and political undertones which fit in perfectly with the world of the late-Cold War 80's. Remember, these were the Reagan Years, the US and the USSR were at each others throats, everyone thought the nukes would start flying at any time, we were spending more money than God on an ever-bigger military machine, invasion of Central America seemed imminent---and here's this movie that says "you think your big military machine is bad-ass? Well here's something that hunts your best-of-the-best heroes like rabbits, skins them, and hangs them up by their feet". It was a wonderfully subversive message for the time. The best scifi is about *us*, not about space aliens and FX. The best scifi comments on humans, as they are today, and as they probably always will be. In an era where superhero movies and story-less FX extravaganzas dominate the box office, I miss the idea that scifi is about us, and is a way to slyly comment on us and our times. Most scifi today has lost that, and is just about selling merchandised toys and happy meals.
While I couldn't agree more with you, we have to remember that we are discussing this with children that have never really experienced "real life".  Try discussing politics or current world events with kids today and they look at you like your speaking another language.  I'm as guilty as the next guy of letting my kids spend way to much time in cyber space, and not helping them experience life the way it was for me growing up.  As great as all the advancements in technology are, I fear they are ruining the youth of today.  When my 13 year old has a tantrum because she wasn't allowed to upgrade to the Iphone 5, and my 7 year old son is crying because he can't have one yet, I just shake my head and remember the days of having to get off my lazy ass to change to one of the other 7 TV channels that we got.  

THAT'S what's really sad...

Brian
 

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Lflank

Well-Known Member
wonko said:
I fear they are ruining the youth of today.  


I do agree.  On the other hand, every generation in history has always said "today's kids are the worst ever !!"  It's what our parents said about us; it's what our kids will say about their kids; it's what cavemen said about theirs and future Mars colonists will say about theirs.  Part of the job of being a teenager, after all, is to piss off your parents as much as possible.  ;)
wonko said:
When my 13 year old has a tantrum because she wasn't allowed to upgrade to the Iphone 5, and my 7 year old son is crying because he can't have one yet, I just shake my head and remember the days of having to get off my lazy ass to change to one of the other 7 TV channels that we got.  THAT'S what's really sad...


I remember when my grandfather (bless his departed soul) got his first TV remote control.  He kept it--you guessed it--on top of his TV. When he wanted to change a channel, he'd get up, walk over to the TV, pick up the remote, walk back to the couch, sit down, pick the channel he wanted, then get up and put the remote back on top of the TV. The whole concept of "remote control" just seemed to escape him.  ;)

On the other hand, he had cable (because he lived in an area where he couldn't get TV reception), so he was far more cutting-edge technology than my parents were.  When he got HBO (he was one of the first) I practically camped out in his living room.  
 

th3 pr3dat0r

New Member
Sophomore year in highschool I was in art and I was bored so I started to draw predator. This girl comes up and asks "is that alien vs predator?" I sigh and say "no its just predator"... Double fail right there.. 
 

XilianX2010

New Member
When it comes too CGI and visual effects, I have feelings for both of them.

CGI, though today generation always looks at good CGI in a movie, they forget about the goodness of old effects. However, they shouldn't say that those movies suck or are terrible because it isn't CGI, because it was done, like 10 to 20 years ago. That was pretty impressive for that generation, it was like our CGI to them. So they shouldn't disrespect it because it's an old film, it's considered a classic because how good it was, and how much a step closer it took in visual effects. Like how Avatar will be like a classic because how advanced the CGI was that James Cameron put forth. Though he didn't invent motion-capture CGI, but he made it more than we ever saw. Hence why people were so impressed with it when it came out. But they shouldn't over use CGI that much, then they forget about the plot and story, and acting. Like how they remade Total Recall. I guess they just did it too see how good it looked in CGI, and they destroyed the story. CGI is a good thing to use, but don't think people are dumb enough to get distracted by the effects too not see the story going down hill.

Visual Effects, a lot kids now a days see them as fake and unrealistic, only because they never grew up with what we grew up with. People think Godzilla (1998) is better because he's CGI, and "looks better" than the original, and the old one was dumb and stupid because it looks fake and because it's a man in a rubber suit. Yet the story in Gojira was far more interesting and better than the ****** story in Godzilla (1998), and basically ruined Godzilla reputation. People think that anything with visual effects are fake and stupid, but yet never look and see how much of a great movie it is, and why it's far more popular than their movie with CGI.

Visual effects allow people too look at the screen and use their imagination to see the realism in it, and believe it's real, and see how it looks real, because it's right there, and you could touch it, but CGI does that too. You know it's fake, and CGI, but sit there and believe it's real, and push people's imagination, to have that sense of imagination to try and look past the CGI and see how it could be real. Like Avatar, has some much CGI, but you know it's fake, but you look at it and have a feeling it looks real. As for Predator, looking at the creature and know that it's fake but it's right there and you could touch it.

Both push people's imaginations in different ways, and are both good styles to use, but use in moderation, in today's generation not too much CG or visual effects, but even both in one movie, to kinda please anyone who likes the other. 

Like Doctor Who, even in 2012, do they still use makeup, visual effects, and costumes, but also can add in realistic CGI, and make a great show from it. :)
 

XilianX2010

New Member
th3 pr3dat0r 0f d3ath said:
Sophomore year in highschool I was in art and I was bored so I started to draw predator. This girl comes up and asks "is that alien vs predator?" I sigh and say "no its just predator"... Double fail right there.. 
Happened to me too! Also one time walked into our school library because one of my friends (teacher) wanted to see my mask. So I put it on and walked i to show. Of course, bunch of 6th graders were there. They were's impressed, but one kid yelled out, "Hey that's from Alien vs Predator!" I said no, it's just a Predator. He actually said "What's the difference?" I almost went over and smacked him! (Not really, i was just ticked that these kids had no idea,) My teacher saved me by saying "She doesn't have the Alien," She seen the originals so she knows. 
 

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Lflank

Well-Known Member
XilianX2010 said:
But they shouldn't over use CGI that much, then they forget about the plot and story, and acting. Like how they remade Total Recall. I guess they just did it too see how good it looked in CGI, and they destroyed the story. CGI is a good thing to use, but don't think people are dumb enough to get distracted by the effects too not see the story going down hill.


I think you are absolutely right.  Movies are, at core, about story-telling. If you tell a good story, people will forgive cheesy acting and FX (just look at the popularity of the old Dr Who TV series, which had an FX budget of, what, five bucks a show?). But if your story sucks (cough cough cough Transformers cough) then it doesn't matter how stellar your FX are, the movie still sucks.

Too many film studios today just want to show us all their dazzling CGI FX. Gee, that's nice, but it's like watching somebody's demo reel.  Nice eye candy, but boring after ten minutes. Tell me a good story, on the other hand, and I'm yours for the next several hours.
 

munson

New Member
Yea, most people who aren't even into the Predator half as much as we are consider the AVP, AVPr, and Predators as "Predator" movies.  The original was very hard to live up to.  I will agree with the behind the scenes in Predators where they talk about "how" the original was shot and it was shot perfectly.  You could "feel" being there in every scene.  There was a story and it flowed very well, but you still couldn't tell what would happen next.  It was very well written. 

I like most of the backstory of AVP.  I think it grasps well that humans worshipped them, etc...  that's about it.  The blades are way too long and the armor is way too much.  Once scar took off the mask, that was it.  The way the mandibles opened too.  Just...wow.

AVPr at least gave us a Pred more relateable to the first two movies.  The story was "okay".  I liked the Predalien, pretty interesting design.

Predators?  Well, they "say" they only used a select few lines to pay homage to the original but to me it was a shear mix of AVP and Predator.  I like that they took it back to a jungle, but you could really sit there and watch P1 on one tv, Predators on another  and almost see the similarity in it.  The same number of people.  A mini gun.  A "relevant" person in the movie, which was Nolan who "spoke" briefly about them to give a little history.  Same ending, the "hero" human covered in mud.  I think they overdid the beating of berzerker which made the new breed look like chumps.  RR spoke about not considering the movies after P1, yet they killed two of them off within five minutes.  The actual new breed design looks more like the creature from the black lagoon, given mandibles and dreadlocks and "boom", here's your predator.  If you look at the behind the sceens clips from sabers photobucket, you can see that the bio doesn't even fit the full mask.  At least on P1 and P2, the bio "fit" the predators head.  The mandibles also were never designed to fully close and before he took the bio off, you can see them just pulled in sideways.  I really like the armor though, minus some things like the lack of shins and FULL gauntlets.  The missing netting really bothered me.

For 2013, I'm going to redesign the "new bread" and align them to fit more into the Predator, Predator 2, and lost hunter looks and maybe redo some parts of the movie.  That's my big project for 2013.  Dubing them "hybrids".  Should be fun.
 

XilianX2010

New Member
munson said:
Yea, most people who aren't even into the Predator half as much as we are consider the AVP, AVPr, and Predators as "Predator" movies.  The original was very hard to live up to.  I will agree with the behind the scenes in Predators where they talk about "how" the original was shot and it was shot perfectly.  You could "feel" being there in every scene.  There was a story and it flowed very well, but you still couldn't tell what would happen next.  It was very well written. 

I like most of the backstory of AVP.  I think it grasps well that humans worshipped them, etc...  that's about it.  The blades are way too long and the armor is way too much.  Once scar took off the mask, that was it.  The way the mandibles opened too.  Just...wow.

AVPr at least gave us a Pred more relateable to the first two movies.  The story was "okay".  I liked the Predalien, pretty interesting design.

Predators?  Well, they "say" they only used a select few lines to pay homage to the original but to me it was a shear mix of AVP and Predator.  I like that they took it back to a jungle, but you could really sit there and watch P1 on one tv, Predators on another  and almost see the similarity in it.  The same number of people.  A mini gun.  A "relevant" person in the movie, which was Nolan who "spoke" briefly about them to give a little history.  Same ending, the "hero" human covered in mud.  I think they overdid the beating of berzerker which made the new breed look like chumps.  RR spoke about not considering the movies after P1, yet they killed two of them off within five minutes.  The actual new breed design looks more like the creature from the black lagoon, given mandibles and dreadlocks and "boom", here's your predator.  If you look at the behind the sceens clips from sabers photobucket, you can see that the bio doesn't even fit the full mask.  At least on P1 and P2, the bio "fit" the predators head.  The mandibles also were never designed to fully close and before he took the bio off, you can see them just pulled in sideways.  I really like the armor though, minus some things like the lack of shins and FULL gauntlets.  The missing netting really bothered me.

For 2013, I'm going to redesign the "new bread" and align them to fit more into the Predator, Predator 2, and lost hunter looks and maybe redo some parts of the movie.  That's my big project for 2013.  Dubing them "hybrids".  Should be fun.
Sounds cool Munson! Though I don't like Predators as much as the original, I still find some good things to it. I guess I find myself liking some of it, because as a fan, I just want to see more Predator, and not just keep re-watching Predator and Predator 2. I don't mind if they do new things...Just keep Predator Predator.
 

TriLaser

Sr Member
I'v said it before and i will say it again. These new films happen when fan boys try and make films. They push it to far because they think that's what everyone wants to see. I'm always up for seeing new predator designs, but as far as the story's for the films go well they have pretty much ****** them up. Avpr. That was like throwing the alien and predator on to the set of dawsons creek.
 

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starbeast62

New Member
"Am gettin lost reading all of this but in 48 hours am going to read the lot while blitzed( cant wait)..anyhoo  i loved the old Godzilla movies as the Japanese had seen King kong..they thought it was a guy in a suit..however they went the distance and put a guy in a rubber suit and you know it is but its so good,and also what got me was the great attention to detail they went to building cities,bridges,harbours,hundreds of model cars and trucks just to get the effect..it even harks back to ww2 when they were preparing for Pearl harbour they went at length to build the whole thing to model scale!!..i admire them for thier striving of accuracy as films should be.
Alot of new films coming out are going back to old school as its cheaper and maintaining an air of realism..which i think gets lost with cgi..but saying that it does have its merits..if you want to go see a complete set build check out The Ten commandments with Charlton "keep yer vest oan"..now that is some bit o work imagine doing that now?..well am off to work and salvating for my two days off an getting ready tae get it oan...get along there little doggie..yahoo!!
 

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