International movie releases before U.S.

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Movie Talk' started by Darkturbo04, Apr 27, 2012.

  1. Darkturbo04

    Darkturbo04 Active Member

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    Does anyone know why Battleship and The Avengers have been released outside of the U.S. weeks before us Yankees get to see them?

    Its just makes it easier for bootleg/pirated copies to make an appearance on the Internet right?
     
  2. VaultUK

    VaultUK Well-Known Member

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    No matter where the film is out first it is just as easy for it to be bootlegged. I for one in living in the UK think it's great the films out now normally we have to wait.
     
  3. wannab

    wannab Sr Member

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    I'll take a stab at it.

    Maybe it's a sort of hype gin. These type of action movies typically do great box office internationally whether it is a good movie or not. They can take the huge box office numbers to gin up the hype machine to get the domestic audience stirred up by saying, hey look here, this movie did X$ it has to be good -- go see it! Yes we (the general we) fall for it for the most part.

    My two coppers worth anyway.




    Doug
     
  4. jlee562

    jlee562 Sr Member

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    Simple economics. The world wide gross is larger than the US gross. Movies are no longer made just for US audiences (this, I would argue, has led to a serious "dumbing down" of films which in turn has led to lower quality films).
     
  5. terryr

    terryr Sr Member

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    Maybe they can get more money for the rentals that way.

    Or, if the movie has problems it could be 'saved' for the US version.
     
  6. EyeofSauron

    EyeofSauron Master Member

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    i could reverse the question for most movies... be happy that the us usually gets it first, i had to wait for 5 months for the muppets release
     
  7. firesprite

    firesprite Master Member

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    You're kidding about this, right?
     
  8. jlee562

    jlee562 Sr Member

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    Absolutely not.
     
  9. firesprite

    firesprite Master Member

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    I really don't think that the creators of Jersey Shore said 'We'll kill in the European markets with this!'. The masses who make shows like that popular are the reason that movies have been dumbed down. Not Europe. :rolleyes
     
  10. Jedi2016

    Jedi2016 Sr Member

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    It's definitely not the piracy/bootleg issue, because pretty much every bootleg movie originates in Europe anyway, not the U.S.

    I can kind of see them doing it on films that they're not 100% sure about.. if it does well in Europe, they'll push the release in the U.S.. But I don't see that being an issue with The Avengers.

    What gets me about some of the releases are the really early ones.. where it's out in Europe six or eight months before the U.S. release. Taken was like that.. you could actually get a DVD rip of the movie online before it even hit theaters over here.
     
  11. DuneMuadDib

    DuneMuadDib Sr Member

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    So movie-goers outside the US are too dumb to appreciate films aimed solely at US audiences?
     
  12. Leigh

    Leigh Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I dont quite understand :confused could you elaborate on this??
     
  13. EyeofSauron

    EyeofSauron Master Member

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    i think some people here should rethink their oppinions. dumbing down movies for europe is just plain offensive. also, i dont see why this is a problem, as its usually the other way around with releases, see my previous comment.
     
  14. RooBee

    RooBee Active Member

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    Reminds me of "Phantom Menace"... It was released in Germany in September 1999. EyeofSauron is right, usually the U.S. have the opportunity to see most movies before the rest of the world can. In my opinion there is no reason to anger about 2-4 movies a year which are released a few days earlier in another part of the world.
     
  15. jlee562

    jlee562 Sr Member

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    Who said anything about Europe? The second largest market for films is now China (previously, it was Japan).

    Let me put it this way. Was Pirates 4 the best of the series?

    Perhaps "dumbing down" wasn't the right phrase to use. Rather, simplification. Plot details that rely on certain cultural understandings are bound to be eliminated. But everyone understands the simple dichotomy between good and evil. It's all about target demographics. In the US, the big demographic is 18-34, but in Japan, the market is largely middle aged women. Now extrapolate the difference in demographics between the US, Japan, China, Europe, Australia, etc, etc, etc, etc. You have to cast wider net. And in doing so, you inevitably have to aim for the lowest common denominator.

    I'm really surprised that this isn't a prima facie case to you folks.

    Because it's already a topic in academic circles and the like, e.g.:
    http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic152447.files/rosen_Hollywood.pdf
     
  16. letmebestormy

    letmebestormy Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    No idea...but this happy circumstance allowed me to see Avengers in Iceland today. They love Thor here!
     
  17. Leigh

    Leigh Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    International is everywhere outside the U.S. from your point of view isn't it?

    How often is the 4th instalment of a series of films any good....not often!

    Different word, same implication. Sounds as if you implying that the rest of the world wouldn't understand the plot if the film was made with an all American audience in mind, so the plot is simplified therefor diminishing quality in order to generate more profit.

    :unsure

    Anyway, I'm still going to enjoy Prometheus when it comes out over here on the 1st....MWAHAHAHAH! even if it is simplified for my benefit :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012
  18. Kt Templar

    Kt Templar Well-Known Member

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    The only one where there was an obvious reason that I can think of is the Bond franchise where traditionally the UK gets it a week before the US.

    For Avengers it may be something to do with the way various school holidays and public holidays fall here or in the US affecting when this was scheduled, in both countries.

    It's awesome BTW. No one mentions it's over 2 hours long as it FLIES by.

    Let Joss do his take on Wonder Woman!
     
  19. jlee562

    jlee562 Sr Member

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    You must be acting intentionally obtuse. Let's review the responses to my initial comment:
    Now, where in the OP did it specify Europe? Where in my post did I specify Europe?

    Neither the OP, nor my initial response singled out Europe. Therefore the two responses which talk about Europe are either red herrings, or straw man fallacies.

    Hence my response "who said anything about Europe?" As my second post made clear, it's actually not about Europe and really more about Asia than anything else.

    If anything, European films are being dumbed down for American audiences. See, for example, Luc Besson's Taxi series in France, and the American reboot with Jimmy Fallon and Queen Latifah.

    No, I am implying exactly what I said in my second post.

    Films now routinely gross more outside the US than they do inside the US. Look at this from a strictly economic point of view. If you're marketing a product to one country, you have to find a profitable demographic in that country. But if you're marketing a product globally, you have to find a profitable demographic in many countries, with different cultural sensitivities, different cultural understandings, and different meanings.

    Look, it's easy for you to cut out the first sentence of my explanation and put in a some counter argument, but you're not actually dealing with what my argument is. And the argument I'm making is not really all that controversial, and intuitive in terms of economics.

    If the largest segment of movie goers in Japan are middle aged women, and the largest segment of movie goers in the US are young adults 18-34, if you're making a big budget Hollywood film, you're really going to sit there and say that you're not going to find a common denominator between those two groups?

    Now extrapolate that to every other country that the film is going to be seen in.

    And look at the movies that are grossing huge overseas. It's the big budget blockbuster films. Avengers, Avatar, Harry Potter, etc, etc, etc. It's not The Tree of Life (voted best film by Sight & Sound for 2011). Heck, it's not even The Artist. Now look, I like explosions and fun films as much as the next guy, but I'm also not going to say that they are qualitatively equivalent to the artistic value found in any number of films that don't gross a bazillion dollars.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012
  20. firesprite

    firesprite Master Member

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    Never mind.

    Nothing to see here. Move along.
     
  21. wannab

    wannab Sr Member

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    Yeah, my reasoning had nothing to do with an international audience being dumb either. My opinion was based on past track records for these types of movies (big budget carnival rides) they (almost) always do huge business internationally regardless of quality. It isn't a "dumber" audience, but sheer volume of audience (bigger pool of folks than just the US).

    I still think this approach is a "hype gin" to maximize the domestic turnout. The US audience has become more jaded and apathetic. That, and there are more distractions for eating up time -- vid games, internet, etc.

    I'm not saying they (studios) won't make a butt load of money either way, but they will have more of a (marketing) edge to pry the US audience off their comfy home theater couch. That little extra bit of buzz (big int. box office numbers) will cause more folks hit the theater (to see what the big deal is) rather than wait for Netfilx or Bluray releases a few months later. They will use any edge they can get, because there are many more ways for folks to blow entertainment funds.

    I think the conversion to digital projection and distribution has allowed this to even be an option, because there is less money risk distribution and logistic wise, as there isn't the cost of actual film on reels and getting those reels out to theaters.




    Doug
     
  22. Mr.Spider

    Mr.Spider Well-Known Member

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    actual bottom line is.... with disney buying marvel, but paramount being the original publisher/distributer, movie studios often cut deals and costs by doubling up on distribution..... paramount gets to keep their name on avengers, disney pays for marketing,commercials.... etc etc, and disney takes rights for distribution for us, and paramount gets international, so usually what happens is the international version will get released a week or so early. to one...... as has been stated, the international market can make more than u.s though at a slower rate,hence the early release. unless in this case where its made 70 mill so far and keeps climbing



    look at john carter.... it barely made 60 mill here....but made well over 200 mill overseas..... sadly, which sucks, caused that movie was awesome. i digress, AVENGERS !
     
  23. TV8

    TV8 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why we got it first down here, but I'm glad we did because AVENGERS WAS AWESOME! I'm going back again tomorrow night.
     
  24. jlee562

    jlee562 Sr Member

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    :facepalm

    It's not about people being dumb. Nobody is calling anyone dumb. If that's what you got out of it, you're not understanding the argument.

    But the answer to the question is still economics.
     
  25. wannab

    wannab Sr Member

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    Wasn't talking to you. Just wanted to be sure my (original) post wasn't perceived in that light.



    Doug
     
  26. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    So the "dumbing down" that's discussed ad nauseum here on the board is in your opinion because they are no longer made just for US audiences? People outside the US has never had an issue with made for US audience movies before, so if those money crunchers at the studios actually think that dumbing down movies for worldwide appeal is needed... they are ****ing insultingly moronic.

    My general thought is and has always been that because they are losing on the US market, they feel they have to "dumb down" the movie to pull in the lazy US crowd. They should probably just say **** the US crowd and rely solely on international grosses, meaning we'll get better films because of that.

    Those distractions are worldwide... so the fact things are losing in the US... can only be a US issue.

    Same happens to us when movies are out early in the US and comes later in Europe.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2012
  27. wannab

    wannab Sr Member

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    Carsten,
    Read my whole opinion, it is cumulative, not just one of the things I mention (read: That and...). Yes the distractions are worldwide, but that combined with the other things adds up to my overall point.

    Now as far as "made for international audiences" goes, it's not dumbing down, it is making it less US-centric and more palatable to international audiences (more relate-able = more marketable = more money). The dumbing down comes in when you want to hit the (generally speaking) young movie going demographic. That, more often than not, is the first "ingredient" these days I'm afraid.





    Doug
     
  28. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    I did. But the distractions are worldwide... so I'm not really buying the argument that that's why the US audience don't go to the movies. They just don't. If I was to argue the case... it was because they are lazy or because they don't want to think and understand clever movies. .)

    Not really buying the other argument either. Sure... "dumbing down" for the kiddies seems like a reasonable argument... and is what's being thrown around as a reason, sure. But... the main reason for dumbing down would be to cater to the reality tv simplicity of audiences... and that's the reason I'd use to explain why US audiences don't go to the movies. It just seems like there's an overabundance of those crappy reality tv shows in the US...
     
  29. wannab

    wannab Sr Member

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    Sounds like we are making each others point.



    Doug
     
  30. Kt Templar

    Kt Templar Well-Known Member

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    I think digital distribution could quite easily be one factor at play here.

    Traditionally one of the reasons that the rest of the world got films later than the US is because striking new copies cost money. A certain percentage would be shown first in the US then as they finished in the US the copes could be shipped out and used for the International release.

    Now with digital, that need is wiped away and films can be distributed to as many places as needed and the only limit are the marketing resources.

    We still sometimes get surprising delays in releases in Europe. 'Up' was released something like 6 months after the US. There is sometimes the feeling that 'summer' films in the US are 'winter' films in the UK and that reflects local viewing habits.

    As for the dumbing down aspect, I think films have just got dumbed down in general and I disagree that it is so that it would appeal to the Chinese market. I think it's just the studios catering to the lowest common denominator, probably the money men have become so entrenched that the bottom line has become king.
     
  31. jlee562

    jlee562 Sr Member

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    In spite of the fact that your first sentence argues against my post (sort of...again, it is not about any single market), the second part is exactly what I have argued.
     
  32. wannab

    wannab Sr Member

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  33. Java

    Java Sr Member

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    Yep, read that too and it makes a lot of sense. The crux of the article; by releasing movies (especially perceived stinkers) overseas they are somewhat immune from US critics bashing them, which in turn affects Box Office receipts positively.

    So, the strategy is to make more money. That's the real reason. "duh". :)
     
  34. Jathoris

    Jathoris Well-Known Member

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    Strange, I took the whole 'dumbing down' thing as those of us in the US get the shaft with tougher ratings Pg-13 vs. R as many films overseas get the higher rating and more un-touched film. I can see the argument on both sides though as well as outside of the US is actually the higher audience world wide as a whole, and it does make sense for certain movies to be released earlier in one place or another as more-or-less of a testing base to see if it's going to do well or not. For big anticipated releases.. Honestly, I totally think they should be released on the same day whatever side of the ponds you may be on. Sure there will be some time zone differences, but that's cool. Not a fan of the differences in weeks or months. That's utter crap wherever you may be as the party that has to do the waiting and advoiding from those who've seen it.
     
  35. barbatus

    barbatus Well-Known Member

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    "This is the new trend. If your movie is bad, play for it people who just need to see explosions and special effects."

    So, unlike the rest of the world the american audience is just too sophisticated for movies laden with explosions and special effects, which explains why movies like the Transformers series totally tanked there. What, they didn't ... and made up to $400 million a movie? Sorry, my bad: Transformers is of course true art and nothing like Battleship.

    "You know it’s cheesy and not very good, so why subject the studio to American reviews? Very wisely, Universal has been opening “Battleship” around the world in advance of its May 18th U.S. landing."

    Just like "The Avengers", which also must be total crap then...
     

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