Indiana Jones and The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Plot hole?

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Movie Talk' started by NBStudios, Dec 3, 2011.

  1. NBStudios

    NBStudios Active Member

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    I just noticed that in KOTCS Henry Jones is supposed to be dead. But in The last crusade he drank from the holy grail which gives eternal life.. Someone explain please?
     
  2. cayman shen

    cayman shen Master Member

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    Yeah, wasn't it that it gave him everlasting life only if he didn't cross the seal? That was the price of immortality, as the knight said.
     
  3. Jedifyfe

    Jedifyfe Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yep. Thread Done. :lol
     
  4. cayman shen

    cayman shen Master Member

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    I rule!
     
  5. Funky

    Funky Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    So...titanicfan...any more questions? :lol
     
  6. Whiskey

    Whiskey Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    What about the Raiders submarine problem? :cool

    Where's Sheldon???
     
  7. WarPig

    WarPig Sr Member

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    See, I always thought that *any* effects of the grail only worked behind the seal, which is why I never understood why Henry Sr. didn't fall over and die from his gunshot wound...
     
  8. MFP 2020

    MFP 2020 Sr Member

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    As related to the Flying Wing problem?

    "The Nazis have discovered TARDIS."
     
  9. Clutch

    Clutch Master Member

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    Should be in movie forum. :)
     
  10. Alan Castillo

    Alan Castillo Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Short thread :lol
     
  11. SVTStingRay

    SVTStingRay Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    IBTL *'s
     
  12. Egon Spengler

    Egon Spengler Sr Member

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    Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
     
  13. Bootlegger137

    Bootlegger137 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Immortality maybe, but what about this bit from the script of Last Crusade...(Indy talking with Walter Donovan)

    Based on that, I should think that Henry would have lived a much longer life.
     
  14. Larry Young

    Larry Young Master Member

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    Who's to say how he died? As we know from the movies, immortality doesn't save you when your head's cut off. There can be only one!
     
  15. Contec

    Contec Master Member

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    The grail grants Immortality yes, but that don't mean that it stops the aging of the body. Just check the knight that guards the grail. He is not a young man anymore. He even has a hard time lifting the sword.

    Plus at the time the two knights traveled to europe meant that you was considered real Old when you were 50 years or less, So having a guy appear just like 70 years mean't they thought he died of really OLD age (for that time)
     
  16. CB2001

    CB2001 Master Member

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    We don't know how Henry Snr. died. For all we know, he could have been ran over by a car or he may have gone on another "quest" somewhere and just never came back for reasons unknown (where he probably got killed in the process). Immortality may only be limited in its abilities after going past the seal is how I took it.
     
  17. NBStudios

    NBStudios Active Member

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    Guess I never thought of all of the possibility's haha
     
  18. cboath

    cboath Master Member

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    Enter the grail room at age 40, drink from the cup and hang out behind the seal for 1,000 years. Decide 1,000 years is enough, leave the grail room and cross the seal and the age process kicks back into gear.

    Keep in mind, old age at the time of the Knights searching for the grail was probably in your 40's to begin with.
     
  19. Goonie

    Goonie Sr Member

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    They way that I always understood it is that the grail shouldn't have crossed the seal - If you wanted immortality, you'd have to drink from the grail somewhere in the inards of the temple, not past the seal. Sure Connery crossed the seal, but the grail did too, hence forfeiting immortality. If the grail stayed behind, then I guess he was immortal... :confused
     
  20. Kerr Avon

    Kerr Avon Master Member

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    Bring in a high speed internet connection, cable TV, and a pizza place that delivers and I'd be set.
     
  21. Ford W Maverick

    Ford W Maverick Well-Known Member

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    The way I always understood it the Grail couldn't leave the building, but drinking from the Grail just once didn't grant you immortality. Drinking from the Grail once healed you, continuing to drink from it over time kept healing you rendering you, in effect, immortal. But since the Grail couldn't cross the seal you had to stay with the Grail.
     
  22. ronski

    ronski New Member

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    I always assumed that you would be immortal as long as you didn't cross the seal. (The other knights died sometime after they left the temple due to old age, if I'm not mistaken) But I think I like this theory better!
     
  23. Ford W Maverick

    Ford W Maverick Well-Known Member

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    I mean, I could be wrong, but that's the way I understood it from having watched the movie about a million times. :D
     
  24. CTF

    CTF Sr Member

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    We need a bigger plot hole to bury that * in.
     
  25. Zykotec

    Zykotec Active Member

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    I have always wondered what that lone knight has been up to all these years. I mean, did he just sit there? Day after day, year after year, waiting for someone to come by? Seriously, hundreds of years, all alone !!! ...
     
  26. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    He was reading, praying, drinking from the cup... but... what did he eat?
     
  27. thegreatgalling

    thegreatgalling Sr Member

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    I am with the camp that says the grail AND the person cannot cross the seal.

    My interpretation is that immortality was intended for the grail's protectors, not everyone. Drinking it provides healing powers, but not immortality.

    The Knights brought the grail to where God intended it to stay, and we're given that power as long as it stayed.
     
  28. thegreatgalling

    thegreatgalling Sr Member

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    :thumbsup



    EDIT: haha. Above was a glitch from my Iphone that double posted for some reason. I guess Siri agreed with me. I left it because that was too funny.
     
  29. Treadwell

    Treadwell Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    This...

    ...and this.

    He didn't need to. Drinking from the Grail sustained him. (And his faith, I guess, as that is probably a prerequisite for the Grail to work.)
     
  30. Lightning

    Lightning Well-Known Member

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    It's made very clear at the beginning. The 2 brothers walk out of the desert hundreds of years later but only one of them made it and "before dying of extreme old age" told the story to the franciscan friar. There is still aging while drinking but it keeps you healthy. I'm sure the Knight in the Temple was much younger looking the first time he drank from the grail.
     
  31. Treadwell

    Treadwell Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yes, I agree, or maybe slows aging waaay down but doesn't stop it (he was what, a thousand years old at that point?). Or he wasn't drinking it often enough. Tired of having to pee.
     
  32. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    Maybe that was what was in the pool... old pee.
     
  33. The Rock-a-who

    The Rock-a-who Well-Known Member

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    So, MY arguement about this film...why did the grail work before they wound up there and constructed that temple? Why there? Did they suddenly decide the grail was too powerful and retcon'd it? :lol
     
  34. Laspector

    Laspector Sr Member

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    It's warrenty was about to run out.
     
  35. Treadwell

    Treadwell Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Joseph of Arimathea: "I treasure this vessel since it was used by our Lord, but I wonder what it might be capable of if I drink water from it taken from a spring in a cave in a crescent-shaped canyon due east from an oasis near a mountain near a city?"
     
  36. Jeyl

    Jeyl Master Member

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    Immortality didn't work past the seal? Well, that makes stopping the germans entirely pointless.
     
  37. thegreatgalling

    thegreatgalling Sr Member

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    In the classic tales, Sir Arthur's Kight, Galahad, (sometimes Lancelot, and sometimes all the Knights of the Round Table) see an ethereal vision of the Grail. This usually provides its location. Typically, three of the Knights go on the quest, which this tale was strongly based on. Here, however, one of the Knights was named Sir Richard, and the other two were his brothers, separating it from Aurthur Grail lore.

    I always assumed these brothers would be guided by visions. Namely where the Grail is, and where it should rest.

    I do wish that the Knight was Sir. Galahad of the original legend, as that would have been really cool. For whatever reason, Spielberg changed the names of the Knights. If they were Round Table Knights, Merlin also has visions which help them find the Grail.
     
  38. Megamicrofish

    Megamicrofish Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yes, What did he eat ?
    Also, Did he have an endless supply of fuel for the lamps ?
     
  39. Treadwell

    Treadwell Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    :eek Good point!
     
  40. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    Past the seal and the temple falls down around you... no mention that it wouldn't actually stop working outside the seal. + at that time in the story, it was more a spiritual quest for Indy rather than a physical object and whether he'd be able to let go of his quest.

    Though, IF it stopped working past the seal, it wasn't until talking with the knight that Indy actually learned that... up until then it was like the quest for the Ark, thinking it was functional if you took possession of it... and at the time he actually hear about not taking it past the seal it was no longer to beat the Germans as much as saving his father.

    But... none of the people actually drinking from it never really gained immortality... they just lived longer than normal people and were healed from ailments. So, the immortality label on the thing seems like an exaggeration or a wives tale added on top.
     
  41. Treadwell

    Treadwell Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Well, of course they didn't know it was pointless, but it turned out it was.
     
  42. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    Yeah, talk about being let down by reality compared to the fantasy of the grail and what it could do.
     
  43. clancampbell

    clancampbell Sr Member

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    Wasn't he eaten by a giant squid while looking for Atlantis?

    Rich
     
  44. CB2001

    CB2001 Master Member

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    I don't know. I'm not familiar with all the IJ adventures except for the films and a couple of the junior novels I read back when I was in middle school (one of them having Indy on the Titanic when he was a little kid).
     
  45. Ford W Maverick

    Ford W Maverick Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the power of the Grail is tied to the seal, it's just that the Grail crossing the seal triggers the building to collapse and if you're in there with the building collapsing and you don't get out in time, yer kinda screwed. Tons of stone falling on your head is probably deadly even if you're carrying the Grail. Unless it was full of water, but I'd imagine it's not easy to run flat out through a collapsing temple without spilling all the water.

    Anyway, I figure if you DID get the Grail out of the temple it would probably work. Thing is though, you would have had to have known how to get in there to get the thing and then successfully escape with it. Who knows? The Grail diary might have explained how to remove the Grail without the building collapsing, but they didn't have time to look it up.

    In essence, getting out of the temple is another test, like the ones to get in.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
  46. JRHermle

    JRHermle New Member

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    In the novelization, it's explained that you have to drink from the Grail every day to remain immortal. The knight guarding the grail had aged because sometimes his "spirit faltered" and he didn't drink from the grail. He aged a year for each day he did not drink. Which is how the brothers would have died from extreme old age when the arrived back in civilization.

    But since it's not said in the movie...
     
  47. TheDoctor

    TheDoctor Sr Member

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    Points:

    1) Who's to say Henry Jones is ACTUALLY dead? Immortality would, logically, necessitate an occasionally death fakery so that no one notices - even to the point of fooling your own son.

    2) The grail, and drinking from the grail, etc. is all symbolism of the Christian faith - everlasting life is everlasting spiritual life. Drinking from the false cup represents a shallow or false faith and leads to eternal death. Drinking from the true cup represents an understanding of who Jesus was. The water and drinking from the grail represent the spring of life Jesus talked with the Samaritan woman about.

    Having said that, Indy (and Henry) had to show a certain amount of faith (I always thought that, even had Donovan actually drank from the correct cup, his lack of true faith would have taken it from him anyway.

    3) Regarding the Submarine: U boats were never meant to operate under water for long periods of time. Some could, but they weren't submarines in the sense of the modern navy, they were more like surface boats that COULD go underwater (especially as a means of escape or attack).
     
  48. CB2001

    CB2001 Master Member

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    I know this thread was put to rest, but I was wanted to let you know I just rewatched it on SyFy and that's is what the Knight said. In fact, it's quoted on the IMDb:

    "You have chosen... wisely. But, beware: the Grail cannot pass beyond the Great Seal, for that is the boundry, and the price, of immortality. "

    So, the moment that the Grail went past the seal, the temple fell apart. The moment that Indy and Henry Snr. went past it, they were no longer immortal (remember: Indy drank from the Grail. Any assumption that Henry Snr. would be immotral would also have to apply to Indy by the fact that he drank from it). As a result, it leading to Henry Snr. eventually growing old and dying, and Indiana eventually grew old himself.

    So, not really a plot hole, just a misinterpretation of events from Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade.
     
  49. d_jedi1

    d_jedi1 Sr Member

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    ^^ you beat me to it. I've always accepted that explanation. :thumbsup
     
  50. sleepalot

    sleepalot Active Member

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    Maybe he learned how to eat dirt
     

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