If you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Movie Talk' started by glunark, Jul 5, 2015.

  1. glunark

    glunark Sr Member

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    But did he, really?

    Was Obi Wan more powerful dead than alive?

    Because it seems like he did little more than be a sat nav for Luke now and again.

    Run Luke, use the force, you must go to Dagoba, handy instructions to be sure, but when you consider some of the things he accomplished when he was alive, I really don't think his boast to Vader really played out.
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  2. dascoyne

    dascoyne Master Member

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    Obi was getting his * whooped so he wanted to save face by acting the tough Jedi.
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  3. SmilingOtter

    SmilingOtter Master Member

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    I'd like to think that Kenobi dropped in on Vader from time to time, making his life absolute hell - especially if no one else could see him.
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  4. Bigdaddy

    Bigdaddy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    He was full of crap, but it's an awesome line and I use it in judo class to an annoying degree. ;)
  5. Probe Droid

    Probe Droid Master Member

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    It's a symbolic statement.
  6. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Depends on what your certain point of view is...
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  7. batguy

    batguy Sr Member

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    " . . . and if you don't strike me down, then I will strike you down, again. My new Padawan will lack motivation for the coming assault on this place. I will spend the entire assault standing around the rebel base like a dork. So pretty please, with sugar on top - strike me down right now."
  8. Vivek

    Vivek Master Member Community Staff RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Use the Force, Luke.
    Let go, Luke.
    Luke, trust me.

    Those words are not mere handy instructions, those are powerful words that became life changing for Luke. (And it was a goosebumps inducing moment for the audience). And it resonated with him mainly cause it was the spirit of Obi-Wan uttering those words of wisdom. If Obi-Wan said those lines while being alive and Luke heard them through his ear piece, it just may not have made the same impact, leading him to switch off his targeting computer at that point of crisis. One can argue Luke would have still made through the tremendous tricky procedure of shooting the torpedoes into the Death Star, but I would still say it was the presence of the Force and that moment of boosted confidence that allowed him to pull it off.

    Maybe Obi-Wan wasn't powerful directly but his death allowed his spirit to influence Luke in ways Vader couldn't imagine. So yes, he did really become more powerful after his death.

    It's similar to how some words and actions from someone after their death will echo and is able to influence people more, but it wouldn't be the case when they were alive. Sometimes it's someone close to you and sometimes it's even people who you didn't know on a personal level.

    "Remember, the Force will be with you, always."
  9. CessnaDriver

    CessnaDriver Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    What he said!
    Luke wasn't going to pop that death star without that spiritual help. Something Obi-Wan could not do while living.
    In a way one could say Obi-Wan destroyed the death star.
  10. Treadwell

    Treadwell Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Note that Vader didn't notice "the Force is strong with this one" until after Obi-Wan started speaking to him.
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  11. Wes R

    Wes R Legendary Member

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    That's true because he reached a form of immortality that the dark side hadn't yet discovered.
  12. Monkey67

    Monkey67 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I'll take Old Ben..X wing gets the square!

    Obi died so Han can kinda look cool. He didn't want everyone thinking he was just a cocky pilot who has a fuzzy smelly dog. Also Han needed cool points since he left his old lady at the bar to hit on a princess. Plus he Didn't want to take the glory away from Luke blowing up the Death Star. He even allowed a step dad and son reunite. Thus have a quality father son moment. Obi wan is really Lukes & leia father. Padme couldn't help herself and it was Obi duty to please that booty. He just used Jedi mind trick on anakin to make him think they were his. That's just how Obi rolls...he is a righteous dude.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015
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  13. James Kenobi 1138

    James Kenobi 1138 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Obi-Wan didn't die. He became one with the Force and his physical body dissolved into the Force.

    I think the power to go anywhere in the galaxy and talk to anyone, even taking a visible form is much more powerful than having an old, human body.
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  14. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    ....and "in the force you will see old friends long gone." :thumbsup

  15. AJTaliesen

    AJTaliesen Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Oddly, Albus Dumbledore of all people explains this better than I will, in the last HP book, but...

    If you notice, right before he makes that choice, Obi notices Luke watching. He's not just dying, He's being killed by Vader in front of Luke.

    See, eventually Luke is going to find out that Vader didn't kill his father, Obi lied, and that he IS his father. At that point, the idea of deposing the Emperor and ruling the galaxy as father and son is going to be awfully tempting for an ambitious kid from the sticks. MUCH more attractive bait than the Emperor had with Anakin, and Obi wan couldn't stop that either.

    But the tempting lure of power has a much harder time overcoming the memory of watching him murder his friend right in front of him. Father or not, he'll always be someone Luke doesn't want to become.

    Obi tries to protect Luke, but he knows he's already lost that struggle with a padawan once before and that was WITHOUT the lure of a reunion with a famous and powerful father. His death is what gives Luke the ability to resist the lure that Anakin fell into.
  16. CessnaDriver

    CessnaDriver Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Sometimes it's fun to just think about the first film stand alone, none of the father/sister stuff.
    Which is what we had to do of course for three years.
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  17. halliwax

    halliwax Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    thats what i always thought. may not be physically stronger then vader, but being able to be everywhere and anywhere when ever you want is pretty powerful
  18. Bryancd

    Bryancd Master Member

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    Without his sacrifice, Luke would never become the Jedi he would become and redeem Anakin, all of which was directly influenced by Ben.
  19. cboath

    cboath Master Member

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    When i first saw this thread title and the OP I had thought the same thing. Perhaps it was just serendipitous, but, it wasn't technically possible for this to be a shooting intent, really, because vader wasn't dad at the time.

    I tend to think of it as very similar though. He'd become more powerful, because he would be able to guide luke no matter what - and who are you going to believe? The big powerful bad guy whom you know is bad seeing as he willfully killed a guy who essentially surrendered in front of him? Or a guy who basically came back from the dead just to see you?

    Also, i'm not sure he has the ability to appear 'anywhere'. The only ghosts that have shown to my knowlege have appear to just Luke. The 3 ghosts who have appeared to Luke all died right in front of him. Perhaps you need to attach yourself to someone? I don't know. But it sure seems to be a possibility.
  20. Michael Bergeron

    Michael Bergeron Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    His death allowed Luke the opportunity to rise and not be in the shadow/follow Obi Wan. So while Obi himself didn't become stronger it allowed Luke to.

    So it's true, from a certain point of view. ;)
  21. niennumb1

    niennumb1 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Man... I love it. Almost getting near 40 years since that film came out and we still have so much to discuss about it.

    And that wasn't sarcasm, I genuinely love that we still discuss this stuff.
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  22. JLeezy23

    JLeezy23 Sr Member

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    "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."
    Obi became one with the force. Vader used the force, but Obi now WAS the force. He tells Luke to use the force, basically using Obi, since he is now a part of it. The force overpowers the Death Star, just as Vader says. Obi became more powerful because he turned into the energy Vader relies upon, Luke & Obi used that to destroy the Death Star
  23. astroboy

    astroboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I imagine that Force Ghost Kenobi had a ton of fun scaring Vader every morning while he was trying to take a shower.

  24. Inquisitor Peregrinus

    Inquisitor Peregrinus Master Member

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    There was a further evolution of Obi-Wan that got truncated at the last minute. Notice he went from disembodied voice to hazy and distant image to clear and close image to walking around and sitting on a log next to Luke. Through several versions of the final trilogy's notes and (later, when the last four films had been condensed into one) ROTJ script drafts, during the final confrontation, Obi-Wan stepped back into the physical world to help Luke fight Vader and the Emperor.

    Lucas, at the time, ultimately felt that was taking too much away from Luke -- that the final victory needed to be his, both internal and external, and the Obi-Wan bit was written out. But who knows, maybe a re-youthened Obi-Wan was able to pop out to hang with Luke in the new years following that battle. It'd be a fun way to get Ewan in the new films. *chuckle*

    But in the moment, I agree it was part becoming one with the Force and part giving Luke focus for the upcoming battle.

  25. NeoRutty

    NeoRutty Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    There's also the longer version from the deleted scenes...

    "If my blade finds its mark, you will cease to exist, but if you strike me down I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."

    Though it didn't get used, it does point that the intent of his words were that he was becoming one with the force - something sith could not with the dark side.
  26. darth_myeek

    darth_myeek Sr Member

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    Almost all of my respect for Kenobi was lost the moment he said from a certain point of view.

    From a certain point of view Uncle Owen was right about Ben.
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  27. azheat01

    azheat01 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Laughed out loud to that one, gonna use it myself!

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