How was Vader's helmet modified from ANH to ESB to ROTJ

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Kroenen77

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
OOO the helmet lying on the ground from dagoba very nice Is that worms I see below the cheek

Yes...the ESB hero had also worms.This worms are an intersting detail because you cannot see them on the ANH screenused helmet.But on the VP and the ESB helmets its there.Was it a detail in the first mold of ANH and they removed it for the helmet?

Here you can see the worms on the ESB hero mask:

38611580ci.jpg
 

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juajn7fernandez

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Yes...the ESB hero had also worms.This worms are an intersting detail because you cannot see them on the ANH screenused helmet.But on the VP and the ESB helmets its there.Was it a detail in the first mold of ANH and they removed it for the helmet?

Here you can see the worms on the ESB hero mask:


The "worms" are not there in ANH because they are a casting flaw only found on the UK mold. they weren't part of the ANH helmet and are not there in the US mold.
 

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craigjohn

Well-Known Member
Yes! My ovd is off the charts now after learning about the extra detail on the SL. A part of me wants to sell the face and get a new One! Lol!

Not sure why. There isn’t a better Vader available than the one you have, even though it’s recast. Just admire it for what it is. And it still has lineage - just one extra step. Pair it with Mike Warren’s DJ dome, and that’s a pretty good set-up. Far better than most.
 

Too Much Garlic

Master Member
I think if it was not found on the ANH screen used that it must have originated after the mold was made of the ANH screen used Mask
I can not say if it was an actual artifact perhaps in the Mold for the ESB production

But that is actually very interesting if a cast pulled directly from the UK mold does not have the worms like the original screen used ANH

then the worms must be present in another Mold and then it would say that all face masks with direct lineage and has the worms came perhaps from a mold of a UK cast face mask when the worms became present

Or it could simply just be a paint artifact or a mold artifact that originated somehow or another
Acams razor say's it's the simplest answer
You are complicating things. The UK mold created this defect when it molded the original ANH. It was not on the ANH, still isn't, and is not in the US mold. All UK mold castings that hasn't been cleaned up or had the detail deliberately removed has this detail.
 

Darth Africanus

Well-Known Member
You are complicating things. The UK mold created this defect when it molded the original ANH. It was not on the ANH, still isn't, and is not in the US mold. All UK mold castings that hasn't been cleaned up or had the detail deliberately removed has this detail.
Apologies Carsten I did not mean to complicate things
I was merely making an educated guess on my part as I was not aware of the simplified factual answer you and Juan have provided
I deleted my post to avoid confusion .
Thank you very much for providing the correct answer ! :D
 

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dano

Well-Known Member
It verifies something I've wondered. Does it look like there's a material build-up underneath the paint? Or that the painting is thick enough to hide built up material under the paint? A specific cheek being the point of focus. ;)

There's one thing that's been bugging me for years and this seems like the perfect thread to explore. Everyone keeps bringing up the ROTJ helmet as super polished and shiny, but in reality it's only really high gloss and smooth in two scenes, when Vader arrives and when the Emperor arrives. In any subsequent scenes the helmet looks even less polished than ESB to me and it's particularly dull when he meets Luke on Endor. I've heard some speculating that it may be because those sets were smaller and it was dulled down to avoid reflections, I really wonder if there was a conscious thing, sometimes it even looks like it's just full of dust and fingerprints.



I will apolgise if this has been shared before on here and is old news, but a forum member here-Jez Firth AKA Gonk droid- spoke to the original painter of the ANH helmet. He said they used a Rolls Royce black. He couldn't remember the exact code but the go to RR black at the time was Mason's black. A friend got some mixed up but was warned by the paint shop that it was a very awkward and slow drying paint, we tried it anyway ( at this point we were under the mistaken belief the ANH helmet had been brush painted, it was only in a conversation a while afterwards Jez confirmed that the painter had actually mentioned spraying it! ), the really interesting thing was that it did indeed take a very long time to paint, but it starts off a very high gloss and as it drys it tends to turn more of a satin/ matt finish. It also retains a degree of tackiness which means any dust will easily settle onto the surface and if you handle it it's a right bitch for fingerprints.

What was interesting to see was when painting a second coating over it the paint under the surface hadn't properly dried and what you end up with is gunked paint dragging underneath the brush strokes, some the build up looked almost identical to the roughness on the faceplate- including that much debated scar!

The closest match I have found off the shelf isn't a finishing paint as such, it was a can of Halford's guide spray!

The other thing that stood out about Masons black was the original paint code- 501!
 

Darth Africanus

Well-Known Member
I Thought I would put up these videos I had downloaded if anybody hasn't seen it

I know a lot of guys have seen it but to gather in the spirit of gathering as much info on Vader's helmet in one central place
I think these videos have a great contribution to add

 

cking

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Fantastic info that I hadn't read before. Was any info given about the gun metal grey? Is it Rolls Royce Tudor Grey which I have seen mentioned before?


I will apolgise if this has been shared before on here and is old news, but a forum member here-Jez Firth AKA Gonk droid- spoke to the original painter of the ANH helmet. He said they used a Rolls Royce black. He couldn't remember the exact code but the go to RR black at the time was Mason's black. A friend got some mixed up but was warned by the paint shop that it was a very awkward and slow drying paint, we tried it anyway ( at this point we were under the mistaken belief the ANH helmet had been brush painted, it was only in a conversation a while afterwards Jez confirmed that the painter had actually mentioned spraying it! ), the really interesting thing was that it did indeed take a very long time to paint, but it starts off a very high gloss and as it drys it tends to turn more of a satin/ matt finish. It also retains a degree of tackiness which means any dust will easily settle onto the surface and if you handle it it's a right bitch for fingerprints.

What was interesting to see was when painting a second coating over it the paint under the surface hadn't properly dried and what you end up with is gunked paint dragging underneath the brush strokes, some the build up looked almost identical to the roughness on the faceplate- including that much debated scar!

The closest match I have found off the shelf isn't a finishing paint as such, it was a can of Halford's guide spray!

The other thing that stood out about Masons black was the original paint code- 501!
 

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dcarty

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I will apolgise if this has been shared before on here and is old news, but a forum member here-Jez Firth AKA Gonk droid- spoke to the original painter of the ANH helmet. He said they used a Rolls Royce black. He couldn't remember the exact code but the go to RR black at the time was Mason's black.

Interesting observations about the behavior of the paint!

Is this Ron Punter that Jez spoke to? I remember SSkunky telling about the time he went to an event at Elstree with Jez/Gonk27 where they met him. Mr Punter painted the helmets in Empire and has cited using Rolls Royce paint (he's on Facebook now and does the convention circuit). He also appeared on Antiques Road Show a few years ago with a Vader helmet he kept along with a prop axe from The Shining that he made.

It makes sense that they would have used the same paint from Star Wars to Empire though we don't have concrete information that that's what they did (it's what I try to do at any rate).

We've been wrestling with the gunmetal color for years. So far, no one -- unfortunately including Mr Punter -- seems to know what they used. I'm hoping that the information is in a production memo somewhere waiting to be discovered.
 

dano

Well-Known Member
Interesting observations about the behavior of the paint!

Is this Ron Punter that Jez spoke to? I remember SSkunky telling about the time he went to an event at Elstree with Jez/Gonk27 where they met him. Mr Punter painted the helmets in Empire and has cited using Rolls Royce paint (he's on Facebook now and does the convention circuit). He also appeared on Antiques Road Show a few years ago with a Vader helmet he kept along with a prop axe from The Shining that he made.

It makes sense that they would have used the same paint from Star Wars to Empire though we don't have concrete information that that's what they did (it's what I try to do at any rate).

We've been wrestling with the gunmetal color for years. So far, no one -- unfortunately including Mr Punter -- seems to know what they used. I'm hoping that the information is in a production memo somewhere waiting to be discovered.


Jez only said Ron in our conversation- I'd say it would be a hell of a stretch to think there was another Ron who also did the painting so I'd say it is the same guy. I was hoping jez may have popped up on here, I told him about it so we'll see!
 

Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I’ve been reading along and following. But still confused with the term “worms”

“Worm” is the groove where the flat edge meets the step below the eye?

Adjustments.jpg
 

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