Help Deciphering decals for Vaders Tie Advance Correct ones

Discussion in 'Studio Scale Models' started by propcollector, Mar 26, 2015.

  1. propcollector

    propcollector Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Ok guys lets see how good you can see!! Here is a pic turned upside down to read these in white! Want to make up the correct decals for Tie Advance.

    I can see the CAPY,LDLMT, need to figure out the numbers Dont know for sure if the last one is LTWT
    decalsforvaderstie.jpg
     
  2. swgeek

    swgeek Sr Member

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    Looks like the red one is the start of DANGER. Probably from a fighter jet. The other one, no idea.
     
  3. swhite228

    swhite228 Well-Known Member

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    The other seems to be the markings you would find on a shipping container or railroad tank car.
     
  4. propcollector

    propcollector Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    i believe you are spot on with that! Now to know what the correct numbers are!!


    Thanks swhite228
     
  5. Clerval

    Clerval Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Capacity, load limit, light (unloaded) weight, all freight specs. The numbers are interesting, esp the last...
     
  6. Lee S

    Lee S Sr Member

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  7. moffeaton

    moffeaton Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Nice find, Lee! Time to revise my sheet before I reprint them!
    I got "close" from the pic and sizing against the Neisen tie:

    Screen Shot 2015-03-27 at 8.11.26 AM.png
     
  8. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    As we found with the MF decals survey, ILM'ers really liked using Microscale railroad aftermarket decal sheets. Given the verbiage expect it came from one of the freightcar, hopper car or tanker car data sheets. Of course, finding exemplars won't guarantee you'll be able to read the numbers as the printing was very small. One other possibility is one of the AMT tractor trailer kits, which often included weight data... but usually on some kind of colored background. There were 'O' gauge MS RR sheets that might be the correct size beyond the HO sheets, of which there were a lot!

    Trains Magazine has a nice little explanation of these markings (which pretty much IDs them as being from a RR sheet...) at their site; check it out HERE:
    http://trn.trains.com/railroads/abcs-of-railroading/2006/05/freight-car-markings

    A bit more reading of the Trains article appears to point out that the second number (LD LMT) is missing it's last digit as it usually exceeded the CAPY (capacity) limit by a bit (so CAPY being 97000, the LD LMT must be '98200' not '9820'...)
    Further, it is interesting that this labeling indicates the empty weight of the car is *greater* than the capacity! (113800) That is one heavy car!

    Hope this helps! R/ Robert
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
  9. MonsieurTox

    MonsieurTox Master Member

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    Just FYI I just received the microscale 87-2 decal sheet today and I can confirm it is wrong in both size (this is HO and this is way too big) and data (numbers).
    I am not even sure microscale was around at this time and I found some other manufacturers that were at this time but to be honest I think it was from a kit and not from after market decals.
     
  10. Zac

    Zac New Member

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    Some info on Microscale:
    Microscale Industries Inc. is located in Costa Mesa, California, and was founded in 1933 by Martin G. Krasel. Microscale is known for producing quality decals that are easy to apply and result in realistic models. Scales HO, N, O, Z
    Feature Products: Decals and decal finishing products
    Specific Eras Steam-to-Diesel transition (1940-1960), Classic Diesel (1960-1980), Modern (1980-Present)
    Price Range: $2.00-$20
    Delivery Information: Because Microscale is a batch producer, some items may not be immediately available.
     
  11. MonsieurTox

    MonsieurTox Master Member

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    Thanks for the infos, however the HO decals are wrong. :(
     
  12. Zac

    Zac New Member

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    Most likely N scale. I've been looking through numbers from the Santa Fe cars but have found nothing yet. Will keep looking though.
     
  13. MonsieurTox

    MonsieurTox Master Member

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    Yeah N scale sounds close.
    Im wondering if the TIE markings on the cockpit of some Y-Wings (Red Jammer and Gold Leader) are not trains markings, one of them looks very very close !
     
  14. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    Nicely, the 'weight data' and the DAN segment of the 1/24 Gemini kit are right next to each other, so relatively straight-forward to size. As for the exact source, capacity data 'stenciling' was provided on most (if not all) of the Microscale sheets for various rolling stock sheets, so finding the original sheet may be nearly impossible. Since this isn't necessary for this modeling purpose (after all, custom making these puppies, right?) it probably is just good enough to know the general source. In fact, many earlier MS sheets from the '70's- '80's are no longer available, even the numbers could have been 'retreaded' by MS. So, no worries! Oh, MT, Microscale was definitely around during this time frame as we've found from the Mill Falcon project (a very cool discovery, IMO.) It shows the ILM modelers basically ran down to the LHS and raided their inventory... perhaps not for *everything* but certainly for some things... Does anyone know if the majority of the filming models were built over in the UK or made some where else? Sorry, a little OT, just curious what kind of LHS they might have visited (such as Rosemont Hobbies...) for these kits & decals.

    R/ Robert
     
  15. MonsieurTox

    MonsieurTox Master Member

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    The 1/24 Gemini decals are not correct (wrong font).

    I don't agree with you regarding finding the correct decals, maybe it is not important in the general section but it is here, in the studio scale section, it is as important than getting the right parts.

    Yeah it may be from MS decal sheet, or it may not, we need to find solid proof. Since those markings are standard on real life stuff, it is likely something that can be found in any train kit from this era.

    All the ANH models were built in the US.
     
  16. propcollector

    propcollector Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Here is a N scale freaight car with the LT WT number larger then the other two numbers, so shows that these were out there like on the tie fighter

    CAPY (nominal capacity) is the intended load-carrying capacity of the car, to the nearest 1000 pounds. This is determined by the structural strength of the car's underframe and the size of the journal bearings of the car's trucks.

    LD LMT (load limit) is the maximum weight of lading that can be carried by the car, to the nearest 100 pounds. This is determined by subtracting the weight of the car when empty from the total allowable gross weight given the size of the car's journal bearings. The load limit for a car is usually a bit greater than its capacity; the two figures can be equal, but capacity can never exceed load limit.

    LT WT (light, or empty, weight) is the weight of the car when empty.

    i don't believe that the N scale is the right size because the decals are way to small, here is a size comparison



    image.jpg

    image.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2018
  17. Tsophika

    Tsophika Well-Known Member

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    That has to be the tiniest 1138 reference.

    Craig
     
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  18. propcollector

    propcollector Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Where, may I ask, did those come from tsophika? Those are spot on to be right and the numbers match

    ok THX 1138 more info on this





    thank you Craig for posting that

    any one know what stencil font used for the freight cars?
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2015
  19. propcollector

    propcollector Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Also the YFAR is on the opposite Side of the hatch of vaders tie.
     
  20. Tsophika

    Tsophika Well-Known Member

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    Send me your email, Mark.

    Craig
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2015
  21. MonsieurTox

    MonsieurTox Master Member

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    N scale seems good to me, the HO decals are about 2x too big.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Are those pics of the original decal sheets ? The Danger looks spot on too !
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2018
  22. propcollector

    propcollector Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Pm sent craig
     
  23. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    Still don't see where anyone has stated or determined the actual physical size of the decals on the TIE model... so how can anyone determine what scale MS sheet these stencils came from?
    R/ R

    - - - Updated - - -

     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
  24. MonsieurTox

    MonsieurTox Master Member

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    I have the SS TIE, I have the HO MS decals sheet, the decals don't fit the SS TIE because they are twice the size they should be, easy !
     
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  25. MonsieurTox

    MonsieurTox Master Member

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    Thank you. :) "That attitude" is trying to be as close as possible, so I guess I'm not out of topic in this forum. :)

    In this thread, Mark was trying to find the correct decals used on the X-1, not decals that are close. I have seen some discussions you had with other members regarding Studio Scale and accuracy and I respect your choice to use decals that are close, or resin or 3D printed parts when styrene parts were used ont he original models. However keep in mind that's not the case of most guys in this forum section. ;)
     
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  26. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    MT, I apologize for I must have taken your comment about "General modeling" wrongly and consequently taken slight offense. To me, this is *all* modeling & art (but not science), but I tend to be inclusive with my definitions - and assign equal standing to all efforts in this arena. As such, the idea that there is a 'general' modeling attitude that is somehow less correct rankled in light of my personal paradigm. But again, as is said, "that is just me" and so I do not speak for others.

    My on-topic point is specifically that it may be impossible to identify the original source(s) used, in which case an identical but non-original source (such as 'Microscale sheet xyz' vice 'abc' - or even 'reproduction' graphics) would certainly be the way to proceed & also completely correct. As such, at least in my mind, there is no requirement to only use original parts, decals, etc. - only to be rigorous so (again, in my opinion) the result looks the same. It is impractical to be any more "exact" this since certain things are simply no longer made or to be found (or just out of reach from a financial standpoint.)

    Again apologies as perhaps I also failed in being clear re: Mark's question; I never meant to imply that "close" would be the goal, merely that exactly the original decal sheet might be unavailable and as such a *matching* exact alternative should be fine - again, for practical purposes. The real benefit of identifying the original decal source is so to have a crystal-clear determination of how the original application looked so then the replica's application can be matched exactly.

    I wonder if this little bit of discord is more about language than meaning, as you seem to stand in the same field of thought as I based on your post on the MF decals survey thread: here
    I believe everyone involved certainly understands the reality (depressing as it may be) concerning availability of the original sources. However, I think consideration should also be given to the "spirit" of the original modeling projects without being overly pedantic; after all, these models were 'slammed & jammed' together for other than aesthetic purposes with many shortcuts being taken. The beauty is in what they achieved *in spite* of the limitations imposed on their work... in short, don't forget the joy of the forest for staring at one tree's bark! ;^)

    Regards, Robert
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
  27. propcollector

    propcollector Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Remember there are different sizes even in the Ho ect. so can somebody show the decals next to the hatch?
     

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