Halliwax's weird V3 theory


Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I don't think there is any real way to prove it without clearer images or first-hand accounts the former is either private information, or doesn't exist, and the latter would be impossible as the people who were around then handling the stuff likely didn't give two cents about details; it was just there to use. What we do have circumstantially implies that it most certainly would've been---these things have been hot swapped and interchanged since ANH. The Ben medium-wide BTS with him holding up a hilt to his face is certainly the V3 based on the details we can match, and there isn't anything in the way of definite or clearer after that, that I have seen publicly on the forums, until RotJ and post-RotJ (and that's only stuff that's come out recently).



Considering the sequence of events that seemed to have happen, what with the Graflex being swapped out last minute for a different hilt at the Sandstorm sequence, this is most likely the case. The crew grabbed whatever they had--the V2-- and used that because it already had a corresponding double--the V3--to use for gags and stuff. Again, it's circumstantial, but the V3 most likely would've been used for fencing and stunts just based on the fact that there aren't many multiples either surviving from ANH, or carried through from ANH. The production for the later films used as much as possible from the first film that was saved, and this ranges from props and costume pieces. Multiple resin casts of the Obi hilt don't come into conversation until RotJ, based on what there is, and were made for anything that may have not needed dueling with but some stunt anyway: Luke tossing it away, the air cannon stuff in the States, etc.

The resin casts support, at this time, the V3 didn't have the emitter it has now, you're also right about that; the reasons for sure as to why it needed replacing we may never know---but something did happen to it that warranted replacing sometime after the shooting wrapped, it seems.

Personally, I think the windvane screw was there on the V3 from the beginning. It doubles to keep the emitter on the hilt in the present day, but I think back then it functioned much like the retention screws on the Yuma at the time: it secured the blade in the hilt. It may not be seen in this photo, or any other photo around this time for that matter (which is the damnedest luck), but I think it was there, it just seems too practical to not have. To have the emitter like it is in this photo, too, implies to me that the V3 at this time was static much like Yuma, too.
LOM has proven that not to be the v3 due to the pommel d ring and no hole for the wire

Pretty positive that is the warehouse stunt, or a un accounted stunt
 

Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
As always, I'm not just looking for disagreement, Tom. Just trying to get the sequence of events sorted out in my head... :)

But do we know for sure that the V3 was used for duelling prior to the moulds being made? As I understand it, the V2 was used for duelling practice during ESB. Is there any evidence that the V3 was too?

We know the V2 was repurposed on day one of shooting ROTJ. Maybe once they realised they needed the resin stunts as well, they grabbed the V3 for making the moulds (Before it had ever seen any real action)?

Looking at the cast, it appears to me that the moulds were made prior to the neck having been broken too? The windvane set screw seems to me to be in response to the break, and wouldn't have been necessary until they began using the V3 as a duelling stunt.

Do we actually know when that was? What if (Big IF) the V3 was never needed/used for duelling until after the V2 had been taken out of service (for use as the belt hanger)??

The windvane/emitter screws seem to be absent still at this stage of production:

View attachment 1510641

To me it sure does look like the emitter is still attached

I believe there is 2 Kenobi stunts being used in the throne room. 2 bladed stunts should I say, Hamill throws a resin stunt at the emperor

There is a lot of photos during the duel, when the cameras aren’t rolling Hamill is using the pipe stunt, even the stunt man when he jumps and flips is using it

But when they are filming they swap in a Kenobi stunt

What I question is, the paint changes, and there is gaffers “progression” threw out the duel

Very early on, on screen you can see the missing paint on the booster which mimics the warehouse stunt, i can’t confirm it is the warehouse stunt, but you can see the big black spots on it (it actually had less paint on the booster then the v2 does at this time)

Either they continually add gaffers tape to the v3, or there is two different stunts

I lean towards two different stunts because the emitters are different.. and the gaffer tape is different. I don’t see why they would remove the tape on some locations.. unless the end of the duel was filmed first?

I would need all the photos I have time stamped to further prove if it was 2 stunts..

But as of right now, “today” I believe 2 bladed kenobi’s are used in the throne room..

Ask me again tomorrow I may have already changed my mind :p
 

Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
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thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Yea, let me reiterate, there a mountain of info here. I'm trying to work progressively off of what we have already figured out, and not just question everything all the time. I didn't mean to come off that way, we just already know as far back as the warehouse the V3 or V4(?) Had a windvane grub screw in the same place as we see on the V3 today. I dont think theres a need to go back on that yet
 

Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Yea, let me reiterate, there a mountain of info here. I'm trying to work progressively off of what we have already figured out, and not just question everything all the time. I didn't mean to come off that way, we just already know as far back as the warehouse the V3 or V4(?) Had a windvane grub screw in the same place as we see on the V3 today. I dont think theres a need to go back on that yet
Wait a minute… this windvane grub screw on the warehouse stunt.. this is a public photo? If so can you show me? This is new to me
 

thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Wait a minute… this windvane grub screw on the warehouse stunt.. this is a public photo? If so can you show me? This is new to me
I THINK it's public because I found it just out there running wild on the internet, and I have posted it already..... and my hard drive failed. So.. let me find a link and data recovery for myself...
 

Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I THINK it's public because I found it just out there running wild on the internet, and I have posted it already..... and my hard drive failed. So.. let me find a link and data recovery for myself...
Hate when that happens.. I lost one a few years back with thousands of reference photos but more importantly over 1200 photos of me and my dad restoring my car when I was 17.. sucks when it happens
 

thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Hate when that happens.. I lost one a few years back with thousands of reference photos but more importantly over 1200 photos of me and my dad restoring my car when I was 17.. sucks when it happens
oh thats awful! At least you have the memories... *cringe*

I may be hitting some people up for photos or dredging them from the RPF soon. The image in question here is a high res version of David Prowse and Mark Hamill posing with their sabers
 

Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
oh thats awful! At least you have the memories... *cringe*

I may be hitting some people up for photos or dredging them from the RPF soon. The image in question here is a high res version of David Prowse and Mark Hamill posing with their sabers
Shoot! I know exactly, tonight I’ll post my highest rez
 

BRRogers

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
94D62483-016F-4F3C-BAF6-29AB6464D8D1.jpeg
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I guess I finally have my own theory to contribute just from a geometry end.

- At my work we recently acquired and restored duplicator lathe:
This one in particular likely reproduced wooden staircase spindles in a custom shop.

I’m feeling leery putting my reproduction MK1 into it for the sake of this theory (the mirroring arm can be harsh on the donor profile).. but I did get a rather nice result from one of the machined V2 replicas currently in my collection (SH).
1BD1CAA0-A61D-4E6E-A718-28011AB0F08D.jpeg

That is how it looks when it first comes off
The duplicator… the rest has to be finished manually on a traditional lathe.
31E0D870-5C3D-4910-9A8B-8157D553E7BD.jpeg

Once painted black; the result is striking.

I do feel rather confident that- when looking at the wooden buck and metal castings in that exist in private collections: the geometry and miniature marks match the MK1 (with the handwheel not fully tightened onto the booster) exactly, in consideration with the way this kind of machine works. IE the nuance of the booster fin profile, the taper from an imperfectly straight hilt, and the clamp itself captured (if impartially) on a duplicator.
 

thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Carried over from Facebook - I find it odd that the grip rings would end up un-evenly spaced if it was duplicating the steel frag body.

This is a super cool idea and I had no idea these even existed until the other day :D
 

PoopaPapaPalps

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I think this gives credence to the idea that they didn't have the exact prop to work from, but probably a photo that they just winged by eye or took relative measurements from. LOM and I talked about some time back seeing the what the production schedule was like.
 

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