Halliwax's weird V3 theory

DaveP

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I believe it to be the wired saber…

Notice the chip in the clamp box front and back, the weathering on the d ring pommel cube, and the black tiger stripe above the d ring cube matched perfectly

View attachment 1509018
This is SO incredibly cool! Those are 100% the same prop! There are matches all over the place! What a find! :love:

That double chip in the emitter looks a lot like the chips in the air cannon prop too:

RESIN.JPG


I'd love to know if that smaller, single chip was present further round (out of view in the above shots)!
 

DaveP

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
You can see 2 different casts on screen for the gag. It was reported that there were at least 7 and they did a number of takes
Yeah, I spotted that. Or at least that there's definitely 2 levels of damage. Interesting that the more damaged one is the one that appears first, but that doesn't always mean that it was filmed first of course.

I'm talking about the one we see first. The long, double chip looks like a match to me:

canon.jpg
 

thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Yeah, I spotted that. Or at least that there's definitely 2 levels of damage. Interesting that the more damaged one is the one that appears first, but that doesn't always mean that it was filmed first of course.

I'm talking about the one we see first. The long, double chip looks like a match to me:

View attachment 1509648
Hah! Yep, I feel like I thought that when the picture came out and just was too focused on the coloring. I agree that's quite the coincidence if not. I didn't think this one was rotocast, but we have no pics of the bottom.

It could also be the "elevator" part of the gag was done with a solid stunt and then the second shot was firing the air cannon ones.

The two casts are very different. The second has softer edges, is more squashed and better painted. Structurally, they seem like different casts to me. The second is one of the rotocast ones.
Screen Shot 2019-11-18 at 6.00.07 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-11-18 at 6.01.00 PM.png
 

thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
This scene is what got me into the hobby. I noticed R2 carrying one kind of saber, Luke catching a very different one, and then swinging a THIRD kind of saber, and then climbing up the sail barge with a FOURTH saber......

Hold On Wait GIF by filmeditor


And then come to find the saber in this thread isn't even one of those. My favorite kind of rabbit hole.

Anyways, it's exciting to start looking at the casts of this saber. I really wonder if Lucasfilm sill has the molds, considering they did a rotocast version and probably a solid one (barge climbing saber with nipple). Just occurred to me the barge climbing saber could have been molded with different parts too..
 

Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
This scene is what got me into the hobby. I noticed R2 carrying one kind of saber, Luke catching a very different one, and then swinging a THIRD kind of saber, and then climbing up the sail barge with a FOURTH saber......

Hold On Wait GIF by filmeditor


And then come to find the saber in this thread isn't even one of those. My favorite kind of rabbit hole.

Anyways, it's exciting to start looking at the casts of this saber. I really wonder if Lucasfilm sill has the molds, considering they did a rotocast version and probably a solid one (barge climbing saber with nipple). Just occurred to me the barge climbing saber could have been molded with different parts too..
I bet they still have the molds..
 

Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
This is also bothering me… dimple from the clay they used to fill the windvane screw .. or was it never drilled and this is a dimple from a stunt that was never drilled..
CCCE3204-FE42-45B4-AEE9-BCC4C260F464.jpeg
 

Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
idk... now i think im seeing matching marks...

Red arrow is matching smooth edge, opposite side of cube is sharp in both pictures

Green arrow is matching scratch mark (am i reaching here?)

Blue Arrow is matching deep pommel cube cut (ironically matches right side of D ring cube, which i have seen in another reference photo)
pommel A.jpg
 

BRRogers

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
set screw sticking out creates undercuts on the threads for casting which isn't necessarily ideal but I also don't know if they would've sweat that.....
They could've pulled it and plugged with clay and cast it with the pommel sitting in loosely; in which case a clay plug would be necessary (per the cube hole as well).
Halliwax I see the marks you're describing.
What I can ALSO see in the casting is the radial machining marks that have about the same relief in the aluminum tape on the V3 in addition to the SAME dimple from the 'wiring hole' that's covered by said aluminum tape.
 

thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I have always wondered if the foil tape was done for Jedi because they needed a silver hilt. More silver than It was, and this was one of the duelers for the throne room. That would explain the same depth of the wire hole in the pommel... the tape wasn't for the tour in the 90s but earlier
 

Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
set screw sticking out creates undercuts on the threads for casting which isn't necessarily ideal but I also don't know if they would've sweat that.....
They could've pulled it and plugged with clay and cast it with the pommel sitting in loosely; in which case a clay plug would be necessary (per the cube hole as well).
Halliwax I see the marks you're describing.
What I can ALSO see in the casting is the radial machining marks that have about the same relief in the aluminum tape on the V3 in addition to the SAME dimple from the 'wiring hole' that's covered by said aluminum tape.


ref1.jpg


right there?
 

PoopaPapaPalps

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
This is also bothering me… dimple from the clay they used to fill the windvane screw .. or was it never drilled and this is a dimple from a stunt that was never drilled.. View attachment 1510214

I'm quite sure now that the grub screw has always been on the V3 at this point. I always bit my tongue when it came to the catwalk BTS shot of Vader holding the V3; I'm positive that the grub screw can be faintly seen in that. If it's on the cast, in relation to the rest of the grub locations, it'd be almost on the edge of windvane in this photo. At this point, with all that's available, I'm certain the V3 and the Yuma stunt both originally functioned the same way: blade w/ tang slots into bore into completely static hilt through the emitter and locked down in the hilt itself; the V3 having a grub screw in the windvane for that.


Same in this pic, the plugged wire hole would be right where it is today: top left corner of the pommel cube immediately left of the d-ring cube. I think you can faintly make it out in the pic right above this.

Someone should do a good resin stunt cast so we can add this to the family!!

I certainly thought about it. I'm still thinking about it. I have to clear my plate first on further refining my making process though.
 

DaveP

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Makes sense to me that they'd cover the set screw before making the moulds. I assumed, based on the broken neck theory, that the heavy duty fixings were added to the emitter and windvane after the neck had failed. I assume the cast was made before this happened, which would explain why they're missing?

I don't think you're reaching at all with those details, Halliwax ! They look to be a perfect match to me! That little nick in the DRing cube is pretty convincing. Both of these are likely to have picked up a lot of details independently since the cast was made too. The details that do match have me convinced though.
 

DaveP

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Not the windvane - that was the access for the tang while it was used for duelling
As always, I'm not just looking for disagreement, Tom. Just trying to get the sequence of events sorted out in my head... :)

But do we know for sure that the V3 was used for duelling prior to the moulds being made? As I understand it, the V2 was used for duelling practice during ESB. Is there any evidence that the V3 was too?

We know the V2 was repurposed on day one of shooting ROTJ. Maybe once they realised they needed the resin stunts as well, they grabbed the V3 for making the moulds (Before it had ever seen any real action)?

Looking at the cast, it appears to me that the moulds were made prior to the neck having been broken too? The windvane set screw seems to me to be in response to the break, and wouldn't have been necessary until they began using the V3 as a duelling stunt.

Do we actually know when that was? What if (Big IF) the V3 was never needed/used for duelling until after the V2 had been taken out of service (for use as the belt hanger)??

The windvane/emitter screws seem to be absent still at this stage of production:

ROTJ V3.jpg
 

PoopaPapaPalps

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
But do we know for sure that the V3 was used for duelling prior to the moulds being made? As I understand it, the V2 was used for duelling practice during ESB. Is there any evidence that the V3 was too?

I don't think there is any real way to prove it without clearer images or first-hand accounts the former is either private information, or doesn't exist, and the latter would be impossible as the people who were around then handling the stuff likely didn't give two cents about details; it was just there to use. What we do have circumstantially implies that it most certainly would've been---these things have been hot swapped and interchanged since ANH. The Ben medium-wide BTS with him holding up a hilt to his face is certainly the V3 based on the details we can match, and there isn't anything in the way of definite or clearer after that, that I have seen publicly on the forums, until RotJ and post-RotJ (and that's only stuff that's come out recently).

We know the V2 was repurposed on day one of shooting ROTJ. Maybe once they realised they needed the resin stunts as well, they grabbed the V3 for making the moulds (Before it had ever seen any real action)?

Looking at the cast, it appears to me that the moulds were made prior to the neck having been broken too? The windvane set screw seems to me to be in response to the break, and wouldn't have been necessary until they began using the V3 as a duelling stunt.

Do we actually know when that was? What if (Big IF) the V3 was never needed/used for duelling until after the V2 had been taken out of service (for use as the belt hanger)??

The windvane/emitter screws seem to be absent still at this stage of production:

Considering the sequence of events that seemed to have happen, what with the Graflex being swapped out last minute for a different hilt at the Sandstorm sequence, this is most likely the case. The crew grabbed whatever they had--the V2-- and used that because it already had a corresponding double--the V3--to use for gags and stuff. Again, it's circumstantial, but the V3 most likely would've been used for fencing and stunts just based on the fact that there aren't many multiples either surviving from ANH, or carried through from ANH. The production for the later films used as much as possible from the first film that was saved, and this ranges from props and costume pieces. Multiple resin casts of the Obi hilt don't come into conversation until RotJ, based on what there is, and were made for anything that may have not needed dueling with but some stunt anyway: Luke tossing it away, the air cannon stuff in the States, etc.

The resin casts support, at this time, the V3 didn't have the emitter it has now, you're also right about that; the reasons for sure as to why it needed replacing we may never know---but something did happen to it that warranted replacing sometime after the shooting wrapped, it seems.

Personally, I think the windvane screw was there on the V3 from the beginning. It doubles to keep the emitter on the hilt in the present day, but I think back then it functioned much like the retention screws on the Yuma at the time: it secured the blade in the hilt. It may not be seen in this photo, or any other photo around this time for that matter (which is the damnedest luck), but I think it was there, it just seems too practical to not have. To have the emitter like it is in this photo, too, implies to me that the V3 at this time was static much like Yuma, too.
 

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. Your new thread title is very short, and likely is unhelpful.
  2. Your reply is very short and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  3. Your reply is very long and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  4. It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose.
  5. Your message is mostly quotes or spoilers.
  6. Your reply has occurred very quickly after a previous reply and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  7. This thread is locked.
Top