Giving Enterprise a second chance

[tgreco]

so I've rewatched all of TNG and DS9... I gave up on Star Trek during the run of Voyager... I'm sorry, but I hated everything about it.

I just always felt Voyager was slapped together, and underwritten. It was just... so generic. And because of that I kind of ignored Enterprise.

And here I am, watching season 1, and I'm really really enjoying it.

anyone else finding Enterprise better than they expected?

 

[micdavis]

Yes, I quit on every show except TNG, but came back to enjoy them all.

 

[darthgordon]

I gave up on Enterprise sometime in the middle of season 2. I came back to it at the end because some episodes looked interesting to me in the previews. I was surprised at how much better it had gotten. According to a lot of people behind the scenes, things started to turn around when they brought on Manny Cotto as a producer. Unfortunately, by the time the show had gotten better, no one was watching.

So I revisited it in syndication and when viewed in conjunction with those last two seasons... knowing where it's going... it's a lot better.

But then again, I also I enjoyed Voyager. My main complaint with Voyager was... in my opinion, Berman was a little perturbed with how far DS9 had strayed from Roddenberry's original ideas for the TNG era (even though I loved DS9). So since Voyager was more his baby, I think he tried to reel it back into Roddenberry's Box. In doing so they became a bit too timid with the characters; creating a lack of drama and character development.

When going to Enterprise they were able to change things up a bit because these are pre-Kirk era Starfleet. They could stumble and had to find their footing in earlier interstellar travel. So it shakes things up a bit.

...wasn't too thrilled with dropping "Star Trek" in the first two seasons or the theme song... or the illegal Vulcan mindmelds... but I think there was some good there too.

 

[micdavis]

I think they got a little heavy handed in linking episodes to other Trek.

 

[JBReplicas]

I liked Enterprise a lot, granted there were a few bad episodes but the same can be said of any Trek, I loved the Andorians and the way they were intergrated into the story arc, whilst I enjoyed the borg episode 'Regeneration' I felt it had been a little bit 'shoe horned' in to please the masses, also I think the ship design could have been a little more in keeping with the TOS enterprise, nevertheless I found it enjoyable, certainly more so than most of Voyager, which I felt just went on and on, and on

 

[MattMunson]

My advice would be to completely NOT watch the last episode of Enterprise. The fourth season is actually really strong, as Coto was at the helm, instead of Berman/Braga. However, B&B stepped in for the last episode and pretty much undid everything that coto managed to do with the prior episodes. It might be one of the biggest let downs of a last episode ever. Though the last episode of Voyager was pretty darn awful.

Just unplug your dvd player after the peter weller episodes (which are GREAT, by the way!!) and call it a night.

 

[darthgordon]

See, I didn't see TATV as being horrible as an episode

Spoiler

(aside from the killing of Trip, which is one of Braga's sick fetishes, to kill of good characters because he wants to be the one to do it),

but as a series finale it stinks. It's not even about the crew of the series they're supposed to be wrapping up. If the episode had occurred earlier in the season, I don't think people would hate it so much.

I also don't agree with the demonizing that B&B have incurred in the last few years... particularly with Berman. I think Berman fell subject to the same problem that Roddenberry did. Over the years, Roddenberry started to see himself as not only the father of Star Trek but a visionary with a powerful message. He became so possessive of Star Trek (even though he had no problem bowing out in the 3rd season of TOS) that the only movie after TMP (which was the only one he produced) he seemed to like was IV. He wanted to create a world in TNG that human conflict did not exist (which gave writers problems). I think Berman saw himself as the carrier of Roddenberry's torch and as such, eventually fell into the same trap.

Braga did do a lot of good with some good stories and both were there at the helm during the height of Star Trek's popularity in the '90s. But Braga rose up too quickly through the ranks and became arrogant. But even with Coto as producer, he was still very much involved in the last two seasons.

Either way, neither of them could hold a demonic flame next to the flames bellowing and spewing from the very bowels of Hell that pour out of Abrams' twisted and soulless shell. They burn hotter than a million nova and with more anger than every madman in Humanity's history (I think to be considered cool on the internet, you've to complain about something... and complaining about B&B or Lucas has been done to death )

 

[DuneMuadDib]

Time travel in the very first episode should have been a warning sign to me, it certainly had me rolling my eyes. Two episodes in a row in the second season involving shuttlepod crashes should have been a warning sign to me as well. A lot of the hinting at future technology or encountering races they shouldn't have in the first couple of seasons didn't work for me either. Aside from digging some of the M.A.C.O. stuff from season 3 I don't remember much of it, probably for the better.

As has been said, season 4 was a marked improvement. I quite enjoyed seeing things that actually affected the creation of the Federation in that season, and the nods to what was to come in the timeline worked very well for me. Just night and day.

I'll echo what Matt said, don't watch the last episode. No matter what Berman and Braga claim it's a huge middle finger to the show, the actors, and the fans of the show. Voyager's finale was at least par for the course with their affinity for deux ex machina, time travel, and Janeway's random choice morality. Enterprise's finale wasn't even an episode of Enterprise really, and was a repugnant way to end Trek's presence on TV.

 

[robn1]

I think they got a little heavy handed in linking episodes to other Trek.

Agreed. Enterprise was at it's best when it stood on it's own. First two seasons were fine. Third sucked beyond belief; a terrible plot with a whole season devoted to it. Season 4 was better but it came too late. And the multi-episode arcs got out of hand. The "Augments" story would have been fine as a single episode, the 3 parter was mostly filler.

But I really liked the early episodes, the first steps into the unknown. Inventing space exploration as they go, it was cool.

 

[SSgt Burton]

It's funny this thread should come up as I never watched Enterprise beyond the third episode in its initial run.

Since then I have watched the odd episode when they were included in those multi series dvd boxsets (Borg, Q, Time Travel etc).

"In a Mirror Darkly" was beyond fantastic! However the Finale indeed was terrible; the only good thing was the montage of Enterprises at the very end before the credits.

So... I've been jonesing from some more Trek lately and figured "here is an entire series I haven't watched." I've been debating buying the boxsets.

One thing I will say is that even the dvd transfer looks amazing on my tv, unlike TNG which looks terrible.

Oh and Kevin (DG), try one day to give AbramsTrek a chance. I hated the film when I first watched it, and I still think Abrams is an arrogant ass, however I've recently warmed up to it (I guess two years of cooling off is what it took :lol). It actually got a lot better with repeated viewings. Despite Abrams claiming to have never watched a single episode, it does have many similarities to the Original Series.

Nicholas Meyer never watched Trek either.


Kevin

 

[MooCriket]

I enjoyed it for the most part, however it really began to annoy me just how much the Enterprise got it's ass handed to them in pretty much every episode. Scott Bakula...really just did not like his character at all. I would have been much happier seeing Trip at the helm and I think the Xindi story went on waaaaay to long.

 

[CB2001]

"In a Mirror Darkly" was beyond fantastic! However the Finale indeed was terrible; the only good thing was the montage of Enterprises at the very end before the credits.

That was the only two-part episode I wouldn't mind watching 20 times in a straight row voluntarily, whereas everything else I'd probably only watch once or twice out of boredom.

Honestly, I kinda wish they'd just do a Mirror Universe series that fills-in the gap between the episodes of the shows we've seen.

 

[masterjedi322]

I'm muddling my way through Voyager now with plans of watching Enterprise next. I'm about half way through VOY, and it's as bad as I remember it. But I'm committed now, so I gots to finish it!

Sean

 

[terryr]

There is too much about Enterprise that bugs me, from the design of the ship to sexy-izing Vulcans.

B&B got away producing crap because of the fanboys wanting anything Star Trek. Their own show tanked fast. And they blamed.....star trek fans. They had gotten big heads and thought people liked them, when it was ST they wanted.

 

[TheDoctor]

Not at all - it's actually WORSE then I remember. I recently watched "In a Mirror, Darkly", which was one of the few episodes of Enterprise I held in hight esteem. The acting was horrible (especially Archer and T'Pol), everything was so over the top, and the best parts about the show were 'borrowed' from TOS. The Gorn was still pretty neat though. The ONLY thing I liked about it was seeing the Defiant as a really powerful ship. Having grown up with TNG, I always saw the TOS ships as pretty whussy.

For me, even Enterprise's best episodes were on-par with Voyagers lamer episodes. I know Scott Bakula can act, having recently watched Quantum Leap on Netflix, but in Enterprise he was just about the worst actor I've ever seen in Trek... except for maybe T'Pol. I like Kes better than T'Pol... KES!!! The only characters that were even remotely interesting were Hoshi and Reed. I never understood why people liked Trip - he was okay and I guess he shined in comparison to the others, but he was pretty mediocre.

At least Voyage still felt like Star Trek. Enterprise felt like a completely different show which they stuck some Trek references in just to play on the name.

I would rather watch the "Warp 10" episode of Voyager than ANY episode of Enterprise.

 

[tgreco]

well as I finish out season 1 here's what I've got

I like almost everybody on the crew, but I'm not crazy about Scott Bakula... he is the weakest link. He just doesn't inhabit the character the same way Shatner was Kirk, and Stewart was Picard.

But I am enjoying the stories with the beginnings of the Federation, and the first contact episodes. And I like the tone, and the almost NASA-esque beginnings of Starfleet.

The temporal cold war thing is pretty meh... but there's only been a couple of episodes about it so far.

Is it as good as TNG or DS9? no. But it is better than Voyager

And I'm sorry to the naysayers but Neelix is easily the most annoying and worst character in Trek history.

 

[Wes R]

I caught the Enterprise episodes on scifi and liked it. To me the weakest of the shows was Voyager. DS9 was good because it was a change of pace.

 

[micdavis]

DS9 was good because it was a change of pace.

Sure it was, because Paramount passed on Babylon 5, then tried to make it.

It's good, but it's definitely a different kind of Star Trek. To begin with, they really don't Trek too much.

"To boldly go.....as far as we reasonably can each week while tied to a space station."

 

[Wes R]

B5 was one of those shows that got better as time went on too. It was way better than B5 for sure. Hopefully the next Trek show will learn from the past issues and be a knockout.

 

[Treadwell]

"Mirror Darkly" was awesome from a TOS nostalgia standpoint, but I have to agree that Bakula was terrible in it. It also didn't have a good guy for the audience to root for. Everyone was a Mirror Universe homicidal a-hole. So evil Hoshi establishes herself via betrayal and murder. Um, yay?

That's why the original works so well--good people pretending to be bad until they can get out of there (and they save a cat, er I mean the Halkans, in the bargain).