Ghostbusters movie by Paul Feig

Re: Ghostbusters 3

If someone made a remake of the Tomb Raider games starring Larry Croft, you'd get a lot of women up in arms because they think it's sexist to change the gender of the character, yet when it's Ghostbusters and a gimmick to change the characters to female, people are supposed to just accept it? That seems a bit absurd, doesn't it? Now I don't care about the gender of any of the characters, if it's good actors (which in this case it isn't) and a good story (which we have no idea about so far), then what difference does it make? But it shouldn't be one gender or another just because you think it'll spark some attention and make some extra money, that's just ridiculous (which granted, Hollywood is entirely ridiculous).
 
Re: Ghostbusters 3

They made a remake of Tomb Raider and named him Nathan Drake. And Lara Croft is less a feminist icon and more of a male fantasy.

Putting Harrison Ford in EP7 is a "gimmick." Putting Nimoy in JJTrek is a "gimmick." Remaking Old Boy with Josh Brolin is a "gimmick." Remaking Psycho shot for shot (with Vince Vaughn no less) is a "gimmick." Filming the same boy growing up for 12 years is a "gimmick."

"Gimmicks" happen all the time.

Oh, and I defy anyone to say that Dame Judy Dench didn't do an excellent job as M.
 
Re: Ghostbusters 3

Its not really a gimmick to put the stars of the original films into a sequel for the same films, its called continuity.
 
Re: Ghostbusters 3

Dan Aykroyd: New 'Ghostbusters' Cast Is "Magnificent"

"The Aykroyd family is delighted by this inheritance of the Ghostbusters torch by these most magnificent women in comedy. My great grandfather, Dr. Sam Aykroyd, the original Ghostbuster, was a man who empowered women in his day, and this is a beautiful development in the legacy of our family business.”
- Dan Akroyd

And they did that whole "empowering women" from the beginning. Hello..... ZUUL!

Geeze.... does every movie now require that you empower both sexes?

For GHOSTBUSTERS, it was 4 college guy scientist friends who opened a business to capture ghosts. I don't think they ever thought, "Uh oh, we don't have any women on our team. Do you think the city will be pissed and accuse us of being sexist?" Of course fast forward to today and the answer seems to clearly be yes.
 
Re: Ghostbusters 3

They made a remake of Tomb Raider and named him Nathan Drake. And Lara Croft is less a feminist icon and more of a male fantasy.

Neither Tomb Raider nor Uncharted invented the lost-treasure-hunting genre. They are just two different games (with rather different stories and characters) that use the setting.

Putting Harrison Ford in EP7 is a "gimmick."

How is an actor reprising his role in the continuation of a series of films a gimmick?

Remaking Old Boy with Josh Brolin is a "gimmick."

I would call that more a form of seriously overdone translation in an effort to exploit an IP, since english-speaking audiences usually don't like subtitled movies!

Oh, and I defy anyone to say that Dame Judy Dench didn't do an excellent job as M.

She did a fantastic job as M. The Bond movies are almost gimmicks unto themselves and they all exist in some kind of pseudo-cohesive semi-canonical universe where current geopolitics flavor the mood of the current film.

I'll say it again. I would be 100% fine and dandy (both at the same time, for those that get the joke) with an all-female cast, gimmicky or not, if they had just made it a continuation of the old timeline. That seems to be what most fans feel. Set it 30 years later or whatever. A group of women get into 'busting and talk about some defunct and bankrupt franchise that went on 30 years ago... they seek out Zeddemore, Ray or Venkman for some advice... they get the logo and then take it from there. It doesn't have to go deeper than that. Just do a proper and respectful passing of the torch for the people that made the old films and those that have been keeping the flame burning for so long. That way, all three films would still be "valid" and canon in the public eye, no matter if the new movie is good or not.

My feeling is that, ironically, Feig & Co are likely ignoring the originals as a reaction to all the fans crying out. A lot of creative types (myself included), will go the exact opposite direction than what "everyone" is yelling. If you say "you must paint that BLUE" on a project that I'm personally invested in or passionate about, I'm probably gonna paint it red, or maybe teal because then it's almost blue. Feig is likely thinking along the lines of "I'll show these whining fanboys..." and then if (when) the movie tanks, the perfect excuse is "Well, the fans never really gave it a chance.".


I must admit though, that in complaining about this I do feel just a tinge hypocritical, because I absolutely loved the Galactica reboot. It's one of my top-five shows of all time and so much better than the original. Moore and his crew went through these same fan-related issues. Oh, the outcry when Starbuck was turned into a woman! Ultimately though,as beloved as the series was for me as a kid (I got to hear the theme played live last year and it nearly brought me to tears), it just hasn't aged well at all. The social and moral themes it presented are just so entrenched in the time in which the original was made and the entire show has an air of naive ignorance about it. I tried watching it as an adult and just felt embarrassed at times at the cheese that poured out of my television set. (To say nothing of how I reacted to seeing Buck Rogers do his 70s futuristic disco dancing!) However, Moore kinda put something in there that didn't really invalidate the old show. The line "All of this has happened before...". Ghostbusters however, in comparison, has aged well, for the most part, so there is not really good excuse to do a total reboot.
 
Re: Ghostbusters 3

>snip<

...which begs the question... then why not create your own character?

"...the sad reality of present-day Hollywood is that it’s easier to make a movie if you have some pre-existing material to build off of."


and his answer is Established brands with Established audiences.
He as much as admits in his own article, the only way ANYONE would watch these items is because they are already attached to ESTABLISHED PROPERTIES.
If they weren't, they would most like fail.

...

If the movie was announced exactly as is, and it was called Supernatural Trapper Ladies no one would give a whiff.

He can dress it up in semantics anyway he would like, but it's a gimmick. A marketing gimmick.
The only reason anyone is talking about a movie staring these 4 women, that doesn't start shooting until this summer, is because they slapped the label Ghostbusters on it.

This is basically what I've been saying about the "branded properties" trend in films for ages. If your movie is so awesome, then let it stand on its own. For all the talk of "We need to use this as a springboard to get women more into the public eye in Hollywood," let's also recognize that the comment follows on having mentioned that Paul Feig was behind Bridesmaids which was a movie that stood on its own and was widely popular and a financial success. So, again, do we really need these "branded properties," or are we just using them to prop up otherwise mediocre films or films that are basically knockoffs of better ideas?

As I've said before, if you strip the branded intellectual property out of G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra or Transformers, and retitle them American Commandos and Warbots, respectively, would anyone see them? Would anyone think they're good? Probably not. They'd say they're crappy knockoffs of branded properties. I'd say the same of this film if it was four of the white male "Judd Apatow Players" and they were rebooting it while also changing it, by the way.

As for the line in the article about how "If you think this is controversial, you're sexist," well....yeeaaaah, not so much. I can recognize that a particular move or decision is likely to be seen as controversial without personally being offended or scandalized by it. Likewise, I can see how such controversy will generate press, which can be used to make a film more popular and get people curious about what all the commotion is about.

Likewise, as for the whole "You're just saying 'don't play with my toys,'" argument, first, ditch the infantilizing tone, since all it's likely to do is get people to respond with vitriol. Second, no, that's not at all what people are saying. What they're saying is that the choice to (A) reboot the series, and (B) engage in what is likely stunt casting is indicative that the film may well suck, and they'd rather that a franchise they love be continued in a way they'll love.

People take this attitude because, time and again, they've seen the modern Hollywood take a brand that they loved and drive it in a direction they don't love and which has relatively little to do with what they did love about the old brand. Likewise, they've seen Hollywood and the entertainment industry in general use "controversy" to drive buzz about a product, only to have the product end up fairly ho-hum in the end.



Let me try and put this another way. I'm sure there are fans who don't want female Ghostbusters because they think "Girls can't be Ghostbusters!" or whatever. And yeah, those people are sexist a-holes. But there are a lot of people who look at this and the decision to reboot the franchise as nothing more than the same old reboot bull**** we've been seeing for years. The fact that they decided to make the cast all female only further suggests that we're moving away from the source material, which, again, calls into question why you are using the source material at all. The answer, apparently, is "Because we want the name to sell tickets, and everything else can be different." In other words, it won't really be "Ghostbusters." It'll just be called "Ghostbusters" and otherwise bear only the flimsiest connection to the original material. I, and apparently plenty of other folks, am getting tired of this. If your story is so good that it's worth spending tens of millions of dollars to make it and bring it to the big screen, then have the guts to do so without relying on brand names and "controversial" moves to get people interested. And if your story isn't good enough to stand on its own without that stuff...maybe it just isn't all that great after all.
 
Re: Ghostbusters 3

Its not really a gimmick to put the stars of the original films into a sequel for the same films, its called continuity.

Don't miss the forest for the trees. I could defend the point about Harrison, but its a tangent. Point is "gimmicks" happen all the time
 
Re: Ghostbusters 3

I keep hearing mixed reports: that it IS in the same universe as the first two films (so a "sequel"), and that it's not (so a "reboot") - it's the reboot path I'm not a fan of.
 
Re: Ghostbusters 3

I myself don't have much of a problem with the all female cast of the new Ghostbusters, at least not that much, what I do have a problem is with the women they cast and the tone of the movie that we'll get as a result. If they were deadset on getting an all female lead cast they could have at least cast some women with some real acting chops, women who are equal to or better than the original cast during their prime.
 
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Many reboots these days are actually remakes of those original films updated for modern times. The new Total Recall and Robocop movies are examples of that.

Rise of the Planet of the Apes is more so a hard reboot which essentially takes elements from the classic sequels, but wasn't really a remake of any of the prior movies.

All James Bond movies with new actors playing Bond were essentially a soft reboot.

I keep hearing mixed reports: that it IS in the same universe as the first two films (so a "sequel"), and that it's not (so a "reboot") - it's the reboot path I'm not a fan of.
The new Ghostbusters is not a sequel nor a remake, but indeed a hard reboot. In this reboot universe the first big ghost encounter is yet to happen.
 
Re: Ghostbusters 3

They made a remake of Tomb Raider and named him Nathan Drake. And Lara Croft is less a feminist icon and more of a male fantasy..

But what they didn't do is call it Tomb Raider: Drake's Fortune. And there lies the distinction.
They called it Uncharted, and they let it stand or fall on it's own merits.
They didn't slap the Tomb Raider title on the cover to sell copies of the game.
 
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Re: Ghostbusters 3

Many reboots these days are actually remakes of those original films updated for modern times. The new Total Recall and Robocop movies are examples of that.

Those two are excellent examples of what I'm talking about. they stray pretty far from the original films, while trying to also maintain core concepts and plot points from them...and they were both pretty weak. They had potential to be good, but they failed in the execution.

I think that the Bond series is really almost a thing unto itself and can't effectively be compared to anything else except, perhaps, Doctor Who, simply because of how it works, and how it's worked in the past. And after all, the "hard-ish" reboot of Casino Royale and it's two sequels have not been universally loved by fans of the previous films.


Ultimately, I think the issue I have with all of this is that I just see more of Hollywood's lazy fingerprints on the product, and so far that's all I see. Maybe it'll improve and I'll see more than I like, maybe not. But what confirmed info (not rumors -- confirmed info) we have at the moment...does not inspire me. Hard reboot, gender-flipped cast...it just seems like someone at the studio is saying, "Whatever. Slap a name on it and the morons will line up to see it." I'm just tired of that. Not only does it not continue stories I might not mind seeing continued (if they could be done well), but it also means that these films are getting money where other, maybe more original, interesting, FRESH ideas...are not.

The article that says "It's not a gimmick" basically excuses Hollywood for feeling the need to keep raiding existing properties while rebooting/remaking/reimagining them, and just kinda shrugs and says "Sadly, that's how Hollywood works," then goes on to berate everyone as sexist babychildren for not simply accepting this and then cheering at the fact that these women have been tapped for the film. I'm not ready to let Hollywood off the hook so easily, though, and that's why I'm griping about this.

The culture of the film industry needs to change. More risks need to be taken, more new properties need to be developed.
 
Re: Ghostbusters 3

But what they didn't do is call it Tomb Raider: Drake's Fortune. And there lies the distinction.
They called it Uncharted, and they let it stand or fall on it's own merits.
They didn't slap the Tomb Raider title on the cover to sell copies of the game.

I think that's an excellent way of looking at it.

If something has nothing to do with the original on which it based - why invoke the name of the original? There's a single reason, to try and grab an existing audience and not have to stand completely on your own.

Total Recall was a book, or short story actually I think. If two people want to make that a movie and call it Total Recall, that's one thing. It does tie back to the original story. Naming the new one Total Recall wasn't really an attempt to get fans of the original to see it.

The flip side I suppose is the way a successful movie is determined these days. First weekend. A film doesn't do week 1 it's written off as a bomb. Not just by the studio but by nearly every media outlet. You think you'll get a big audience for something that everyone trashes as a failure week one? Hardly. It's the ADHD world we live in. You no longer see movies in the theaters for multiple months at a time. The last big lasting one I think was Titanic which hung around 4-5 months. And that's anomaly at best. Given what they've turned the business into, you've gotta pull all the bs you can to get people out there week 1. Hence, using the GB to sell tickets. Is it right? Probably not, but it's not likely going to change.
 
Re: Ghostbusters 3

The flip side I suppose is the way a successful movie is determined these days. First weekend. A film doesn't do week 1 it's written off as a bomb. Not just by the studio but by nearly every media outlet. You think you'll get a big audience for something that everyone trashes as a failure week one? Hardly. It's the ADHD world we live in. You no longer see movies in the theaters for multiple months at a time. The last big lasting one I think was Titanic which hung around 4-5 months. And that's anomaly at best. Given what they've turned the business into, you've gotta pull all the bs you can to get people out there week 1. Hence, using the GB to sell tickets. Is it right? Probably not, but it's not likely going to change.

I'd disagree with that, to a point. I think that movies that don't make big numbers in their opening weekend are considered flops because they usually don't do too well later on if it doesn't do well its opening weekend. There are exceptions but in general weak opening weekend box office numbers means it's not going to do any better later on. Then again, just because it's considered to be a flop in the US doesn't mean that it's a total write off, now a days good foreign box office sales can turn a US flop into a financial success for the studio which is why we sometimes get sequels to movies that you have to wonder why a sequel got greenlit.

As for movies sticking around in theaters, that depends a lot on when the movie comes out and how well it does. If it comes out at the height of the summer movie season then, yes, it's probably not going to be around for long because there are so many movies coming out competing for theater space and theaters, as large as they are these days, only have so many screens and the big summer release is often going to be shown on at least 2 screens which further lessens the available screens for showing older (as in weeks older) movies. But if a movie is a huge hit then the theater is going to keep it showing for a lot longer than a lesser movie because it makes them money. What also can affect the longevity of a movie is if it's released close to awards season and actually gets nominated and/or wins, a Golden Globe or Oscar nomination while the movie is still in the theaters can keep it in there for longer and if it actually wins it will keep it in there for even longer. In other cases, an award nomination or especially a win can bring a movie that's left the theaters back in for another run because of the interest in it generated by the award nomination or win.
 
Re: Ghostbusters 3

The culture of the film industry needs to change. More risks need to be taken, more new properties need to be developed.
I agree, the industry needs to change and so should the audience. More new properties are being developed it's just that not many are talking about it nor will they support it for some reason.

Ask any moviegoer which 10 genre movies they have seen in the theatres in 2014 (that's less than one movie per month) which was not based on a existing property. And I don't mean just indie dramas. Most (including myself perhaps) would have a hard time coming up with names, cause most make the trip to the cinemas these days for known movie properties only. Lesser known new movies sometimes don't even make it here, hence I don't even get to watch them in the theatres.

Forget watching it in the theatres, 10 genre movies not based on existing properties seen last year would be a stretch for some people. But they easily would be able to name more than 10 movies based on existing IPs which they have seen.
 
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Bad analogy. Leaving aside the inherent sexism in saying that certain professions are gendered, there's actually nothing in the NARRATIVE of the movies which FORCES the characters to be male. They're practicing academics.

I got the career examples in my analogy by googling "10 most female-dominated professions".

I'm not trying to be sexist, I'm trying to be realistic.



The GBs were several scientist/academic types who got kicked out of university for goofing off. So they invented their own half-baked technology with wrenches & gears & electricals, and then went out and acted as exterminators. They did it by driving around in a customized hot-rod car, lugging heavy quipment on their backs up stairways, and basically doing close-quarters combat with ghosts using small arms.

How much more male-oriented could the GB job & characters get?



Once again, I'm not even saying I reject any female GBs. I wouldn't mind a couple of them being female.

I take issue with all four GBs being female, and that being the only selling point of the movie. It might totally work but I don't think its a great sign about the mindset that is producing this movie.



I think it's very easy to look back on GB and only see the outlandishness of it. But the crazy stuff worked because they made it very believable down at the nuts & bolts level.

Which one of these cast members is going to make a good Egon-type character? Or Ray? Who builds the proton packs & the containment unit? Who builds & wrenches on Ecto-1? Which one warns the others about the danger of crossing the streams? Which one describes the history of Gozer & Dana's apartment building, with a straight face, granting it any amount of seriousness & danger?

The details of the remake don't all need to match the old movie but the overall tone matters. This cast might be funny but it looks like they are piling on the absurdity and not caring about the rest of it. GB had an early-SNL kind of mojo but it was not an Adan Sandler type of show. The ghosts chewed the scenery, the proton packs chewed the scenery too, but the cast did not. I expect the new one to be different but whole GB concept needs at least some realism to work right.
 
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Re: Ghostbusters 3

Total Recall was a book, or short story actually I think. If two people want to make that a movie and call it Total Recall, that's one thing. It does tie back to the original story. Naming the new one Total Recall wasn't really an attempt to get fans of the original to see it.
Actually that was indeed the reason they made the movie. I haven't read the short story book, but during pre-production they said they are not remaking the Arnie film and this would be inspired by the book. In the book though they don't go to Mars (like in the 90s film), Mars and references to Mars are part of the plot. In the new movie they don't go to Mars nor there are any reference to Mars in the plot. But the rest of the plot was more inspired by the 90s film rather than the book.
 
Re: Ghostbusters 3

Actually that was indeed the reason they made the movie. I haven't read the short story book, but during pre-production they said they are not remaking the Arnie film and this would be inspired by the book. In the book though they don't go to Mars (like in the 90s film), Mars and references to Mars are part of the plot. In the new movie they don't go to Mars nor there are any reference to Mars in the plot. But the rest of the plot was more inspired by the 90s film rather than the book.

First line in the short story:

"HE AWOKE — and wanted Mars. The valleys, he thought."

It didn't have ANYTHING to do with a giant elevator connecting the UK and Australia...

the short story revolved around him trying to figure out if he had or hadn't gone to Mars, and discovered he had blown a government secret...

so while the 90's film was definitely adapted for the screen, it has all of the correct elements

The Earthbound Elevator version... We'll keep the character names, and the memory bit, but let's throw out everything else.

And I would go so far as to argue that had it not been called Total Recall, it would have been more successful, because there were no preconceived notions as to what should and shouldn't be in a film based on it's source material.

It's label was it's downfall
 
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