Fallout 4: Laser Musket (Photo Heavy)

Discussion in 'Replica Props' started by Aces, Aug 15, 2015.

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  1. Aces

    Aces New Member

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    Being extremely excited for Fallout 4, I decided to make Preston Garvey's laser musket from the game. Hopefully I will be done before November 10th. So far I have sourced some parts, designed some pieces, and started cutting a few. Here's the first set of images:
    20150711_201603.jpg
    Took apart an old hand crank drill for the straight bevel gears and handle.
    20150711_215548.jpg
    Mock up of the gear assembly. I will need to do some modifications to both the gears, and the handle.
    20150714_214100.jpg
    The innards of a hand crank flash light will be used for some of the lighting. For a consistent glow, I will need to keep the electronics and gears here mostly intact.
    20150717_211759.jpg
    Bought an old Ruger 10/22 stock off Ebay to build the laser musket around. I will need to modify it for the large gears to be able to spin freely, and for the shape to better resemble that of the in-game weapon.
    20150719_231317.jpg 20150719_231146.jpg
    Finished printing the schematic I made to size. This took a lot more analysis of gameplay and screenshots than I care to mention. And the stock for scale. Here you can see some of the modifications I need to make.
    20150803_201350.jpg 20150803_201518.jpg
    Sizing out some pieces using cardboard.
    20150812_125928.jpg
    Quick whiteboard diagram to work on a shopping list.
    20150807_231852.jpg
    And my friend and I built a small workbench for extra room when working on our props (he is making the AER12 prototype from F:NV). Not pictured is the finished shelf, and mounted vise.
    I'm planning on cutting out more pieces this weekend, and now that I've got my hands on some styrene, I can design and cut the gear case and trigger guard.
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. WA5TE

    WA5TE New Member

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    This is gonna be insane! Cant wait too see it finished, Im gonna have to build one myself.
     
  3. Coldsnakevenom

    Coldsnakevenom New Member

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    Looks great so far!!

    -Tom
     
  4. Aces

    Aces New Member

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    So after driving around for about an hour and a half today looking for a clear plastic cup to use for the tube on the laser musket, I found... absolutely nothing. So I decided I would try to make one out of some scrap acrylic I had. It's not perfect, but I might refine the shape later. The plan is to lightly spray the inside of the tube with red paint to catch the light from the LEDs and get a nice glow.
    20150817_153048.jpg 20150817_153744.jpg 20150817_200114.jpg 20150817_200131.jpg
    Here are the pieces that I cut out last week. The acrylic detail layer was scored and then refined with a dremel, and lots of filing.
    20150804_202227.jpg 20150804_204910.jpg 20150808_145421.jpg 20150812_130137.jpg
    And here is what I cut today, straight from the jig-saw. I'll refine them later, maybe tomorrow. The piece on the left is the middle layer of the back-plate pictured above.
    20150817_200649.jpg
    And here's another cardboard mock-up. once I'm done designing the piece, it will be cut from 1/8" styrene and bent with a heat gun. It will both hold the gears in place, and act as the foregrip for the laser musket.
    20150817_201046.jpg
     
  5. Vault111

    Vault111 New Member

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    I've been waiting to see a laser musket, and yours looks like it'll turn out great :D- I've dreamed of making one ever since I finished my AER-9 :). Do you have plans to possibly sell/release the blueprints at any time? Thanks!
     
  6. TheDiscarded87

    TheDiscarded87 New Member

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    Wow, just started buying parts for my own today!
    Mind comparing notes?

    That hand-crank light idea is very cool.

    I'm using an old jam jar for the... clear thing. Whatever you want to call it. The whole scale of the project is based around this jar.

    Does Preston have a unique stock on his musket? The reveal trailer showed the "sole survivor's" musket had a square stock made from a plank of wood.

    Nice start! I'll be watching with interest
     
  7. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Subscribed, the laser musket is the first Fallout weapon I want to build. I love the mechanical aspect of it.
    If you decide to release the schematic I would be happy to try to covert it into a 3D CAD file. (Got to finish my Pip-boy first)

    Have you considered cutting a glass bottle to get the tube? There are lots of guides on cutting beer bottles into drinking glasses, its the same concept.

    /Edit:
    A long time ago one of very first PC mods ever used these crackle lightning tubes. They are about an inch in diameter. They would work great to create the charged effect at the center of the glass tube. (Sorry for the tiny images)

    Thumb.jpg tesing.gif
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2015
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  8. TheConanRider

    TheConanRider New Member

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    Can't you just buy clear acrylic pipe? Also great work. If I get my 3d printer working again I am definitely going to try to make one too.
     
  9. Aces

    Aces New Member

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    Sorry for the lack of posting, been busy being back in University.

    @Vault111 As of right now, the schematics are still a WIP, and aren't even in vector format. Also I won't know how accurate they really are until November 10th, but I may finish them after, and possibly release them.

    @TheDiscarded87 Sure! there are some components I'm not sure where I can find, so comparing would be great. From every screen shot we have of Peston's LM, we can't see the stock. My guess is that he has a custom stock as well (considering every other most likely modable component is modded on his), but I like the look of the walnut. I'ts similar to what the Sole Survivor appears to be using here: Screenshot_127.png
    On a side note, that's the only shot I know of that shows the bottom. Enjoy!

    @zapwizard I've been following your Pip-boy work, seriously unbelievable. I may end up simply creating models and printing some components of the gun (large spinning "gears", need to be light weight, as well as symmetrical and with even weight distribution- something I can't make) with my school's printer, but having a full CAD file for the LM would be pretty awesome.
    I had considered cutting glass, and when I was looking there were plenty of vases which would have worked well, but I don't think I have the means to cut it. Hadn't really considered following any tutorials, but the option is still open. The acrylic was left over anyways, so not really any loss if I don't need it.
    Those crackle tubes would work awesome if I can find some, but then I would need to work around it to get the gears for the flashlight hidden in the laser rifle barrel, the only place they will (just) fit. Unless I work out a different system. maybe a spinning piece by the large "gears" could toggle a switch? I'd still love to have the slow fade in of the light that the flashlight provides. Any ideas?

    @TheConanRider I've looked, but not in the size I need, which is a rather unusual 3 5/8" diameter.
     
  10. Aces

    Aces New Member

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    Back to updating! So i finally got around to do some extra work on the LM after a bit of work adjusting the scale. The last circular pieces to hold everything together were cut out, and I can now glue, bond, and refine them:
    20150913_200554.jpg 20150913_200629.jpg
    One problem I have now is that the metal rod from the gears isn't quite long enough, and being 9/16" in diameter, it's not exactly a standard I can find a longer replacement for. I would cut off a piece from the other part that will be holding the crank and weld them together, but I don't have the tools for that. I'll have to come up with some solution.

    Next I designed the laser barrel pieces, and cut them out. My power tool accuracy could use some work, but that just means more time spent refining later. oh well. Tomorrow I'm going to cut the vent pieces to be angled in, and finish the offset for the styrene barrel end. I plan on having the left side removable to access the batteries, electronics, etc, and I'll be needing to set some magnets in to get that working. After I figure all that out, I'll glue it all together and start on the rounded edges:
    20150914_201429.jpg 20150914_211239.jpg 20150914_212117.jpg

    Also on the list is cutting out and bending the gear box/ metal guard running along the stock of the gun, working on the laser barrel grip, sanding down some pcb piping to be a hexagon (or maybe octagon? it's hard to tell from the screenshots) for the "barrell"/beam focuser holder since I cant find any hexagonal piping. Oh, and a lot more after that.
    I'm planning on spending more time on this as November gets closer, so if anyone feels like nagging me to post more frequent updates, that would really help me move along ;).

    Thanks for reading
     
  11. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Apparently those crackle tubes I used aren't very common anymore. I didn't find any good ones when I searched. (Hence why I used my old project images). But using the crank flashlight is awesome, it will make it that must more authentic.

    McMaster sells aluminum and brass Hex tubing, Onlinemetals.com sells hex solid stock.
     
  12. Aces

    Aces New Member

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    I'd be paying 4x the price in shipping alone going down that route though. After doing more digging, I could get an aluminum hex bar from a local supplier, but now comes the question of weight. to have it hanging, supporting itself out the end of the stock, I will need to shape it to fit the ruger barrel slot on the stock and have it set in 7", which would leave it right beside the last circular piece with just enough room to slip wires out from the laser rifle barrel. So I would need to shave it down to less than half of its original size over those 7 inches, and i'd be looking at about 1.6 lb, with only 31% of that weight supported by the stock. I haven't ever worked with aluminum before. Any word on how feasible it is to drill through a 7/8" aluminum rod? If I can drill it into the stock, and manage to file it down to fit in there, it could still work.

    It would be great to have it be metal, and my original thought was a copper tube before I noticed that it isn't a circle, but they aren't thick enough to allow for any kind of shaping. Maybe I will just take a wooden dowel or 1x1" length of lumber and sand it down to a hexagon. If I keep the beam focuser light, then it shouldn't have any problems supporting it.
     
  13. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Drilling into aluminum stock is easy, it is a soft metal. Just go slow and let the drill bit remove material. Aluminum shaving can combine together and jam the bit pretty easily.
    So I usually drill a bit, back off, clear it, then drill some more. If you go slow enough you don't need coolant. You can drill up to 4" or so with a hand drill, any deeper and you need a lathe to prevent jamming the drill bit.

    Aluminum is pretty darn light, you would be surprised, a solid rod may even be lighter than a copper tube. You could always shape the wood and then wrap it with aluminum or copper tape. Adam Savage has an awesome video showing how to use metal tape to apply metal over wood.
     
  14. Aces

    Aces New Member

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    Oh I completely forgot about copper tape! As long as I can weather it, that would work great. I mean, that or just paint it copper. I think I will go with a wood dowel though, since looking again, It definitely appears to be an octagon:
    LM focus barrel.jpg
    I need about 22.5", so it will take a while to sand it down, but i think its possible. Thanks for all the help though.

    Anyways back to updates. I finished the inset for the barrel end, and cut the vents, as well as the access piece on the left side of the laser rifle barrel. Looking at screen shots as well as builds of the laser rifle (primarily Harrison Krix's) I've decided on an angle that I believe is accurate:
    20150915_203352.jpg 20150916_212134.jpg 20150916_211750.jpg
    I also drew out some cuts I will need to make to let the grip sit in properly. These will likely be made with the Dremel:
    20150916_212212.jpg 20150916_212225.jpg
    I still need to sand the side pieces of the rifle barrel to accommodate the angled vents since they are no longer forming a right angle, and I think I will work on designing the net for the barrel end, and grip next. Hopefully I will have time tomorrow to start on this. I also need to decide what tool I have at my disposal will work best to cut the styrene, since there are lots of pieces that I will need from it.
     
  15. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

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    Guess what I started making. I'm doing a CAD file for the crank/ gear things. Ill post them for you when they're done if you want. Lol uploadfromtaptalk1442628764337.JPG

    Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
     
  16. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

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    sorry for the double post. I just had a great idea for the rifle. remember those sparking kids toy pistols from the 90s. Would be perfect for the gear flywheel and charging mechanism. rip one apart and add the mechanism into the crank. much better than the flashlight don't you think?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drn0MBHxibM

    also from watching the e3 gameplay you can see the larger gear wheels spin slower than the center one with teeth, you should be able to do this by having them mounted on a separate collar on the center shaft and make them friction driven. easiest way without using gears.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015
  17. Aces

    Aces New Member

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    @jellis359 looks great! a CAD file for the big "gears" would be awesome, maybe we can help each other out with the builds. I've never seen one of those toys before, but the effect is perfect! is the light just white though? maybe with the inside of the tube sprayed lightly red it would look good. Where might I get one of those?

    Yeah I had already tossed the idea of different gear ratios for the spinning speed out the window, but I hadn't considered a friction driven system. Could you describe in more detail what you meant? One idea I was planning on implementing was having the gears start spinning separately, but at the same speed once they got going (in the video you can see the closest to the crank starts spinning first). I was going to do this with catches on the gears and the rod (imagine the lid and cap of a child proof pill bottle, with a curved incline and drop to catch on the edge), where the gears wouldn't be attached to the rod, but it would catch on the rod as it spun, each gear having less catches the further they are from the crank, making them turn sequentially.

    One thing I don't think is possible appears to come with the laser barrel variant only. If you watch carefully in the leaked quakecon footage, the SS is using the rifle variant, which while being cranked up and before shooting has a spinning ring of lights at the far end of the tube (right before the laser barrel starts), an aspect that isn't present on the laser piston variant, which is in the official gameplay. besides having the lights fixed and a spinning cover, I don't think having constant contact on a spinning circuit is reliable, if even possible.

    On a side note, what was your plan for these rails here:
    Fallout4_Preston_rails.jpg
    I'm sure I've seen something like them before, but I'm not sure where. Bending pipe would work, but I'm sure you can buy something like them.
     
  18. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Those spark gun kits toys don't use electronics. They literally throw real sparks. They have a striker that hits a spinning friction wheel.

    If the LEDs actually need to spin you can use a slip-ring to transfer power. SparkFun and Adafruit both sell them. You can make them yourself from a copper or brass tube and brushing from a broken power tool. I am using a PCB slip ring in my Pip-Boy design using a circuit with spring loaded pogo pins.

    The other way you could simulate spinning LEDs is to run a chain of them and turn them on and off in a LED chaser pattern.
     
  19. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

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    I meant the spark gun as a substitute for the crackle tube.

    For the friction drive you place a slider on the main crank that has a free floating weight when the wheel is cranked centripidal force pulls this to the outer diameter where it can come into contact with a separate ring with a high friction on the other gears inside. By adjusting the weight on each slider you can have them contact at different times.
    Only resource for ready made spark guns these days is eBay or edmundscientific.

    Constant contact on a spinning piece can be made with 2 concentric non spinning circular metal contacts one positive one ground. Which contact identical concentric conductive pads on the rotating circuit. This way your lead in wires do not rotate.

    Ill post some sketches soon to better illustrate these concepts if you want.

    For the bars I was going to either use straws or pen tubes painted silver with shaved down pencaps as the ends. Do everything as cheap as you can. Remember this is a post apocalyptic game. People are putting this stuff together from whatever they can find so use a little bit of that for some creative license. Its a very lore friendly method of making things easier on yourself.

    Instead of the kit just go buy some LEDs some 10 k ohm resistors and an old cd. even a small timing ic and you can save money and make something super similar.

    Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
  20. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

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    uploadfromtaptalk1442723537990.JPG

    Here's a 2 minute sketch of the above. BTW do you have access to a 3d printer?
    If not I'd use resin hardened porous foam for the gears to save movey.


    Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
     
  21. Aces

    Aces New Member

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    Saving money on the project isn't really my top priority. I've already spent a decent amount on the LM, and I'd rather have an accurate implementation, even if it is a bit more expensive. I've been looking at kitchen cabinet openers which have a similar shape, but the longest is 4.31", which isn't quite long enough. The diameter is also about 1/16" too large. I might end up getting some copper piping and bending it.

    I'll have to start looking into researching all of the electronics I need pretty soon. I won't be able to close up the rifle barrel until I know I can fit everything in there. Are resisters always required with LEDs?
    jellis359 I don't own a 3d printer, but I have access to one at my university. Some pieces I will likely need to print, since they are too intricate to make from MDF or styrene. I may also have access to Solidworks, but I haven't looked into it yet.

    On a side note, I got my barrel sanded into an octagon. It actually went faster than I thought:
    20150919_225859.jpg 20150920_131952.jpg
    There's still some refinement to do, but for now I'm sick of sanding, so I'll get to that later.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
  22. Skorp

    Skorp New Member

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    Looking great. How did you go about getting the octagonal barrel from a dowel? Belt sander?
     
  23. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

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    laser musket.PNG meshed.PNG View attachment laser musket gear.zip laser musket gear.JPG



    heres the file for the center crown gear and some images. im posting multiple file types.
    its a compressed folder dont know if itll work
    Capture.PNG 1.PNG


    block wheel.PNG
    im attaching my take on the block wheel design you see on either end of the strange crown gears. its two files, one wheel the other the caps for the wheel.

    you should be able to 3d print all of these or make adjustments to them easily
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015
  24. Aces

    Aces New Member

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    @jellis359 Those look awesome! thank you very much for the upload. I will likely end up modifying the design to fit my 9/16" rod and the dimensions of my LM. You've just given me a reason to learn how to use autoCad though :D.

    @Skorp Oh I wish. I'f I had a bent sander it would have taken less than half as much time. I used rough files and a hand-held power sander. It was about 1mm of wood at the peak on each side so not a whole lot of material.
     
  25. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

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    Go for solidworks its great.

    Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
     
  26. Aces

    Aces New Member

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    I would simply for being able to open your files (I can't seem to import them into autoCad), but I don't have the funds at the moment to spend on solidworks, and autoCad has a 30 day free trial. Once I figure out the basics though, It shouldn't be a problem.

    By the way, were you planning on making the scope? if so, what is your plan for it? magnification, on not? Unfortunately we haven't seen it in use in any gameplay as of yet, So some assumptions will have to be made on how the reticle looks.
     
  27. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

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    Ill adapt the file types for you should only take a couple minutes.
    whats the diameter of the circular pieces you already made?
    9/16 rod correct? How were you planning on attaching the circular parts to the rod? Download cura for the ultimaker and other 3d printers you will because to view .stl files on it. I'm gonna try to make these parts as finished as possible for you.

    Make me a sketch of what you want and ill do it up. Ill need as full dimensions as possible for what you already have. Pm me if you'd like.

    Ill be doing another few files for the scope and mounting rails. No magnification. I'm planning on essentially making it a case/ cover to house a cheap airgun red dot sight.
    first thing first is adding the detail and functional geometry to what is already modeled.
    Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk

    i changed the file type to something that should work with autocad. i also included the .stl files for 3d printing. these parts have and extra .25inch ring protruding from the center bore to attach your preferred method of making them move.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015
  28. Aces

    Aces New Member

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    I see we had a similar idea for the scope. I was planning on either using an airsoft red dot with the scope built around, or make my own. If it was all housed in a length of PCB with an angled cut out, then an angled acrylic sheet could be used to catch the light from a red LED in the mount and project it onto a drawn reticle, then ideally the angled acrylic could be replaced and the reticle redrawn to match that of the in game scope once we see what it looks like.

    I was thinking the side * as a switch (or dimmer switch?), a small battering in the mount, and a vertical facing led to hit the angled acrylic in the middle of the PCB. Then of course some styrene modeled around it. 3d printing would make the shape easier to create for sure, but maybe harder to fit everything in if you went with an airsoft red dot.
     
  29. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

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    these give you any ideas? they do me. yay for 3d printing!

    ~https://grabcad.com/library?page=1&per_page=20&query=planetary+gearbox
     
  30. Aces

    Aces New Member

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    I'm not sure I'm seeing what you are. What was your idea for the planetary gear box?
     
  31. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

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  32. Aces

    Aces New Member

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    Wow that is almost exactly what we are trying to achieve. So if I understand this correctly, we purposefully spin the inner piece to catch with the outer, attached to our "gears" and when the inner piece suddenly stops spinning (when we stop spinning the rod) the outer piece rolls off the spring catches and is allowed to spin off it's momentum. The only downside I see is it wouldnt allow for different spin up times, and the problem of finding one in the right size.

    By the way had you had the time to modify the "gear" CAD file?
     
  33. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

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    solution
    solution.png
     
  34. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I looked at the gameplay video. There are three rotors. From what I can see the smaller diameter middle rotor spins whenever the player cranks the handle. The two larger outside rotors seem to spin in the opposite direction and then spin-down once the player stops cranking. Is this the effect your trying to achieve, or do you just want them all going in the same direction, with only the spin-down effect?

    You can transfer power in one direction with a Freewheel (Here is a CAD example) They make off-the-shelf freewheels for bikes. Otherwise the mechanism could be 3D printed.
    If you want the secondary rotors to spin in the opposite direction you could use a planetary gear, which I saw you mentioned earlier.

    I found these gear simulators very helpful when doing the Pip-Boy:
    Planetary gears: http://www.thecatalystis.com/gears/
    Regular gears, with SVG export: http://geargenerator.com/
     
  35. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

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    The bearing in my image is actually a one way clutch bearing (trapped roller clutch variant) near exactly what you have shown only much more compact. this is the bearing in my model in the last post. what is shown is the bearing pressed into the small rotor in the center. the slot and pin collars are to help delay the start of rotation because this is what I can see in the slowed down video. you are correct about my intention to use planetary gears for the outer rotors. they are the most compact affordable ready made gear set that I can find to accomplish the task.

    thank you for the links however I'm already using them :)

    Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
  36. Aces

    Aces New Member

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    My plan was to have them spin up at different times (one after another moving down the length of the LM), have them all spin in the same direction, and then allow them to "spin off". I hadn't actually considered that the tooth gear in the middle doesn't spin off. In fact, does it even spin up after the first? I've watched the gameplay many time at different speeds, and I'm not sure they spin in different directions. With the low frame rate of the video at .5 or .25 speed, it could look like it is spinning the other way, since with the smaller diameter and less screen space it's rotation isn't as obvious.
    Even if they do spin in different directions, I feel implementing this could be too costly, complicated, and fragile-since it has to be implemented in such a small space, with a relatively small amount of the system shown to match the LM in game- to be feasible. Until I'm convinced these aren't concerns, I'd rather keep it simple.
     
  37. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

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    Were you on board with the design I came up with its a combination of both of ours. If so ill give you a parts list, .stl file for the free cura software and fully dimensioned drawings

    Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
     
  38. Aces

    Aces New Member

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    The design using the trapped roller clutch? or the one you drew out and showed me earlier? Honestly I think either would work for the spin up time, so sure if you wouldn't mind sending it.

    Now if we want to be truly accurate, there is a lot more at play now that I've gone through the gameplay frame by frame. The outer cap gears are prone to changing direction, and will end in different directions depending on if the crank was spun once, or twice on a reload. Here's what I saw:
    [TABLE="class: grid, width: 500, align: left"]
    [TR]
    [TD]angle(crank)[/TD]
    [TD]gear 1 (capped)[/TD]
    [TD]gear 2 (toothed)[/TD]
    [TD]gear 3 (capped)[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]0[/TD]
    [TD]stationary[/TD]
    [TD]counter-clockwise[/TD]
    [TD]stationary[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]45[/TD]
    [TD]clockwise[/TD]
    [TD]counter-clockwise[/TD]
    [TD]counter-clockwise[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]90[/TD]
    [TD]clockwise[/TD]
    [TD]counter-clockwise[/TD]
    [TD]slowing[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]135[/TD]
    [TD]slowing[/TD]
    [TD]counter-clockwise[/TD]
    [TD]clockwise[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]180[/TD]
    [TD]stationary[/TD]
    [TD]counter-clockwise[/TD]
    [TD]clockwise[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]225[/TD]
    [TD]stationary[/TD]
    [TD]counter-clockwise[/TD]
    [TD]clockwise[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]270[/TD]
    [TD]counter-clockwise[/TD]
    [TD]counter-clockwise[/TD]
    [TD]clockwise[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]315[/TD]
    [TD]counter-clockwise[/TD]
    [TD]counter-clockwise[/TD]
    [TD]clockwise[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]360[/TD]
    [TD]counter-clockwise[/TD]
    [TD]counter-clockwise[/TD]
    [TD]clockwise[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]after 1[/TD]
    [TD]counter-clockwise[/TD]
    [TD]slowing[/TD]
    [TD]clockwise[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]after 2[/TD]
    [TD]slowing[/TD]
    [TD]stationary[/TD]
    [TD]clockwise[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]after 3[/TD]
    [TD]clockwise[/TD]
    [TD]stationary[/TD]
    [TD]clockwise[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]after 4[/TD]
    [TD]stationary[/TD]
    [TD]stationary[/TD]
    [TD]clockwise[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]after 5[/TD]
    [TD]stationary[/TD]
    [TD]stationary[/TD]
    [TD]stationary[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    The leftmost column is the angle of the hand crank for a 1 spin reload, while the other three represent the direction of each gear in the 45 degree interval after that listed on the right. So the first slot (0) says what was happening between 0 and 45 degrees. The slots labeled "after x" together make up the spin off time.
    This is as accurate an analysis I can do with the footage we have.

    Honestly, I think I'm good with them all just spinning counter clockwise at the same speed, starting up in the order 213, but watching it again I now think planetary gear kits for the capped gears would really make the LM look amazing, even if they all started at the same time. If I can print some or get them for a reasonable price, I'm on board.

    What are the chances that you could design the planetary gears (or outer shell) into the capped gears? Alternatively we could leave the space to put one in, and cover up the sides (and keep everything inside) with styrene on each side.
     
  39. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

    Trophy Points:
    92
    ill start working on it tomorrow night for ya/ we will still need the clutches in the design however for the spin off. I will have to mount the planetary on a separate collar. you will not have a single drive shaft then and 9/16 is out the window for simplicity. it will undoubtedly become at least 4 separate 1/8 or 1/4 inch shafts. this also means having connections between the shafts and planetary gearsets which I will most likely use set screw collars for. this will add at a minimum of 12 parts to the assembly not counting moving pieces such as the gears. this will take me some time to model and simulate.i believe the Tamiya planetary gear kits are our best bet. for straight cw or ccw motion youi need 2 planetarys per. I think I can crank it out in a week. is that okay?
    did you download cura yet? it may not allow you to edit the parts but it will allow you to get a good visual of the 3d representation. seriously look into whether your university has solidworks available if not I may be able to get you an access pass or functional version. your imput after viewing this would greatly speed up the process.
    ~
     

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  40. zapwizard

    zapwizard Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    1,341
    I think the frame rate causes a optical illusion that the gears change direction during cranking. The 2nd crank makes them go faster, and the frame rate makes them look like they start moving the other direction. But I do agree that the first (closest to the crank) and the third (Furthest) do engage at different times, but seem to spin at the same speed. Its all really hard to tell from the video. Autodesk 123D can also be used as a STEP cad file viewer. It is also a free solid moder, which I have seen quite a few project made in.
    The catch with planetary gears is they actually slow down the outer rotor, and in the video the outside gears spin faster then the inside gear. We may be making this too complicated.
     
  41. Aces

    Aces New Member

    Trophy Points:
    18
    @ jellis359
    I still don't think that having both the bearings and the planetary gears would fit in the space we have to work with. The problem I have it that the 9/16" rod is required, since that is the inner diameter of my driving gears that I pulled from the hand drill. I'd say our best bet would either be
    1. the diagram I sent you with the rod catches
    2. the modified version you replied with
    3. if we want to have them go in the same direction and can deal with the slowing turning due to the gear rations, this is what I mentioned earlier:
    20150925_082654.jpg
    This was just a quick sketch, and of course the teeth would need to line up, but if we can have the catches on the inside of the sun gear, and build the rest of the capped "gear" around the outside, it could produce esentially everything we need. Delayed start, clockwise rotation, and a slight spin off with the rod catches.
    With either herringbone gears or a piece to hold the planets in place, which would be attached to the stock, we could hold everything in place.

    If that's not feasible, I think I will go with all counter clockwise rotation, and rod catches.

    In either case, could you send me the modified capped gear when you are done, with just a 9/16" center hole? I don't get access to solidworks through my university unless I can prove that I'm taking a course that requires it, so that it off the table unfortunately.
     
  42. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

    Trophy Points:
    92
    I'm starting to assemble the planetary gears they are very small roughly the size of a small stack of gold dollars or quarters. I'm gonna start experimenting with the design of these cheap tamiya's tonight. Simultaneously ill resize my original bearing model for your rod. I seriously believe you should consider a smaller diameter and possibly just use a coupler to attach it to your 9/16 for the cranks shaft



    uploadfromtaptalk1443204986576.JPG uploadfromtaptalk1443204999080.JPG

    Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
     
  43. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

    Trophy Points:
    92
    I think we would still need the one way bearing for the spin off. the planetary is going to reverse the direction of the spin. I should be able to replace the slotted collar for the shaft with the tamiya planetary for the delay. I'm slowly mulling things over.

    Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
     
  44. Aces

    Aces New Member

    Trophy Points:
    18
    I know that the planetary changes the direction. That's what my drawing it showing, with the capped gears essentially being a planetary gear kit with the caps built on top. This would allow the two capped gears to rotate clockwise, while the rod and centre tooth gear are rotating counter-clockwise. Let me know when you get everything aassembled.
    I definitely could get a rod of a smaller diameter, I'm just trying to avoid it if I can. The size is perfect for how it looks through the tube capacitor, and at the driving gear/ crank. I also don't have the tools to cut it down and attach it to a smaller diameter, and using a smaller diameter through the centre of my drive gears could have them rotating unevenly if it isn't epoxyed in at the exact middle.
     
    jellis359 likes this.
  45. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

    Trophy Points:
    92
    I'm gonna start making the planetary rotors today along with the bearing from the original plan.

    Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015
  46. Aces

    Aces New Member

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    18
    Oh you were planning on making the bearings? Ok well please let me know if it all works and send me a parts list if you get it going. I thought you plan was to buy the bearings and planetary kits, which sounded kind of expensive since we would need two of each. I do agree though that making the capped gears into a planetary system probably wouldn't work. The drawing I gave is to scale- the parts would be very thin and fragile. I think having them attached to the sides of the capped gears would be the way to go.
     
  47. Aces

    Aces New Member

    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ok back to updates. Last night I learned enough AutoCAD to get started on my take of the capped gear. I'm still trying to figure out how to add a 45 degree bezel around the cylinder, but if I can't it can always be sanded down after:
    Screenshot_134.png Screenshot_135.png
    These have my original idea of rod/gear catches you can see in the middle. This can be changed if the bearing/planetary kit solution ends up working. The 12 caps will be printed separately, and the centre cylinder has cut outs to fit all the caps in. I'm still not sure if I should either hollow out, or honey comb the inside of the cylinder. If anyone with experience 3d printing wants to chime in, that would be wonderful.

    On a side note, I'm mostly finished designing the barrel cap:
    20150920_175233.jpg
    The design has been slightly changed since this photo (laser hole moved up to match barrel centre, not cap centre, and angled pieces added to the design). These two pieces will also need to accommodate the octagonal beam focuser holder barrel thing.

    I've also transferred the gear holder/front grip design to styrene:
    20150927_130807.jpg
    Once cut out, this will be bent to match the cardboard shape shown in the picture. I will likely design the laser barrel grip and cut that out first, since jumping right into such a big piece having never cut styrene before isn't a great idea. If I have the time, I plan on designing and cutting the laser barrel grip out later today.
     
  48. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

    Trophy Points:
    92
    closeupt.PNG
    that was a lot of modeling lol. but its all there.from your slotted collar to the bearing to the planetary gear system. the s are ready when your are. the caps and blocks will go on separately with adhesive

    I added the stl file for 3d printing this . it is in the correct rod bore diameter. you will also need to buy 2 of these for the spinoff.http://www.mcmaster.com/#2489k7/=z55fae


    I'm going to prototype this for you first to make sure it works.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 28, 2015
  49. Aces

    Aces New Member

    Trophy Points:
    18
    :eek My lord you actually did it. Spin up, planetary reverse direction, and room for the spin off bearing. I didn't think it would be possible, and I'm sorry for not believing in you. What are the dimensions on that? I'm guessing the bearing goes in between the slotted collar and sun gear? Please let me know how the prototype goes. If I wasn't excited before, I definitely am now. Kudos man, great work.
     
  50. jellis359

    jellis359 Jr Member

    Trophy Points:
    92
    I'm just changing a few things and adding some pieces to make assembly simpler for when I get the first prototype printed. I should finish this tomorrow then have it printed shortly after. I'm shooting for finishing testing the first model Sunday.
     

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