Etsy Enforcing Orange Tip Regulation

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Veritech

New Member
Some of our prop weapons have been deactivated from Etsy for violating site policy and apparently, "looking too real".

There argument is that they violate federal and international laws.
As a result, they insist we place orange tips on the barrels before we re-list them.

What's next? Orange tips on prop swords and knives?!

Are there any other prop makers experiencing this hassle?
 

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ARKM

Sr Member
Sorry to hear it. Maybe orange tape, like painter's masking tape (as it does not leave tape residue on the part after removal) on the barrel tip would suffice.
 

gunnerk19

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Personally, I think it's becoming like egay, and they are carrying it a bit too far anyway. They require all realistic replica guns to have a blaze orange tip, but yet the Federal government only requires them on replicas of firearms manufactured after 1898. So you can't (well, you can) get a replica 1873 Colt revolver or replica Winchester rifle from ebay without one, and you cannot sell one without the marking on the barrel. I sold a pair of 1903 Springfield cap guns a few months ago and ebay CALLED ME and said they were going to pull my listing because the guns didn't have orange tips. I told them to look at the photos in the listing, the cap guns were only 8 inches long (I had a ruler next to the rifles in the pics) ! They apologized and hung up.
 
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Psicorp7

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Just grab some orange foam earplugs and stuff them in the barrel. Works for the picture and quickly removed by the buyer!
 

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fantomas

New Member
This is one of the most ridiculous rules/laws in the world. There is ZERO purpose for orange tips.

Here's the text of the law:
15 U.S.C. § 5001 : US Code - Section 5001: Penalties for entering into commerce of imitation firearms

(a) Acts prohibited
It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, enter into
commerce, ship, transport, or receive any toy, look-alike, or
imitation firearm unless such firearm contains, or has affixed to
it, a marking approved by the Secretary of Commerce, as provided in
subsection (b) of this section.
(b) Distinctive marking or device; exception; waiver; adjustments
and changes
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2) or (3), each toy, look-
alike, or imitation firearm shall have as an integral part,
permanently affixed, a blaze orange plug inserted in the barrel of
such toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm. Such plug shall be
recessed no more than 6 millimeters from the muzzle end of the
barrel of such firearm.
(2) The Secretary of Commerce may provide for an alternate
marking or device for any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm not
capable of being marked as provided in paragraph (1) and may waive
the requirement of any such marking or device for any toy, look-
alike, or imitation firearm that will only be used in the
theatrical, movie or television industry.
(3) The Secretary is authorized to make adjustments and changes
in the marking system provided for by this section, after
consulting with interested persons.
(c) "Look-alike firearm" defined
For purposes of this section, the term "look-alike firearm" means
any imitation of any original firearm which was manufactured,
designed, and produced since 1898, including and limited to toy
guns, water guns, replica nonguns, and air-soft guns firing
nonmetallic projectiles. Such term does not include any look-alike,
nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior
to 1898, or traditional B-B, paint-ball, or pellet-firing air guns
that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.
(d) Study and report
The Director of the Bureau of Justice Statistics is authorized
and directed to conduct a study of the criminal misuse of toy, look-
alike and imitation firearms, including studying police reports of
such incidences and shall report on such incidences relative to
marked and unmarked firearms.
(c) (!1) Technical evaluation of marking systems

The Director of (!2) National Institute of Justice is authorized
and directed to conduct a technical evaluation of the marking
systems provided for in subsection (b) of this section to determine
their effectiveness in police combat situations. The Director shall
begin the study within 3 months after November 5, 1988, and such
study shall be completed within 9 months after November 5, 1988.

(f) Effective date
This section shall become effective on the date 6 months after
November 5, 1988, and shall apply to toy, look-alike, and imitation
firearms manufactured or entered into commerce after November 5,
1988.
(g) Preemption of State or local laws or ordinances; exceptions
The provisions of this section shall supersede any provision of
State or local laws or ordinances which provide for markings or
identification inconsistent with provisions of this section
provided that no State shall -
(i) prohibit the sale or manufacture of any look-alike,
nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed
prior to 1898, or
(ii) prohibit the sale (other than prohibiting the sale to
minors) of traditional B-B, paint ball, or pellet-firing air guns
that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.

And again, nothing stops anyone from removing the tips on fake guns, and nothing stops anyone from painting orange tips on real guns.
 

Badsprout

Active Member
Interesting. I'm based in the UK and yesterday I found four of my pieces - painted up Nerfs and toy Space Guns - had been made inactive. There was no notification from Etsy as to why, so I re-activated them. I assumed it was just a glitch; but you never know.
 

Veritech

New Member
Thank you all for your input. This is EXACTLY why I am a proud member of this forum. :)

I agree gunnerk19, These, "regulations" are getting wayyy out of hand. It's not like we're marketing our props to children.

15 U.S.C. § 5001 : US Code - Section 5001: Penalties for entering into commerce of imitation firearms
fantomas, These are the exact codes I came across during my research. Funny how it does not apply to replica weapons or movie props marketed towards collectors.

(1) and may waive
the requirement of any such marking or device for any toy, look-
alike, or imitation firearm that will only be used in the
theatrical, movie or television industry.
Badsprout I've seen your work brother and you've got some amazing weathering skills. I'm sorry to see that you also got nabbed in the crackdown.
I've spoken with other fabricators on that site and they have also confirmed my suspicions of a site-wide sweep about a week or so ago.

In short, I don't care to break any federal laws but I do believe that WE as a community of artisans have every right to sell our goods just like everyone else.

I guess this is just going to be an ongoing battle with ignorant bureaucracy... :( Like it or not, this is something that affects us all.
 
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Veritech

New Member
Are they built from the ground up or are they modified airsoft guns?

They're a combination of both... I like to take existing forms and chop'em down and re-arrange them with a variety of add-ons. That way, I've created something entirely different, design wise.

Although, I have to admit that a majority of my commissions involve scratch building.
 

Badsprout

Active Member
Thank you all for your input. This is EXACTLY why I am a proud member of this forum. :)

I agree gunnerk19, These, "regulations" are getting wayyy out of hand. It's not like we're marketing our props to children.

15 U.S.C. § 5001 : US Code - Section 5001: Penalties for entering into commerce of imitation firearms
@fantomas, These are the exact codes I came across during my research. Funny how it does not apply to replica weapons or movie props marketed towards collectors.

(1) and may waive
the requirement of any such marking or device for any toy, look-
alike, or imitation firearm that will only be used in the
theatrical, movie or television industry.
@Badsprout I've seen your work brother and you've got some amazing weathering skills. I'm sorry to see that you also got nabbed in the crackdown.
I've spoken with other fabricators on that site and they have also confirmed my suspicions of a site-wide sweep about a week or so ago.

In short, I don't care to break any federal laws but I do believe that WE as a community of artisans have every right to sell our goods just like everyone else.

I guess this is just going to be an ongoing battle with ignorant bureaucracy... :( Like it or not, this is something that affects us all.

Thanks for the compliment, Veritech. I got a mail from Etsy today; but they were deactivated yesterday! Time difference, I suppose.
 

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VelaNoon

Active Member
I read about this on a different forum, and some of the members said that if a cosplayer goes and gets shot because the police thinks he is waving a real gun around, you can get sued by the victim's family for providing him with a lifelike gun replica. And since Etsy is an international website, they have to comply with gun laws from all kinds of countries. Here in Norway you have to have an orange tip on any fake shooting weapons you bring out in public or you could get in serious trouble. It is only natural for Etsy to enforce this rule on everyone who wants to sell replica weapons through their website instead of treating every sale case by case, looking at which country the weapon is shipped to and what their gun law is.

I don't like this new rule, but I understand and accept their reasoning for enforcing it. I would reccomend that those who sell replica weapons through Etsy (or any online retailer in general) stock up on cheap orange ear plugs to stuff into the barrel before shipping. Better safe than sorry.

Let's just hope that they don't decide that the orange tips should be a permanent installment.
 

Veritech

New Member
I read about this on a different forum, and some of the members said that if a cosplayer goes and gets shot because the police thinks he is waving a real gun around, you can get sued by the victim's family for providing him with a lifelike gun replica. And since Etsy is an international website, they have to comply with gun laws from all kinds of countries. Here in Norway you have to have an orange tip on any fake shooting weapons you bring out in public or you could get in serious trouble. It is only natural for Etsy to enforce this rule on everyone who wants to sell replica weapons through their website instead of treating every sale case by case, looking at which country the weapon is shipped to and what their gun law is.

I don't like this new rule, but I understand and accept their reasoning for enforcing it. I would reccomend that those who sell replica weapons through Etsy (or any online retailer in general) stock up on cheap orange ear plugs to stuff into the barrel before shipping. Better safe than sorry.

Let's just hope that they don't decide that the orange tips should be a permanent installment.

Agreed... I would feel horrible if someone was shot using one of my props. I guess I never took that into consideration.

It also doesn't help when known criminals are disguising their weapons as Nerf guns either.

Still, I am a firm supporter of responsible gun ownership... and all of these politically fueled witch hunts are getting way out of hand.

Just my two cents.

- - - Updated - - -

What about a photoshopped orange barrel. See no evil, hear no evil. ;)
I made a removable red stopper for my jelly gun.

This jelly gun? squirt-fun-that-shoots-jelly[1].jpg
 

Daniel Nelms

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Agreed... I would feel horrible if someone was shot using one of my props. I guess I never took that into consideration.

It also doesn't help when known criminals are disguising their weapons as Nerf guns either.

Still, I am a firm supporter of responsible gun ownership... and all of these politically fueled witch hunts are getting way out of hand.

Just my two cents.

- - - Updated - - -



This jelly gun? View attachment 426825


Nope this one: http://www.therpf.com/f75/despicable-me-2-jelly-gun-resin-kit-227742/
 

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13doctorwho

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
This started when I was a kid in the 80's. There was actually a case that got a lot of coverage of a police officer that killed a kid. He was responding to a call and the kid had a realistic toy gun. The officer didn't realize it was a toy and killed him. I love props and realism, but there is a good legitimate reason for this law. Even if its a Sci-Fi gun it could look real in the dark. That is why so many toy guns now come in silly neon colors. Better safe than DEAD.
 

Veritech

New Member

Ha-ha! I kind of figured that but I wasn't too sure. :)

- - - Updated - - -

This started when I was a kid in the 80's. There was actually a case that got a lot of coverage of a police officer that killed a kid. He was responding to a call and the kid had a realistic toy gun. The officer didn't realize it was a toy and killed him. I love props and realism, but there is a good legitimate reason for this law. Even if its a Sci-Fi gun it could look real in the dark. That is why so many toy guns now come in silly neon colors. Better safe than DEAD.

I think I remember that news report. It's very sad that children are still being killed over toy guns.
 

NormanF

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
You can either comply with the law or make it so the law does not apply: sell kits. The follow up question to that would be how much do you have to take it apart to classify as a kit?
 

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