EFX DARTH VADER LEGEND VS LIMITED EDITION DETAILS?

[jhfagan]

Ok everyone...I need to settle something.
Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I can't find any other posts on it.
If anyone has real details/info/pictures, please share.
But, after having acquired my Limited Edition eFX Darth Vader, I've had lots of time to really get acquainted with it, and it's details, and look, etc.
I've been aware of the Legend Edition's obvious differences in the hand brushed paint job, and a few painted on weathering details like the C scar, and the few painted on nicks around it, and the actual physical "dent" on the right slope on the mouth cowling.
But I have been pouring over as many online videos, and hi-res up close pics of the Legend Edition as I can, and I CAN NOT find anything else that physically separates the two, so my assumption is that the casting, with the exception of the "dent" on the cowling, is identical between them....eFX did not physically "clean up" anything else on the Limited Edition.
All the surface area details, asymmetry, proportions, etc, are the same.
Can anyone confirm this, or show me what DID eFX clean up more on the Limited?

Thanks!

 

[Synz314]

There is no difference at all aside from the paintjob.

 

[jhfagan]

Is it also correct or no, that eFX's master casting from the Rick Baker moulds were left unaltered in the production of the Legend/Limited pieces?

 

[lethyry]

heres a nice shot of the face (not my photo) of the legend, both versions are so heavily cleaned up compared to an SL or DJ or the other couple baker mold pulls out there,There really is no difference between the two besides the dent and the paint job.

 

[jhfagan]

heres a nice shot of the face (not my photo) of the legend, both versions are so heavily cleaned up compared to an SL or DJ or the other couple baker mold pulls out there, I do think the only real difference is the paint job and the little dent on the mouth wall.

I hear about them being "cleaned up", but I am trying to find out "WHAT" exactly did they clean up on them? : )

I guess I am not familiar enough with these other versions out there you're talking about...and how did these people get access to the same Rick Baker molds if they weren't authorized or licensed manufacturers?

 

[lethyry]

I hear about them being "cleaned up", but I am trying to find out "WHAT" exactly did they clean up on them? : )

the efx dome is a big one, the true ANH dome had a lot of warts and dings and stuff on it not to mention the one side of the domes flare out, the efx cleaned the dome up and made it I guess you could say less of an eye sore. face mask is in a similar spot, where some of the dings and warts have been removed. you could try to find pictures of the SL or the DJ, i dont think theres much on the SL due to the restrictions on it but there should be some pictures of the DJ out there that show some of the major differences.

I guess I am not familiar enough with these other versions out there you're talking about...and how did these people get access to the same Rick Baker molds if they weren't authorized or licensed manufacturers?

most of these castings werent made by the people selling them, castings were made out of the mold and sold, whether that was through ebay or other sorts, heres a tree to give you a better idea,

 

[ggriffaw]

You may want to look through these threads.

Pictures of Mike Warren ANH helmet
How was Vader's helmet modified from ANH to ESB to ROTJ

 

[jhfagan]

the efx dome is a big one, the true ANH dome had a lot of warts and dings and stuff on it not to mention the one side of the domes flare out, the efx cleaned the dome up and made it I guess you could say less of an eye sore. face mask is in a similar spot, where some of the dings and warts have been removed. you could try to find pictures of the SL or the DJ, i dont think theres much on the SL due to the restrictions on it but there should be some pictures of the DJ out there that show some of the major differences.

most of these castings werent made by the people selling them, castings were made out of the mold and sold, whether that was through ebay or other sorts, heres a tree to give you a better idea,

I'm opening a can of worms here I'm sure, but what "restrictions" on the SL?

 

[lethyry]

I'm opening a can of worms here I'm sure, but what "restrictions" on the SL?

similar to the TM no upclose/detailed pictures of it posted online, from the tm agreement, to help keep the details in them special so they can't be replicated/added to other castings

 

[jhfagan]

similar to the TM no upclose/detailed pictures of it posted online, from the tm agreement, to help keep the details in them special so they can't be replicated/added to other castings

brother.....
I can see if the Official Licensees would have some sort of clause of that nature, but fan made stuff?

 

[lethyry]

brother.....
I can see if the Official Licensees would have some sort of clause of that nature, but fan made stuff?

its a very divided rule, some agree with it, some dont, I can see why the rule was put in place. the TM comes off of a production made ESB helmet, limited run and each helmet was expensive, the details of it are what makes it so special and coveted, and having those details plastered all over the internet where somebody can just add in those details to their own and try to sell them for more isn't something any TM owner would probably like.

 

[jhfagan]

the efx dome is a big one, the true ANH dome had a lot of warts and dings and stuff on it not to mention the one side of the domes flare out, the efx cleaned the dome up and made it I guess you could say less of an eye sore. face mask is in a similar spot, where some of the dings and warts have been removed. you could try to find pictures of the SL or the DJ, i dont think theres much on the SL due to the restrictions on it but there should be some pictures of the DJ out there that show some of the major differences.

most of these castings werent made by the people selling them, castings were made out of the mold and sold, whether that was through ebay or other sorts, heres a tree to give you a better idea,

I totally don't get this tree in places...lol
The Rick Baker is directly behind the Don Post ANH helmet?!!?!? The crappy little party helmet one?
And what are the "Mount Tour" variables, the DP DLX ( Don Post Deluxe) is showing derived from?
Help me out here on the UK mold as well?
So Brian Muir sculpted it, then gave it to who to cast, then make a helmet for the film?

 

[lethyry]

I totally don't get this tree in places...lol
The Rick Baker is directly behind the Don Post ANH helmet?!!?!? The crappy little party helmet one?
And what are the "Mount Tour" variables, the DP DLX ( Don Post Deluxe) is showing derived from?
Help me out here on the UK mold as well?
So Brian Muir sculpted it, then gave it to who to cast, then make a helmet for the film?

rick baker mold was made after movie, helmet was repainted and was molded to make tour helmets, which is why there is an arrow going towards the don post square, no not the viynl helmets he made lol. the don post deluxe helmet is made off of a tour helmet (esb/rotj era), original helmet is in the rancho obi wan collection , there is a famous picture of a bunch of tour helmets on a table, all having the long mount on them, there are also some with the step mount, one just went up for auction in propstore, has the same mounting system production helmets used in ESB/ROTJ. UK mold is the mold that made the production ESB and ROTJ helmets, molded off of the anh helmet.
brian muir sculpted it, if i remember correctly he sculpted the face, had a plaster cast made, sharpened it up and it was remolded for fibreglass casting which was then used when sculpting the dome for it

 

[dcarty]

I totally don't get this tree in places...lol
The Rick Baker is directly behind the Don Post ANH helmet?!!?!? The crappy little party helmet one?
And what are the "Mount Tour" variables, the DP DLX ( Don Post Deluxe) is showing derived from?
Help me out here on the UK mold as well?
So Brian Muir sculpted it, then gave it to who to cast, then make a helmet for the film?

That chart does take a bit of knowledge to decipher. The chart is all post-production of ANH. Brian Muir worked at Elstree Studios for Lucasfilm and his sculpts were molded by a company that was subcontracted to make the copies for production (if I recall correctly what Mr Muir says in his book) -- none of this is covered in the chart.

Fan castings of the Darth Vader helmet that claim lineage to a film used helmet generally derive from one of three sources: the Rick Baker mold (most recent source for fans), the "UK mold", and the Don Post fiberglass Deluxe Vader helmet from the mid-1990's (not the standard plastic party helmet).

As you are probably aware the "Rick Baker" mold is in the possession of ILM and is a copy pulled directly from the screen used ANH helmet. Based on the condition of the helmet at the time of the casting and how it subsequently appears in publicity tour photos it is estimated that this casting was done early summer of 1977. The two most obvious giveaways that a particular fan copy derives from this helmet are that the undercuts on the side tusk tubes are filled in, and the 3M connecting tabs on top of the mask are removed, to allow for easier mold release of the castings that Rick Baker made for publicity touring.

The so-called "UK Mold" is what we presume was a copy of the original ANH helmet made by Lucasfilm at the end of production of ANH and Pre-Production of Empire Strikes Back around 1977-78 while the helmet was still in the UK before being shipped to the US for publicity work. That casting bears a lot of details of the ANH helmet but also has some that from handling the helmet post-production of ANH. The most common trait of helmets derived from this casting is that they have the 3M tabs present at the top of the faceplate. All screen -used Darth Vader helmets from Empire forward are pulled from this mold.

"Mount Tour Variations" refers to helmets that employed different mounting solutions to the film-used helmets that were used on helmets crafted for touring suits. The most common of these is the "pipe" like mount seen on top of the Don Post Deluxe helmet but can also be very similar to the so-called 20th Century helmets which do resemble more closely the mount type used during production of Empire.

The Don Post Deluxe helmet was touted to be copied directly from a screen used Empire Strikes back helmet but this was a bit of more than poetic license or someone not remembering correctly when the helmet was provided to Don Post Studios to copy. Either way that's the story they sold with the helmets. Subsequent study, and discovery of the actual source helmet from Steve Sansweet, show that the DP Deluxe was copied from what was most likely a production made helmet, or more likely a helmet made in-house post RotJ, modified for touring purposes. Again, the giveaway is the mount. So, while the DP Deluxe does have production lineage, it's much farther down the line than was claimed in their PR material.

I don't know if this makes things any clearer, lol

Cheers

 

[jhfagan]

That chart does take a bit of knowledge to decipher. The chart is all post-production of ANH. Brian Muir worked at Elstree Studios for Lucasfilm and his sculpts were molded by a company that was subcontracted to make the copies for production (if I recall correctly what Mr Muir says in his book) -- none of this is covered in the chart.

Fan castings of the Darth Vader helmet that claim lineage to a film used helmet generally derive from one of three sources: the Rick Baker mold (most recent source for fans), the "UK mold", and the Don Post fiberglass Deluxe Vader helmet from the mid-1990's (not the standard plastic party helmet).

As you are probably aware the "Rick Baker" mold is in the possession of ILM and is a copy pulled directly from the screen used ANH helmet. Based on the condition of the helmet at the time of the casting and how it subsequently appears in publicity tour photos it is estimated that this casting was done early summer of 1977. The two most obvious giveaways that a particular fan copy derives from this helmet are that the undercuts on the side tusk tubes are filled in, and the 3M connecting tabs on top of the mask are removed, to allow for easier mold release of the castings that Rick Baker made for publicity touring.

The so-called "UK Mold" is what we presume was a copy of the original ANH helmet made by Lucasfilm at the end of production of ANH and Pre-Production of Empire Strikes Back around 1977-78 while the helmet was still in the UK before being shipped to the US for publicity work. That casting bears a lot of details of the ANH helmet but also has some that from handling the helmet post-production of ANH. The most common trait of helmets derived from this casting is that they have the 3M tabs present at the top of the faceplate. All screen -used Darth Vader helmets from Empire forward are pulled from this mold.

"Mount Tour Variations" refers to helmets that employed different mounting solutions to the film-used helmets that were used on helmets crafted for touring suits. The most common of these is the "pipe" like mount seen on top of the Don Post Deluxe helmet but can also be very similar to the so-called 20th Century helmets which do resemble more closely the mount type used during production of Empire.

The Don Post Deluxe helmet was touted to be copied directly from a screen used Empire Strikes back helmet but this was a bit of more than poetic license or someone not remembering correctly when the helmet was provided to Don Post Studios to copy. Either way that's the story they sold with the helmets. Subsequent study, and discovery of the actual source helmet from Steve Sansweet, show that the DP Deluxe was copied from what was most likely a production made helmet, or more likely a helmet made in-house post RotJ, modified for touring purposes. Again, the giveaway is the mount. So, while the DP Deluxe does have production lineage, it's much farther down the line than was claimed in their PR material.

I don't know if this makes things any clearer, lol

Cheers

Man....THANK YOU! lol
Yes....it does.
So, I guess what we're seeing then, is yes, eFX's Vader Legend/Limited is pulled directly from the Rick Baker mold, but the fine surface details (scratches, little dings, etc) were smoothed over a bit to make it prettier to the average eye? Although I do still see a lot of surface texture and things like the molding residue in the corners of the tusks and mouth cowling, etc, but nothing structurally or proportionately were changed?

And, there goes me wanting to track down a Don Post Deluxe Vader to pair with my Don Post Deluxe Fett. lol

 

[dcarty]

Man....THANK YOU! lol
Yes....it does.
So, I guess what we're seeing then, is yes, eFX's Vader Legend/Limited is pulled directly from the Rick Baker mold, but the fine surface details (scratches, little dings, etc) were smoothed over a bit to make it prettier to the average eye? Although I do still see a lot of surface texture and things like the molding residue in the corners of the tusks and mouth cowling, etc, but nothing structurally or proportionately were changed?

And, there goes me wanting to track down a Don Post Deluxe Vader to pair with my Don Post Deluxe Fett. lol

Glad that helped! Your description pretty much nails it. Licensed helmets are generally cleaned up for the consumption of the "average eye" so paint drips and scratches have to go. The prototype helmet that efx showed at conventions was actually a lot nicer and sharper than what made it into production.

I've had a soft spot for the Don Post helmets since I was a kid -- tempted from time to time to get a DP Deluxe Fett to go with my Vader, lol

 

[dcarty]

Double-post (my first ever!!). Website said there was a server problem.

 

[jhfagan]

I wish I was in charge of product management at eFX. lol

 

[jhfagan]

Glad that helped! Your description pretty much nails it. Licensed helmets are generally cleaned up for the consumption of the "average eye" so paint drips and scratches have to go. The prototype helmet that efx showed at conventions was actually a lot nicer and sharper than what made it into production.

I've had a soft spot for the Don Post helmets since I was a kid -- tempted from time to time to get a DP Deluxe Fett to go with my Vader, lol

Now...if we could just have eBay gift us both with our respective missing DP Deluxe units.... lol
I picked up my DP Deluxe Fett last year.... 26 year old holy grail search.... been looking for one since 1996.
Felt SOOO good to actually hold one in my arms and close to my body. lol
My remaining holy grail pieces, are obviously the DP Deluxe Vader, but also the ICONS Vader saber ( I also just picked up an ICONS Luke saber about 6 months ago) , the ICONS X-Wing model, and an original series Battlestar Galactica Viper Pilot helmet.
I could rest easily in my nerd room forever...lol

 

[Too Much Garlic]

most of these castings werent made by the people selling them, castings were made out of the mold and sold, whether that was through ebay or other sorts, heres a tree to give you a better idea,

That version is a little outdated. There has been made some changes to it since then. Not that it made it easier to follow, sadly... I fear it made it more complicated, but also a bit more correct.