Dullam's new Joker sculpt with teeth

Looking good. I think one thing that is definitely throwing off your sculpt is the size of the teeth. They seem too big for his mouth. Where his lips pull back on the sides you see space on the pics of him smiling but his mouth looks filled with those teeth.

He has a narrow bite. My teeth are the same way so that stuck out right away to me. A minor change that would have a big impact.

Those comparison pics above look deceiving as they don't appear to be the same angle. So unless pics with the same angle are used they might cause more harm than good.

I agree with Vash on the nostril flare. The ends where they hit the cheek should go higher than the tip of nose where it looks like they go down instead. Smiles are so damn tricky as they distort all of the muscles and especially with all of the slight variations and nuances. That and pulling the ends of the smile back and a bit deeper into the cheek will help give you that sneer.

Awesome so far but why are you tweaking a hard copy? isn't that really difficult to do?
 
Again, I would like to commend Bob for posting pics of this sculpt. There has been a lot of constructive commentary, so I hope there are no hard feelings. I think it is extraordinary when artists provide this opportunity for critique, and its a great thing for those who commission the sculpts.

With that said, they reason I am posting is because I have a passion for all things Joker related, and I absolutely love when great Joker likenesses are posted in the community.

I thought Doody's first Joker sculpt was out of this world. It was a perfect likeness. Since seeing the better pics, this one bugged me a bit. I decided to play around with the pics in photoshop.

In my opinion, I think the "loss of likeness" that has been written about is due to a few things:

1. the lack of a defined bottom lip
3. the right cheek and chin needs to be built out more
4. There is still a bit of "flatness" about the mouth and chin. I think it lacks the depth Ledger had to his face, which is particularly noticeable in those profile shots.
3. The particular smile used as a reference is not a very often seen "Heath smile." Heath had a broad grin, ear to ear, that was very top teeth heavy. This smile is simply not that, so it won't look as recognizable.

Here is the photoshop study. The top photo was corrected a bit for perspective. I am not convinced the smile is the main problem as you can see the outlines seem mostly correct. I think it is more about the cheeks and depth of the face.

1-24.jpg


2-27.jpg


3-27.jpg


4-22.jpg


5-16.jpg


6-12.jpg


ledger1stcoat001.jpg


Obviously, this isn't a perfect science. But I think the above combined with VashDstampede and cncenthusiast's observations about building out the bottom part of the face so it isn't so flat, would help. As it stands, respectfully, I don't see Ledger from the nose down, but I have every bit of confidence this could be great.
 
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See, this is hard and something you can beat yourself over the head with. Comp-ing photos just never works as the angles of the photographs are impossible to line up. They can do more harm than good. the above pics illustrate this as some things line up and some don't. This can give a false illusion that things are off when they're not.

Things that are correct in person will look wrong in a pic and vice versa. So any of the critiques given might actually be for naught and actually wrong if we saw it face to face.

Plus he's dealing with a prosthetic and pics with make-up which can complicate matters worse when compared to a flesh colored version.

It's a catch 22, really. It works better if he's the one taking the pics to match the photo reference angles and even then it depends on lenses, distance and lighting.

I have to ask what he is not liking at the moment if anything. Pictures of sculptures just open up a whole can of worms.
 
I don't really think its a matter of what he likes or doesn't like. I believe the goal of the thread is two fold. To get feedback/critiques on whether this sculpt accurately captures heath ledger and secondly captures the pose of the half smile/grin with teeth exposed from the hit me scene. Kinda like a w.i.p thread as others such as vash,fettster,cyberman have done. Luckily we've had some really great critiques and specific feedback to help out. The one common ground that seems to be present in most of the posts is that there are certain issues that need to be addressed. Furthermore, it may appear that these fixes may have to be done on the clay sculpt rather then the hard resin copy.
 
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Well, it's his sculpt. I think the 1st thing I'd really like to know is what HE thinks is off. Just because everyone CAN give an opinion doesn't mean we should. That's why i said the comp pics can be deceptive since it can easily distort what's there.

Obviously he's going to be polite and take everything with a grain of salt but I've seen threads like these where it becomes a pile on from everyone and their mother offering an opinion.

Since his stuff is top notch I'm more interested in hearing his thinking on things that possibly bother him because once he alters something it can in turn affect something else.

I would love to see more progress pics from the very start to the current version so I can see his thinking and how he goes about constructing. That to me is very informative and interesting.
 
I see your point, however the sculpt is actually being commissioned by myself. That is why I was posting some of the reference pics in the thread. I am really greatful that Bob has opened this thread for the exact purpose of seeking out various opinions, as I don't think he has done something like this before. As Bob has stated in the thread, he is totally welcoming of all the opinions, which I think is fantastic. I do agree that I think more progress pics from the very start to the current version would be a really, really interesting thread and would be really informative.
 
I can see the likeness forming but IMHO it's still a long way off. The lower portion of the face needs to be reworked. I think the chin is too pointed and the jawline looks underdeveloped, as if it should be filled in and outwards some.

The cheeks (specifically the laugh lines) on the 3/4 shots make the mouth seem sunk in, giving that area a very flat appearance.

I'm a huge fan of your work so please, take all of this as constructive criticism.
 
Thanks for the post Simmon M. I've heard through Bob's business manager that he's pretty busy lately so it may be awhile yet before he can read all these postings. Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to post. While we all come from different artistic backgrounds as either creators or spectators, it seems that the common ground is that the lower half needs to be reworked, possibly on the clay sculpt.
 
Hello everyone,
Thank you all so very, very much for the time you've all taken to review this sculpture, photoshop, etc. Such very helpful and constructive advice. To me, it seems that all the parts of Heath are there, but it's just not Heath. The pics of the Joker are different all throughout the movie, so trying to reproduce one pose is easier than trying to incorporate all the different poses of Heath. I think I'm just going to shelf this one for a while until it hits me. Then I'll repost and see what you all think.
Thanks, and good luck in all your endeavors,
Bob
 
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