Does Darth Vader’s Costume Look “Dated”??
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AnubisGuard
Master Member
IMO, sci-fi design from the 70s onward has aged a lot better 30+ years later than stuff from the 30s through the 60s had by a similar span of time. In part because Star Wars, Alien, Blade Runner, etc were able to learn from the mistakes of older sci-fi, and also, I think, because our technology has stagnated in real life in many ways. Most of the last 30 years of development has been a turning inward, rather than expanding outward. Better computers, smaller circuits, faster information technology. Less space travel, and fewer radical transformations in our everyday life to render these older sci-fi films visually out of date.
(We also shouldn't underestimate the effect that the Apollo program and the space race had on sci-fi design: prior to developing real spacecraft and space suits, sci-fi was basically just guessing, often badly. Post-Apollo, we have a good base for knowing what "real" space stuff looks like, so even when the fake stuff deviates wildly, it can be fanciful with intent. That's a seismic shift in what fictional future worlds are going to look like. Anything designed after it will simply look better.)
(We also shouldn't underestimate the effect that the Apollo program and the space race had on sci-fi design: prior to developing real spacecraft and space suits, sci-fi was basically just guessing, often badly. Post-Apollo, we have a good base for knowing what "real" space stuff looks like, so even when the fake stuff deviates wildly, it can be fanciful with intent. That's a seismic shift in what fictional future worlds are going to look like. Anything designed after it will simply look better.)
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Vader is such an iconic character that it's hard to view the character design in a vacuum, without our impression of it being colored by his ever-presence throughout pop culture.
That said, attempting to be objective: I think that the Vader helmet/shoulder armor looks timeless for the same reason the Stormtrooper helmet/armor does: it's all custom-sculpted and doesn't look like anything else in the real world. However, I can definitely imagine how Vader's body might look dated to modern/younger audiences.
Not to say that I don't love Vader's design, of course! But I'm trying to imagine how people would talk about that outfit if it came out in a movie today, without any preconceptions or attachment to the character. The puffy onesie, the codpiece, the boxes that look kind of "slapped on" to make it more futuristic, with random lights and switches that look like they might have been cobbled together at a Radio Shack...
That said, attempting to be objective: I think that the Vader helmet/shoulder armor looks timeless for the same reason the Stormtrooper helmet/armor does: it's all custom-sculpted and doesn't look like anything else in the real world. However, I can definitely imagine how Vader's body might look dated to modern/younger audiences.
Not to say that I don't love Vader's design, of course! But I'm trying to imagine how people would talk about that outfit if it came out in a movie today, without any preconceptions or attachment to the character. The puffy onesie, the codpiece, the boxes that look kind of "slapped on" to make it more futuristic, with random lights and switches that look like they might have been cobbled together at a Radio Shack...
The reference to Radio Shack is more dated than the costume...
JediMichael
Master Member
Also wondering, this stance that we see Vader doing, with his hands tucked by his belt.
I am totally guessing that is how David Prowse normally stood, just and ot just naturally copied onto Vader and all the cosplayers.
But, figure I would see if anyone knows for sure, as George was also pretty direct about certain things, Vader standing could have been one.
George was funny about the stuff he cared for and was strict about, vs stuff you would expect a director or person in charge like him, that didn't seem to care about as much.
I am totally guessing that is how David Prowse normally stood, just and ot just naturally copied onto Vader and all the cosplayers.
But, figure I would see if anyone knows for sure, as George was also pretty direct about certain things, Vader standing could have been one.
George was funny about the stuff he cared for and was strict about, vs stuff you would expect a director or person in charge like him, that didn't seem to care about as much.
Okay, okay, fine, Circuit City. Or, uh, CompUSA? Wait, no, Fry's Electronics. Hrmm, I'm sensing a pattern here...
JediMichael
Master Member
So just for fun, threw this shot into photoshop and widened Vader just a tad and added the cape over his other shoulder. Funny how that little fix does help so much.....and its so subtle....and here George was worried about his eye brows and eye color....
I always got a Samurai vibe from his resting stance. Maybe it was just how Prowse stood or possibly by design.Another clue about the stance, (as others have noticed in previous posts), is the way Prowse put his two hands on his belt, making his elbows flare in the cape...hence making a bigger surface and looking bigger and meaner doing so.
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This is a pic someone took of me in my Vader kit many years ago. My arms are at my side beneath my cape, and with my hands and arms not showing Darth Vader looks 'off'. I either do the 'Prowse pose' or I flair my arms outside my cape so my Vader doesn't look like a dark traffic cone.
JARVIS DIMMIAS
New Member
I mean, Tatooine has 2 suns and not a drop of Oil of Olay in sight.
What chance did she have?
bbwolf
New Member
what an excellent analysis and reference images. Thank you
bbwolf
New Member
Anyone got any take on the Square Enix Variant Arts Version? Personally, I think its a bit too far here and there, but overall, pretty dang Badass alternative/ modern Universe Interpretation of the Character.
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joberg
Legendary Member
Lots! I don't know if you read the stats on how much Tatooine ozone layer plays an important part in protecting its inhabitants against the harmful sun rays
Vagabond Elf
Well-Known Member
This is very much part of my thinking: that by the 1970s, sci-fi costuming had reached a sort of minimum threshold such that it still looks very solid today. Sort like how a car from the 1990s might be lacking in amenities but otherwise handles and feels very comparable to a car built last year. Whilst a car from the 1960s has a feel and a handling and even a control layout that is very, very different and much less efficient.
Anyway, I did remember to ask an actual young person about this! She couldn't remember ever seeing the OT (although her father informed us that she has - but he conceded she would have been under 10 so it's not a huge surprise she doesn't really remember it); nevertheless, Vader is such a major part of the pop culture zeitgeist that she's familiar with his look, and no, there's nothing about him that seems dated or goofy. One is not a statistically significant number, obviously, but when asking the question "Does Vader seem dated to young people these days?" I figure the opinion of even 1 you person is much, much more useful than the opinions of dozens of 40-to-60 year olds.
Great insight.
HMSwolfe
Master Member
I can only answer partially as the “younger generation”; I am 26, but obviously there’s a bias at play, considering I am a big fan of the OT and I’m not much for a lot of modern costume sensibilities. However, I’d agree with most of the sentiments here: the helmet is iconic, and couldn’t really be touched—the only thing I’d say that makes it feel dated are a few shots in ESB where you can see the underside of the back shroud where it’s clearly fiberglass or something, and in the same shot where the entire top of the helmet moves slightly (it’s during the father reveal on the bridge during the climax). That kind of dates it a little, but having seen three different modern interpretations now of the same character (ROTS, R1, and Kenobi) I still prefer the jank and charm of the wonky OT helmets. As for the rest of the costume, it’s really probably only the leather parts of the outfit (which can usually hardly be seen in the OT) and just how big the control box is that might pull some people out, but overall, no. Thing that date films are usually less subtle than anything on Vader’s costume. What looks dated is stuff like Sigourney Weaver’s hair in Alien, or the super contrasty high saturation blue-orange color grade from the mid-00s, or, hazarding a guess to the future, intricately over-designed stuff like Superman from Man of Steel. All the unnecessary extra details and the complications will make it feel very dated someday, aside from the fact I think they don’t look great now. Anyways, we can guess as to what a modern interpretation of Vader would look like—there’s plenty of Kylo Ren concept art that tells us that. Although even that is somewhat tempered compared to stuff like Man of Steel or something like that.
Yeah, I can imagine that if Vader’s costume were designed today, from scratch, a million tiny “DV’s” would line the interior of his cape and inner cloak….
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