DL 44 Mystery disc

[Aison]

In my research and searching the rpf I have been looking for a dedicated thread to the mystery disc on the DL 44 Hero ANH. I could not find much, so I am starting a thread. If I have missed a thread than please forgive me. If this info is already know then sorry again.

When I look at the Dl 44 mystery disc, I wonder and think, is it intentional? Why, was it a mistake? Well looking at the naked runner photo http://www.tested.com/art/makers/452186-how-obsessive-fans-built-better-han-solo-blaster/

It is clear that where the mystery disc is, there was a hole drilled into the mauser to mount the scope on that side.

This rig was changed over to be mounted on the other side for ANH. This leaves a hole.

I also wonder if maybe under the rail that the scope bracket slides onto may have had a washer.

If this area was bare metal, or sanded to remove the bur from the hole, and then was painted while assembled, then on disassembly we may see a circular patch of bare metal and a central hole. Explaining the disk.

So that is one posibility, the other may be that there was just the hole, (which would be easy enough to fill and paint black.) And then they used that hole with a forstner type bit and milled a circle removing the painted surface, and leaving what looks like a bare metal disk.

So that's my opinion, I welcome others to debate and inform all us noobs who are researching to build our DL 44's.

 

[Aison]

Just watched Adam Savages one day builds of the DL 44 again, @ 4:10 they show the Naked runner mauser, the mounts on the other side, the nut/bolts with what looks like a
washer underneath near his hand side. The rail is not on yet, which kinda makes me think that when the gun was fitted with the scope mount it was assembled like this and given a quick touch up spray of black to paint the thumb screws and any bare areas. Take it off after, and there is the mystery disk. If the paint is thick enough it would also make the area looked as if was milled.

 

[H0llyw00d]

I thought it was determined that only the upper was used from the Naked Runner mauser and the lower was from a different model (solid rather than holed safety).



They talk about it extensively in the Greeblies Found! thread:

http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=118186&page=71&p=2642628&highlight=mystery disk#post2642628

 

[scottjua]

The NR lower mount hole is too small and in the wrong place to be related.

 

[Aison]

Thanks for the replies. I have also noticed that on this reference that if you zoom in on the hole, you can see a different reflection of the metal around the hole, it looks like it has
been soldered, so the hole could have been bigger.


I will read the other thread, it really makes sense this would create the mystery disk if blued or painted while these thumb screws and washers were on. Thanks for the feed back.

 

[Darth Lars]

I think that the dot in the middle of the "mystery disc" could just as well be only paint.

I think they had glued an "Imperial disc" (pulley from a Michell record player) to the side of the blaster and painted it. Then the disc fell off.
The metal is brighter around the dot - which I think is lack of glue residue.

 

[Aison]

After reading the greeblies found thread, it makes more sense it is milled, and it makes more sense it is the NR lower reciever that was milled for the spacer washer to seat flat to the body since the area on the mauser is not flat but declines to the front, this would mean that the deeper part milled would be towards the trigger end of the disk. On looking at this photo enlarged, there is a deep cut and lip evident at this half of the circle which fits this idea. The spacer washer would have been a bit smaller than the milled area to I think?


At different times it is also possible that the top part of the gun was changed to another gun and then swapped back for some reason. In the end its just photos and conjectures, I am only trying my best to try and work out something that makes some sense as I am building my DL 44.

 

[Aison]

I asked Roygilsing to take a look at the NR photo and the Dl 44 B/W original photo, he was kind enough to make an Giff overlay, thanks Roy, and from down under, as we would say, 'Thanks, you are a legend mate! My red line ball park marking was not that far off, it looks like NR gun was used completely, and that the mystery disk is not prop design, but something left over from from the mount machining done on the other side from the NR movie.
@roygilsing Thanks buddy!


Click on first image to watch overlay giff. The reflection on the lip also indicates it was machined/milled into the lower receiver.

 

[scottjua]

Nope... not the NR gun at all. Look at the upper receivers... two things:

The forward facing scallops/chamfers in the Bull barrels... different depths/angles.

Also the bull barrel is mounted farther forward on the NR gun.

Now the lower...

The disk vs. mount on the NR placement is different all together. Same AREA, but not the same spot.

The NR lower is a PRE-war variant... the ANH Han is a wartime variant.

Bapty obviously made more than one iteration of this bull barreled pistol.

 

[thd9791]

I think that the dot in the middle of the "mystery disc" could just as well be only paint.

I think they had glued an "Imperial disc" (pulley from a Michell record player) to the side of the blaster and painted it. Then the disc fell off.
The metal is brighter around the dot - which I think is lack of glue residue.

Is this area the same size as one of the pulleys? That's news to me, and a really cool fact. Makes a LOT of sense.

 

[Aison]

Thanks scottjua I see now what you mean. That is really easy to see with the giff. Also in the NR photos there seems to be two different scopes used as well. Also on the promo photo using the hensoldt scope, is this the same gun in the vlc snapshot, or a different mauser. Was there more than one NR gun? I noticed on the promo photo there are scratches and wear marks on the scope mount bar, and if you mounted it on the other side it looks like it might match the scratch mark area on the ANH blaster pics. So, was the NR scope + mounts and screws used from the NR gun, and put onto a different mauser for ANH?

What's you opinion on the mystery disc, by design, or that the spot was machined for a previous purpose?

 

[Aison]

Well it has been over a year, and this Mystery disc has been on my mind from time to time, I sit there and look at the photos trying to nut it out, I really want to know, I want to finish my DL 44 knowing what each part is.
So recently I came across some other photos that I wished I had seen earlier, they are of the DL44 without grill and mystery disc, the scratches on the scope look to me like the ones on the original. (Can anyone confirm this is the DL44 pre grill and disc?) What is important about this was it made me think differently.




Before I was arguing that the Mystery disc was machined out and was remnant from the Naked Runner props, reason being, is that there is no way I could believe that prop guy thought to machine out a disc area for an aesthetic design, reason being, ANH was a movie that everyone was laughing at as it was being made, even the crew, the props were slapped together and you can see them falling apart during the movie, on Luke’s light saber, you can see misaligned T tracks, and a missing one. I even believe at some point the D ring probably broke off, and why in ESB the D ring clip and T tracks are fastened down much better.





So now I look at the evidence on all the blasters, the prop builder had a pattern, “a stick things on pattern.” The Hoth blaster has a disc on the other side, and I have seen another pic where it appears that there was something else over that too. It is easier and faster to stick things on, the only way I can believe this area was machined would be for a purpose, not an aesthetic design.
So why does it have a lip that looks machined? That’s what was was doing my head in, I would often look at it and think, ‘It looks like a coin’ Maybe the stamping was ground off, too hard, it would be quicker to machine it.
Now another thing I noticed is that from photos we can be misled by lighting, on the V2 lightsaber the majority saw the emitter as being recessed but it proved to be the opposite.
I next looked at another promo photo of Han Solo, took it into photoshop, increased pixels and zoomed into the disc, and I can clearly see a darker shadow stripe that follows around the circumference of the disc, then a separate shade that is the black/colour of the lower receiver, it is a raised edge, if it were milled in this circular stripe around the disc should not be there, the colour of the lower receiver should look more uniform all the way to the edge of where it has been milled.




Finally I looked at it and said, ‘It’s a Fu#$@& coin!’ I then looked up American coins and the size of their diameters, Quarter looks good at a diameter of ø 24.26mm, next I thought is there such a thing as a blank quarter, answer ‘Yes.’ Minting errors.

Next I did a scaling in photoshop, I have the Reade models Tomtit dummy engine cylinders that were cut into three sections of six fins. By this I knew I could scale the diameter and then measure the parts. I also own a MR Luke ESB blaster that I have stripped for a re-build, I noticed that it was smaller than a denix, and somewhat more accurate to a real C96 Mauser, and the measurement from the bottom of the disc down to the bottom of the lower receiver minus the magazine plate which also vindicates the scaling.
I sourced some quarter blanks circa 1965, (Nickel coating on the edge is not complete and copper also can be seen which can be seen on 1965 quarters.) had to buy them in bulk as a lot, so a big gamble. They arrived and I measured them, they = ø 23.76mm – 23.84mm. I was wondering why they were smaller, then realized that when they are stamped they would get a little bigger.

View attachment mystery disc scaled.jpg
View attachment mystery disc black white.jpg


The Scale shows the disc’s diameter just stops under or slightly into the 10th fin. The Vernier reads 23.76mm




49.76mm, trom the top of the disc on the eyebrow line to the bottom of lower receiver minus magazine plate on my MR 2003 ESB Luke.


Now I know there is another photo of the beauty prop blaster, that was molded from the original DL 44 which has a circular groove that looks like it is cut out of the eyebrow line and why people think it is also milled out. This blaster makes an appearance in the dagobah scene where Luke crash lands I think. This blaster inspired ROTJ Han. Again pistons are glued on along with other greeblies. It makes sense that Han's original DL 44 after ANH had the grill removed, this coin popped off, glue residue left behind, then it was used to make a resin mold. Han hardly uses a blaster in ESB and we know his and Luke's was shared too.




Here is another shot of the coin and how it would sit, there is a gap where glue would fill, and create the edge that also makes it look like the disc was milled.




To be continued.......

 

[Aison]

Now for some screen shots



Oh how it shines, notice no black dot, also no black dot in the center of one of the promo shots as well. Also it is clear that there is a darker black ring/shadow around the disc which suggests it is raised and we are seeing edge and drop shadow. (Second photo, contrast is adjusted a touch.)

View attachment mystery disc black white scratches.jpgView attachment mystery disc black white2.jpg

Click on the pictures, download them then look at them using the zoom in picture viewer. I have high lighted on one pic a the little hatching scratch marks. These little scratches, are also an evident pattern on the Nickel quarters I have, if you go back to the vernier pic with one of them you can see them in that pic. (A) the very white areas are how a black and white photo is recording the reflecting nickel.

Well that's the sum of my work, look forward to replies. I have 30 circa 1965 blank quarters, I have 20 more in reserve. If people are interested please post if interested. If there are enough people I will upgrade my rpf membership to sell them. At this stage I am looking at selling them for a ballpark price 25-35 US depending on shipping, I also may grade them to quality and price.

 

[Egon]

huh. interesting. I wonder if they did use coin blanks, why and how they decided on those?

 

[veektohr]

Interesting wrinkle here. I wish this blaster would turn up in somebody's private collection already. How awesome would a World-Con level moment be for the OG DL-44? If you're starting an interest list, the mods will probably ask you to do it in the project runs section

 

[Aison]

Interesting wrinkle here. I wish this blaster would turn up in somebody's private collection already. How awesome would a World-Con level moment be for the OG DL-44? If you're starting an interest list, the mods will probably ask you to do it in the project runs section

I think this blaster may have been turned into Han's ROTJ, they made specific scope mounts that spread out to where the holes for the ANH mount are for the other scope, so they re-used a blaster with pre-drilled tapped holes at ANH spacing. (I could be wrong on this one too, looked at other photos of ROTJ and upper receiver looks different, who knows what happened to the original.)



I wanted to see if people were interested in buying them first before I upgraded to premium member which then allows me to post in project runs. Thanks

 

[Aison]

The other promo shot of Han that shows the edge of the disc

 

[DeLano80]

If the blaster was made/assembled in England, wouldn't an English coin make more sense?

Maybe I should not discuss things I know nothing about.

Now, back to my corner..... opcorn

 

[CT1138]

Personally it always reminded me of those little, quarter sized metal disks I used to pick up from construction sites as a kid. Used to be able to fool the vending machines at school with them because they were ancient and didn't have the magnets making sure you didn't do that.

 

[Irken Tech]

Personally it always reminded me of those little, quarter sized metal disks I used to pick up from construction sites as a kid. Used to be able to fool the vending machines at school with them because they were ancient and didn't have the magnets making sure you didn't do that.

Ah yeah, knock-out disks from electrical junctions boxes. I had to pick up every one of those I saw in the hopes it was actually a quarter.