DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion - Greeblies POST 208

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by Boba Debt, Dec 6, 2014.

  1. Boba Debt

    Boba Debt Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,660
    This thread is for discussing the parts of the DL-44 ESB Blasters


    [​IMG]


    PLEASE DO NOT DISCUSS COST OR ASK ABOUT BUYING ITEMS IN THIS THREAD.


    If you want information about the ESB Blaster Active Project go to this thread: http://www.therpf.com/f75/dl-44-esb-blaster-active-project-230130/


    I would like to keep this thread focused and would ask that all participants stay on topic and only discuss the current part.

    Once everyone involved in the Active Project is happy with a part I will put a summery of that discussion in the 2nd post of this thread.


    The current parts being discussed are the GREEBLIS and the discussion starts at post 208
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2015
    Huyang, sirg70 and ataru72ita like this.
  2. Boba Debt

    Boba Debt Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,660
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    THEAD SYNOPSIS

    __________________________________________________________________________________


    FLASH HIDER

    Post 3 to Post 111

    Both Flash Hiders feature a similar design. Internally they have a "barrel through" design that seems to be specific to the ESB Blasters. They also feature a counter bore at the back, perhaps to replicate the look of the ANH Flash Hiders



    BESPIN FLASH HIDER

    [​IMG]

    Judging by the lack of discussion it would seem that most people think my current version of the Bespin Flash Hider is accurate.



    HOTH FLASH HIDER

    [​IMG]


    Opinions on the Hoth Flash Hider are still varied and solid photographic information has yet to surface but this is what we came up with.

    The over all shape of the Hoth version is similar to the Bespin version but there are there are disagreements about the material and knurling.

    MATERIAL:
    • Delrin - Some believe the Hoth Flash Hider was machined from black Delrin
    • Resin - Others think is was cast in resin, possibly black resin
    • Metal - Most do not think it was machined from metal but like the idea of using metal because it add richness to the part


    KNURLING:
    • The conventional wisdom is that there are 2 bands of knurling, one thin and one thick
    • Some think it is possible that there is a single band of knurling that was either cast poorly of sanded away giving the impression of 2 bands
    • Others thin the flash hider wasn't knurled, instead the knurling was painted on.





    I personal think the best way to achieve the look of the Hoth Flash Hider is to machine it in aluminum with 2 bands. The weathering effect could be achieved by anodizing it black followed by a coat of matte silver.


    __________________________________________________________________________________


    SCOPE BRACKETS
    Post 118 to Post 173


    The Bespin and Hoth Flash Hiders are very different from each other

    Both bracket seem to be made from off the shelf .125 aluminum angle

    The Bespin version is taller and slimmer with small radiused corners and the Hoth version is shorter and wider with square external corners and larger radiused inside corners


    Bespin Bracket

    [​IMG]


    Hoth Bracket

    [​IMG]

    __________________________________________________________________________________
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2014
  3. Boba Debt

    Boba Debt Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,660
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    THE FLASH HIDER

    As far as I know there are 2 main flash hiders used on the ESB Blasters

    I will refer to them as the HAN STUNT (Hoth) and LUKE HERO (Bespin) versions

    My Flash Hiders feature the barrel through design and the back counter bore

    Here is a simplified drawing of each:


    [​IMG]


    In my opinion my shop is the only one that has correctly produced the knurling bands on the main body of the flash hider.

    Most shops make a single knurled section and then cut material away to create the bands which results in a very pronounced knurl and body bands that have a smaller outside diameter, both of which are not accurate

    My shop makes each band with a single light plunge which creates the light knurl pattern lie the props blasters.

    I think the only detail I have missed in the past is the small step on the front edge on the main body of the Hoth version but I am open to ALL new discoveries and perspectives so PLEASE discuss :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2014
    sirg70 and ataru72ita like this.
  4. 3oin

    3oin Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    441
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    Hey Boba :) Is the idea to replicate both types of blaster for the project ? Or will it eventually come down to one or the other ? (leaning Hoth right now )

    Really looking forward to this :)

    Thanks
     
  5. Boba Debt

    Boba Debt Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,660
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion



    I should be able to offer both at the same time.
     
  6. ataru72ita

    ataru72ita Well-Known Member

    Trophy Points:
    817
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    Subscribed here as well!!
    Can't wait to see the whole discussion!
    I'll bet it'll be as epic as the ROTJ DL-44!!(y)D

    Regards,

    Alberto
     
  7. Reel Fakes

    Reel Fakes Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    I think there are at least 3 versions of the ESB DL-44.

    #1 - Han Hero
    • Live-fire Mauser
    • Metal flash hider,
    • 1941-version M-19 telescope
    • Unknown Left-Side Details
    • Strange knurled thumbscrew on the scope mount
    Han_ESB_Hero.jpg

    #2 - Han Stunt:
    • MGC Mauser,
    • Resin(?) flash hider with drawn-on knurling
    • 1942-version M-19 telescope
    • V8 Details on Left side
    Han_ESB_Stunt.jpg

    #3 - Luke Hero:
    • Live-fire Mauser
    • Metal flash hider,
    • 1942-version M-19 telescope
    • Something above the trigger on the left side...
    • Strange knurled thumbscrew on the scope mount
    Luke_ESB_Hero.jpg

    I think this pic shows both hero versions of the ESB DL-44's:
    image.jpg
     
    ataru72ita likes this.
  8. Boba Debt

    Boba Debt Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,660
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    Since most people will not be trying to build a Live Fire version I think it would best to keep this discussion on the Han Stunt and Luke Hero versions.

    I'm going to edit my 3rd post to reflect those names.
     
  9. newmagrathea

    newmagrathea Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,681
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    I think that I'm going to go for the Luke Bespin flash hider and associated parts.
     
  10. scottjua

    scottjua Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,565
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    Don't forget that reference I showed you on the Bespin Knobs. ^_^
     
  11. scottjua

    scottjua Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,565
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    The Luke Hero was also a Live fire...

    And I at least will be building a live fire Luke. ^_^
     
  12. scottjua

    scottjua Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,565
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    ok so here's what I got and backing up REELFAKES post.

    Starting with Hoth Han (Stunt). Image is Really big so open in new tab/window:

    The left side greeblies look like Of course the reveal V8 pistons... a "motor coil" part from the kit, and two unknown parts above the trigger. Now those round things looks like rivets or screws covered in paint or something... masking the clarity.

    This was the only MGC and non-live fire Mauser used as far as we know... other than the resin stunts that may have been in holsters of course.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Now I'll focus on Luke's live fire mauser
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Here you can see the thickness and placement of the spacer, and the thickness of the mount.
    [​IMG]


    Here we see the left side, which looks to have something over the trigger, but that's it.
    [​IMG]

    TO ME, I don't see the motor coil greeblie we've come to think is on there. The shadows show clearly the possibly distributor piece of the trigger, and that the Mauser looks to be a PRE-WAR version with the hole in the safety. But no evidence of the motor coil part.
    [​IMG]

    I would guess both Luke and Han's live fire props didn't have much or anything aside from what we see on the left side, because both props were drawn and fired on film. Those pieces would have broken off almost instantly.

    Han's knob on the mount seems to be nearly the same as Lukes, and the mount while only slightly different is generally the same shape. There are slight differences of course.

    The mount on the MGC/Stunt/Hoth version is NOT the same as the two live fires. It is shorter and doesn't extend as far down the Mauser's magazine. Also note the difference in scope height between the Hoth and Bespin live fires. The Live Fires mount the scope lower compared the the top profile.

    one more:

    Here you can clearly see the hole on the safety, but the above trigger greeblie still is not 100% verifiable.
    [​IMG]
     
    Shadowknight likes this.
  13. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,870
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    I think it's just the V8 part #84 distributor retainer above Luke's trigger.
    [​IMG]

    Scott, thanks for posting all those reference photos!
     
    scottjua likes this.
  14. guabe

    guabe Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    785
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    is it just me or the flash hider from the Stunt look like its shorter?
     
  15. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon Well-Known Member

    Trophy Points:
    586
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    Just want to clear this up.. I thought I read somewhere that there were differences between the flash hiders in the Luke and Han Bespin versions, but now I can't really spot any other than the weathering. Is that true?
     
    Kenzie C01 likes this.
  16. OdiWan72

    OdiWan72 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,376
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    Definately no differences between the bespin blasters design.

    David:
    Already emailed you about this...while I think your Bespin muzzle design is a good as it can get and doesn´t need any significant changes, the Hoth muzzle is still inaccurate IMHO. There is an extra "step" behind the cylindrical section before the taper for the front-section starts, which isn´t present on your recent design.

    As far as focussing on the Luke bespin only...besides of the detailing and weathering, the scope mount itself varies between the Luke and the Han bespin DL44. While the overall dimensions are near identical, the area where the scope mount angles back shows different radii.

    Markus
     
  17. OdiWan72

    OdiWan72 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,376
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    double post, sorry
     
  18. scottjua

    scottjua Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,565
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    Agreed... I said that too, but it was more general with no explanation. Markus is right though, the Han and Luke Mounts are slightly different although similar. The other reference photos I saw up close, showed it very clearly. Unfortunately I don't have those personally as they were shown to me by a license holder.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Agreed... that's what I think it is too, but none of these pics are clear enough to saw 100% based on them. I'm still searching for better reference. If only LFL would let me in!
     
  19. scottjua

    scottjua Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,565
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    Also guys look at this pic (open new tab/window)... the above trigger greeblies... there are letters on those pieces.

    [​IMG]

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yup... looks smaller to me for sure.
     
  20. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    Thanks for all this reference guys! It's my favorite blaster and on my bucket list of projects.

    The mount for the M19 is a LOT thinner than I ever thought. Just to be clear, that's a custom cut piece, right? There's no real (historical) scope mount that looks like that?

    Edit: I also agree there are letters or numbers on those greeblies but I can't..for the life of me...decrypt them
     
  21. guabe

    guabe Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    785
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    I think both pieces are just the Motor Coil greeblie cut in to two pieces... the bottom one says COL and the Top says OTO

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2014
    thd9791 likes this.
  22. scottjua

    scottjua Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,565
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    I thought that too but hadn't voiced it yet.
     
  23. Boba Debt

    Boba Debt Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,660
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    I do not want to dissuade discussion of other parts but for now we need to focus on the Flash Hiders.

    If everyone starts discussing the various parts the thread will get very hard to follow.

     
  24. OdiWan72

    OdiWan72 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,376
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    Will post a rough drawing I did as an overlay of the Hoth muzzle asap

    Markus
     
  25. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion


    Okie doke, my apologies. Maybe you should change the initial title of this thread to include the specific vein you'd like to follow.
     
  26. Dann

    Dann Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,415
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    Dude, guabe. You are absolutely genius! That's totally got to be what those parts above the trigger are!!

    Exciting new discovery!!

    Back to the flash hiders...
     
  27. Shadowknight

    Shadowknight Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    1,341
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    I'm trying to see what you are seeing, are you talking about at the end of the knurling right before the muzzle starts to slope down?

     
  28. OdiWan72

    OdiWan72 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,376
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    Here´s what I am talking about. this "step" is missing on the current drawings.
    In addition to that I would like to add two other aspects to the discussion...
    a) material of the Hoth muzzle (I´d like to see it done in black Delrin, not aluminum)
    b) knurling on the Hoth muzzle, which is obviously hard to replicate but maybe we can think of a better way than simply adding just the "clean", fine knurling as in your drawing.

    [​IMG]

    Markus
     
    Huyang likes this.
  29. Darth Lars

    Darth Lars Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,661
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    How do you know the original was made in Delrin and not resin?
    Delrin is somewhat slippery and I don't think it takes paint well.

    BTW, for those who didn't know: Delrin is a brand name for POM, also called "acetal" plastic.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2014
  30. OdiWan72

    OdiWan72 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,376
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    I am open for whatever we come up with as accurate.
    p.s.: never had any problems with paint adhering to machined delrin parts and even IF the paint would chip....it'd be somewhat accurate

    Markus
     
  31. Boba Debt

    Boba Debt Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,660
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion



    When you PMed me a while ago I thought the Hoth flash hider had the step but now I'm not seeing it in the posted images. Do you have an image that shows the step better?



    a) I might be able to offer the Hoth muzzle in either material but I think you will be the only person that wants on in black Delrin.

    b) There is no way to machine the look of the weathered knurling but the knurling is so light it would be possible to hand sand it to get that look, BUT it would take skill to match the images.


    I'm also starting to wonder if there is just a single wide band of knurling on the Hoth that was sanded away to make it look like had a space between the 2 sections.
     
  32. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,870
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    He wouldn't be the only one looking for black derlin! ;)

     
  33. Dann

    Dann Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,415
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    I like the idea of a sand/media blasted aluminum flash hider, and one row of knurling.
     
  34. Anakin Starkiller

    Anakin Starkiller Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,265
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    I've never had problems of getting paint to stick to delrin.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2014
  35. Mara Jade's Father

    Mara Jade's Father Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,376
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    Just curious; besides price and weight, what is the benefit of using Derlin for the muzzle? Specially since the two guys who are asking for it are very * about their blaster. (That sort of sounds painful). :eek
     
  36. Anakin Starkiller

    Anakin Starkiller Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,265
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    Han_ESB_Stunt My Muzzel Model.jpg

    I made a 3d model of this muzzle. Here is a comparison of my muzzle with the available shots.

    Let me know what you think?

    Dan
     
  37. Dann

    Dann Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,415
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    That looks pretty galdern close to me!

    Maybe bring the back end of the knurled section forward just a touch, and make the back ring a hair thicker.

    I'm not seeing the flat section where the cones meet, but it might be there...
     
  38. Anakin Starkiller

    Anakin Starkiller Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,265
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    I'm in the camp of saying that the knurls on the Han ESB blaster were painted on. However, this would be difficult for most people to do when finishing there blasters. So, what I'd recommend is making the muzzles without any knurling and then supplying waterside decals of the drawn on knurling to finish the build.
    my .02


    Dan
     
  39. Anakin Starkiller

    Anakin Starkiller Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,265
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    On an earlier version, the knurled section was a little shorter, but then I realized that the drawn on knurling doesn't reach all the way back to the end of that section, so that's why it might look a little long here
     
  40. OdiWan72

    OdiWan72 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,376
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    Hey Dan

    I received a Hoth muzzle from you a few years ago and the proportions seemed slightly off. The new 3D model is much better, but I´d still shorten the length of the taper right behind the cylindrical section...it´s a tad too long IMHO

    I am a firm believer of the drewn knurling myself.
    Check the few available refrence pictures and pay attention to the light reflecting from the KNURLS, which would be possible if these are recessed/ raised areas. I tried the painted on knurling effect on my latest HOTH Dl44 WIP and even if not accurate, it´s much closer than anything else I´ve seen so far

    View attachment 387022

    Markus
     
  41. guabe

    guabe Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    785
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    I don't think the step that you have on the middle chamfer should be there... I believe it's more of a filet like the other FH's... but since the images are overexposed it dissapears...

    example:
    [​IMG]

    it looks like a step on the top but it's just too much light to see it.
     
  42. Dann

    Dann Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,415
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    There may be some clues regarding the shape in the shadow here.
     

    Attached Files:

  43. guabe

    guabe Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    785
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    here are more images, and again i believe there is no step... just a very small or shallow filet.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  44. Dann

    Dann Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,415
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    Yeah I'm not really seeing a step either. I can see how it can look like there's one, at certain angles.
     
  45. guabe

    guabe Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    785
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    One more thing... I do believe there are grooves and not painted lines, but it was a very shallow cast and a very wornout mold... as if the ribs from the mold that make the grooves were sanded instead of the hider itself after casting it...to make that center band and somwhat screwed it... LOL... am I making any sense?
     
  46. guabe

    guabe Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    785
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    this is my idealized version

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Still work in process
     
  47. Mara Jade's Father

    Mara Jade's Father Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,376
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    I was about to post something along those lines. If the model was made with negative knurling, you could easily blacken with paint or aluminum black. If you added enough paint to the grooves, you could make the surface smooth.

    I also have a hard time believing someone drew lines on the muzzle. Don't get me wrong, I believe they are there but I was wondering if the part is a yet discovered found item and that whatever it was, it was connected to something that cause gouges into the surface.
     
    guabe likes this.
  48. Curmudgeon

    Curmudgeon Well-Known Member

    Trophy Points:
    586
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    I feel like this might explain the different lengths of the wearing on the grooves as well. It seems like itd be easier for that to happen in the mold than on the part itself
     
  49. Anakin Starkiller

    Anakin Starkiller Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,265
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    In each one of those pics, I see the step. I don't think a warn out mold theory makes much sense, since this blaster was a one off. Also, I'd considered the possibility that the knurreling looks painted on due to paint roughly applied to a machined knurl. But when I compare David's previous muzzel, where this is the case, to Markus' painted on knurreling on his blaster, Markus' looks pretty dead on to me.

    [​IMG]
     
  50. guabe

    guabe Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    785
    Re: DL-44 ESB Blaster Discussion

    I am having a very hard time seeing what you see in both cases... I just changed the gama and contrast on this one...

    [​IMG]

    Look at how it curves going from the cylender to the chamfer on the upper corner... And I can see grooves on the barrel.
     
    ataru72ita likes this.

Share This Page