Warner Chappell Music IP and Fan Use.

[Goldhawk]

Wow. Just wow. This was really disheartening to hear, even though it only confirmed what we already knew. I will definitely not be going to see ep. 9. Or going to the new star wars land in Disney. I had been keeping an eye on this series, and it had a strong start. Shame, Disney. Shame.

 

[BudaFett]

Disney/Lucasfilm owns Star Wars. You can't monetize Star Wars on a large scale.

We know this. Not a surprise.

 

[Goldhawk]

True. He specifically made sure not to monetize it at all, though. As a fan of the film, it was rather disappointing to hear. That's the Mouse, though I guess.

 

[BudaFett]

If you think Lucas wasn't protecting their property before Disney you're very wrong.

 

[CAPNMURICAH]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??! He reached out to Lucasfilm to ask permission, and they said as long as he didnt monetize it he could make it. He didnt and now theyre on his case anyway??! For real Disney??!

 

[Psab keel]

I'm not surprised by this to be honest. Does it make it right for Disney to do this if he went about it correctly to get the permissions? No. That was a dick move on their part.

Though to my mind if he had those kinds of resources and creativity, why bother making a Star Wars fan film at all? Why not make your own original content and have ownership/ control over everything about it?

You watch. This will set a precedent. Not long from now they will ban fan films altogether. They may even go after prop, model, and costume sights like theRPF. It wouldn't surprise me at all. If you think it's bad now, it's only going to get worse. I know this sounds extreme, but they could very well go after all kinds of people to protect their IP.

Adam Savage even said on one of his podcasts that a friend of his that still works at ILM or Lucasfilm knows everyone who is making and selling Star Wars stuff. It wouldn't shock me in the least.

 

[Goldhawk]

I'm not surprised by this to be honest. Does it make it right for Disney to do this if he went about it correctly to get the permissions? No. That was a dick move on their part.

Though to my mind if he had those kinds of resources and creativity, why bother making a Star Wars fan film at all? Why not make your own original content and have ownership/ control over everything about it?

You watch. This will set a precedent. Not long from now they will ban fan films altogether. They may even go after prop, model, and costume sights like theRPF. It wouldn't surprise me at all. If you think it's bad now, it's only going to get worse. I know this sounds extreme, but they could very well go after all kinds of people to protect their IP.

Adam Savage even said on one of his podcasts that a friend of his that still works at ILM or Lucasfilm knows everyone who is making and selling Star Wars stuff. It wouldn't shock me in the least.

Surprised? No, I agree there.
I certainly hope that they don't attempt to shut costuming down, though. What confounds me is with the kind of money they make why they feel they need to worry at all.

 

[Apollo]

...and this surprises anyone

 

[mugatu]

Not surprising, and luckily they didn’t say “and don’t make any more Star Wars fan films”.
I am no fan of Disney. It is no secret that I haven’t cared much for their last ST film. I don’t like them not moving forward with Tron 3, and I’ve even been pissed that they never made Condorman 2 (yes I’m that old, yes I liked the terrible first film). But they own all of these characters and IP. They let us all get away with doing what we do here.
Honestly, like I said, I’m surprised they didn’t go full Johnson and wreck this guy completely. I’m not happy about any of this, but it’s strange that this is being presented as further proof that Disney is all about the money. They always have been and even after monetizing this fan film, they are still very lenient with fans using their owned IP.

If anything, look at the positive aspects: Disney has been hit in the wallet by the expectations of SW not being met, so this action with this fan film should probably be considered second only to having your fan film christened by LFL and the Mouse as being official SW canon.

 

[Psab keel]

I don't think they worry about fan made things. They just want the money that it could/ does generate. Plus they want control of their intellectual property.

I know when George still owned Lucasfilm they went after a number of people to protect the IP but often it was from people making money off of it and not (at least to my knowledge) going after individual fans who made it for themselves and perhaps a friend or two. In fact I'm sure being the smart business man he is, he tried to walk a fine line because he knew that they were giving him free promotion when it came to marketing his movies to the masses.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Disney/ Lucasfilm may just go for the throat before long. I remember people being afraid of this kind of thing when Disney bought the company.

Disney buying Lucasfilm - page 2 - General Discussions - SW - FX-Sabers.com

As for the fan film itself becoming canon, not only would that likely never happen, I don't think it was that good to be honest.

 

[Joek3rr]

So his video was marked by Warner/Chappell, and Disney Music. This all about the use of the Imperial March.

 

[oblagon]

It's no surprise Disney is protecting their IP. Also $80,000 for a fan film? Based on his comments, he wanted to make money off this thing. Wouldn't be surprised if he had ads in the fan film on youtube in an effort to try and outsmart Disney to continue trying to make money off SW.

 

[The Searcher]

Yes, while he did use the imperial march, it wasn’t the actual recording from the soundtrack. He hired a composer to make his own cover, and I’m sure that has some protection under US copyright law. Also, he made it clear that the video was manually selected, which meant someone from Disney flagged the video themselves, not the Content ID bot trolling around and actually getting a hit.

 

[Joek3rr]

Yes, while he did use the imperial march, it wasn’t the actual recording from the soundtrack. He hired a composer to make his own cover, and I’m sure that has some protection under US copyright law. Also, he made it clear that the video was manually selected, which meant someone from Disney flagged the video themselves, not the Content ID bot trolling around and actually getting a hit.

Just Disney? In the screenshot he posted, there's quite a few claimants, including Warner/Chappell.

 

[The Searcher]

Just Disney? In the screenshot he posted, there's quite a few claimants, including Warner/Chappell.

Pretty sure that just means that those other companies have used fairly it at some point, and they get a partial rights attribution.
One time, I found a song with 7 different companies claiming it and it was also claimed by “11 Music Rights Socities”. Sometimes, I’m not sure Content ID knows what it’s doing.

 

[Halliwax]

This is why I am afraid to use music in the background of my videos. I don’t make any money off anything I have on YouTube and I never want to.

But it should would be nice to have a more artistic license and be allowed to do much more..

I don’t know how other Star Wars channels can use clips and quotes ripped right out of the films?

I am a subscriber to this channel. I’ve watched the making of this film

I wasn’t excited for it, I’m not a fan film person. After watching it I was just like “heh” I can’t believe the positive feed back it’s getting

I respect the channel, I just didn’t find the film that interesting.

If Disney did it to this film, it should do it to all the fan films.. or fan made 3 min skits.. and the prop guys channels, and the costume guys channel.. then the 501st won’t be allowed to do what they do..

This crap never ends.. what was that old saying again... oh I heard it once when I was a kid in school... we use to sing it... land of the? Land of the lost? No...

Land of the fence?

That’s right! Land of the fierce


..... all seriousness. What ever happened to the land of the free... everyone is suing

 

[oblagon]

Didn't Disney do this to other fans already? I remember a couple of people in the 501st had gotten letters for over advertising their kits.
Many do fine, but they make sure to stay under the radar and unknown except to a few of us.

 

[Tan Djarka]

I sort wonder what kind of agreement he had exactly. Was it based on a conversation or was there an actual written agreement? Perhaps, by way of some misunderstanding on his part, he violated the terms of that agreement?

I think there's more going on here than we know.

 

[Halliwax]

I sort wonder what kind of agreement he had exactly. Was it based on a conversation or was there an actual written agreement? Perhaps, by way of some misunderstanding on his part, he violated the terms of that agreement?

I think there's more going on here than we know.

Probably right.. 3 sides to a story. Mine yours and the truth

 

[Psab keel]

This is in large part why I never went live with trying to make my costumes into a full time business. I'm not about to risk MY hard work to have Disney or Lucasfilm step in and slap me with a cease and desist or worse yet a lawsuit. From a legal standpoint I wouldn't have much to protect me. None of us do.

While I'm on the filmmakers side in terms of him trying to make a fan film as a passion project, he still took a huge risk by using licensed characters, music, etc even if he did a cover of John Williams music, it's still licensed music. Plus I dont think he understands what a passion project is if he was hoping to be reimbursed for it. Often these kinds of things LOSE money and you do it for the love of the idea not for the money. If he could afford to spend that kind of dough he also took the risk of not seeing a dime in return because while the content may have been his idea, the settings and characters and music weren't.

Think about it though. The reason Disney went after it was BECAUSE there was serious money surrounding it's production and for a fan made film the production value was impressive. The reason most videos on YouTube using footage, music, and other media related to the films can get away with it and not get shut down is because it falls under the fair use act because they are reviews and don't collect ad revenue.

Does it suck that Disney monetized this guy's hard work? Yeah. We all take that risk though by making replicas of props, costumes and models of any licensed property. This was just on a scale large enough to be noticed by the mouse.

I know I keep harping on the content of the film but honestly what is the appeal of this short? Do people really enjoy it for its production value or are they invested in the story itself? It just comes across like a 20 minute version of the scene from Rogue One with Vader going berserk on the rebel troops. I loved that scene but you can't make an entire film out of that and expect it to be good.

Fan films are great in the sense that people are passionate enough about Star Wars to make their own stories but I have yet to see one that actually had a story to tell. Often, as is the case with this, it just has a great production but nothing to really say. With $80,000 at his disposal he couldn't have created his own original fictional story? That's what boggles my mind. I love Star Wars but with that kind of money I wouldn't want to spend it trying to play in someone else's sandbox. I'd build my own and call all the shots.