DaveP's Luke RotJ V2 Research/Development Thread 2021

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PoopaPapaPalps

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Also take note of Brandon's use of the word 'emitter' from that post. He refers to the entire nipple+emitter set up as the "emitter." When he removes it or plays with it, it moves as one stationary object to him. He also emphasises that there are no breaks in the entirety of the "emitter."

I've managed to replicate the "no breaks" persuasion in my replica but the nipple and emitter are definitely two separate pieces based on the other extant pieces in existence.

If there is a bearing in the emitter, it'd have to sit below the grub screws under the plate or else, if it sat too close to the surface, the bearing would catch the light in the space around the nipple and we'd see it. In earlier prototypes of my project, I had this feature but later omitted it for redundancy. It's a necessity for the Graflex stunt, based on Mouse Vader research thread, but applying bearings to the inside of the hilt and in the emitter yielded little to no difference than a hilt without them in my hilts.
 

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DaveP

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They are there. I pointed them out in the V2 thread a long time ago. You could tell they were different sides due to the paint.


View attachment 1474011 View attachment 1474012

From the man himself!

Your model is looking fabulous as well DaveP, looking forward to seeing where this goes!

Also take note of Brandon's use of the word 'emitter' from that post. He refers to the entire nipple+emitter set up as the "emitter." When he removes it or plays with it, it moves as one stationary object to him. He also emphasises that there are no breaks in the entirety of the "emitter."

I've managed to replicate the "no breaks" persuasion in my replica but the nipple and emitter are definitely two separate pieces based on the other extant pieces in existence.

If there is a bearing in the emitter, it'd have to sit below the grub screws under the plate or else, if it sat too close to the surface, the bearing would catch the light in the space around the nipple and we'd see it. In earlier prototypes of my project, I had this feature but later omitted it for redundancy. It's a necessity for the Graflex stunt, based on Mouse Vader research thread, but applying bearings to the inside of the hilt and in the emitter yielded little to no difference than a hilt without them in my hilts.
Morning everyone. Thanks Guys! This is fantastic. I'll take all this away and come back with an update soon. So they're definitely there. I just wanted to see them in the references to be sure.

The question now is when were they added?? :D I'd guess that they were added when converting for RotJ, as I'm fairly sure the plate doesn't spin in ANH.

Also, the fact that the nipple is orientated differently in a couple of those shots I posted (it could be the same in the middle and right ones) could suggest the nipple isn't tapped for them?

Probably added along with the gaffers tape to try and keep the whole thing static.

Anyway, thanks so much for the input guys. I'll get all this written up properly and come back with a proper update later.
 

Gerard2567

Active Member
I've got to say though, I'm impressed by your 3d model matching the photo with lens distortion and angle taken into account. Very few people can manage to do that, but you did it ever so perfectly. If this ever takes off, I'd be interested.
 

DaveP

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I've got to say though, I'm impressed by your 3d model matching the photo with lens distortion and angle taken into account. Very few people can manage to do that, but you did it ever so perfectly. If this ever takes off, I'd be interested.
Thank you! :) It really can be the trickiest part sometimes. Important to get right though, so it's worth spending the time to get the camera set up perfectly.
 

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PoopaPapaPalps

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Morning everyone. Thanks Guys! This is fantastic. I'll take all this away and come back with an update soon. So they're definitely there. I just wanted to see them in the references to be sure.

The question now is when were they added?? :D I'd guess that they were added when converting for RotJ, as I'm fairly sure the plate doesn't spin in ANH.

Also, the fact that the nipple is orientated differently in a couple of those shots I posted (it could be the same in the middle and right ones) could suggest the nipple isn't tapped for them?

Probably added along with the gaffers tape to try and keep the whole thing static...

They've been there since ANH. It might be hard to discern, but the grub screw is just seen poking out on camera left. The nipple is in a different orientation in relation to that grub as well. I'm sure there's a color version of this or a similar shot somewhere, but I can't find it.

1625680732000.png


A lot of this was covered some years back on the V2 proper thread that teecrooz linked to, but at 100+ pages of rampant speculation that lead to few discoveries, I will be the first to admit it's a lot to go through. :lol:

Within that thread, I forget who it was that did it, but someone pulled up the call sheets and shooting schedule for the day of the cut 'sandstorm opening sequence', where the photograph of the Graflex oversight was noticed, and they compared the timetables. It was figured that the timeframe for the V2, swapped in and gussed up, quite literally happened over a lunch break.

While Brandon leaves open the possibility that there may have been a different emitter with a nipple and emitter that moved independently, he's almost certain that it's this V2 in his possession for much of production on ANH. There were very few multiples for the film series, let alone the first. The details on the V2 he insists are intentional and that it was almost as-it-is now since production of the first film.
 
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DaveP

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They've been there since ANH. It might be hard to discern, but the grub screw is just seen poking out on camera left. The nipple is in a different orientation in relation to that grub as well. I'm sure there's a color version of this or a similar shot somewhere, but I can't find it.

View attachment 1474214

A lot of this was covered some years back on the V2 proper thread that teecrooz linked to, but at 100+ pages of rampant speculation that lead to few discoveries, I will be the first to admit it's a lot to go through. :lol:

Within that thread, I forget who it was that did it, but someone pulled up the call sheets and shooting schedule for the day of the cut 'sandstorm opening sequence', where the photograph of the Graflex oversight was noticed, and they compared the timetables. It was figured that the timeframe for the V2, swapped in and gussed up, quite literally happened over a lunch break.

While Brandon leaves open the possibility that there may have been a different emitter with a nipple and emitter that moved independently, he's almost certain that it's this V2 in his possession for much of production on ANH. There were very few multiples for the film series, let alone the first. The details on the V2 he insists are intentional and that it was almost as-it-is now since production of the first film.
Thanks so much for this. I did go over this thread, (believe it or not) and thought I'd managed to take in everything from it that I needed. Obviously not! :D

I'll put aside some time to go through it again from start to finish for sure. I realise I'm a little late to the party with the V2, and a lot of hard work has been done already by others. I'm determined to do as much as I can to do my own homework though, and not to stand on the shoulders of others too much.

This is interesting then, as I'm 100% certain that there are shots on the Death Star in ANH where the blade is spinning, but the emitter isn't. I was watching it again today frame by frame. this sequence in particular stands out:

Emitter_02_Angled 6.jpg


The markings on the emitter face make it very clear that the emitter isn't spinning, so can't be fixed to the bade/internal rod.

Maybe the set screws we're talking about here could be to secure the bearing (as thd9791 suggested)?? There does appear to be something sitting just bellow the surface, under the nipple, to my eyes. Perhaps its the bearing? Maybe the nipple doesn't go much deeper than the surface of the emitter face?

NIP.png


Definitely something there. Maybe another step in the nipple itself, but I'm inclined to believe it's something separate. It just looks to have slightly different qualities to me and even a more bronze-like colour than the aluminium? Maybe I'm seeing more than is there from such a grainy image?

I am definitely taking all this on board and will come back with a proper update soon that pieces all this together.

I made some progress on the mystery pommel mark earlier today too, but I'm not quite ready to post this. There have been a few discussions going on behind the scenes regarding the sharing of information. Without going in to too much detail, I'm going to need to strike a balance between the valuable discussion that is needed as part of the development process, and the sharing of of information that can (and has been) used by people who are too lazy and unscrupulous to do their own homework.

This puts me in a strange position, as I want to be as thorough and as open as possible, and LOVE discussing every little detail, but I will need to reign things in a little and keep some specific details a little closer to my chest for the time being.

I will hopefully manage to strike a balance in the way that I present my findings going forward.
 

thd9791

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Thats okay - do what you feel is best!

My theory: there was a bearing in there and the nipple, a 2 step thing, sat on top. Without the bearing, it just sits lower on the d/s, down in the newly free space in the emitter
 

PoopaPapaPalps

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Loose grub screws could also lead to the blade spinning by itself and the emitter not. I didn't really show it in this as I had to keep my hands free for demonstration but one could hold the emitter in place and have the thing spin without it going with it. I've done something similar before with an old prototype. This one had a bearing in the emitter.

 

DaveP

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Loose grub screws could also lead to the blade spinning by itself and the emitter not. I didn't really show it in this as I had to keep my hands free for demonstration but one could hold the emitter in place and have the thing spin without it going with it. I've done something similar before with an old prototype. This one had a bearing in the emitter.

So good! Awesome work! :love: and this is exactly how I picture it behaving. I'm wondering if they (the set screws) were there simply so that there was the option of locking everything up. But during filming they were loosened so that Sir Alec Guinness could hold the emitter and prevent it from spinning:

cropped.jpg
 

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Gerard2567

Active Member
They've been there since ANH. It might be hard to discern, but the grub screw is just seen poking out on camera left.

View attachment 1474214


When I attended a small lecture on how photoshop is used in forensics (specifically, Interpol) they always taught us to use filters find hidden details.

(Quite interestingly, it was even used on a glass pane that once a filter was applied, showed the reflection of a company location that was otherwise invisible in its original format)

1625903803903.png


The grub screw is actually aligned with the nipple screw and is in the centre of the photo.
 
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thd9791

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Nice! Ive done this by inverting colors and.. man im so glad you did this.. its right there! Which filter is this?
 

Gerard2567

Active Member
Nice! Ive done this by inverting colors and.. man im so glad you did this.. its right there! Which filter is this?
Edge detection, sobel detection, sobel filter, whatever you want to call it.

The filters work best on original unfiltered photos (Black and white can do).

Post filtered photos/screenshots usually have a destructive filter applied, which makes some shadows hard to render.
 
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steven giunta

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I remember reading an interview with obi one were he says the blade would spin two fast.so to slow it down he would keep his hand on the emitter controlling the speed. That is why he has that weird grip we’re one hand is holding emitter.
So good! Awesome work! :love: and this is exactly how I picture it behaving. I'm wondering if they (the set screws) were there simply so that there was the option of locking everything up. But during filming they were loosened so that Sir Alec Guinness could hold the emitter and prevent it from spinning:

View attachment 1474413
 

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DaveP

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When I attended a small lecture on how photoshop is used in forensics (specifically, Interpol) they always taught us to use filters find hidden details.

(Quite interestingly, it was even used on a glass pane that once a filter was applied, showed the reflection of a company location that was otherwise invisible in its original format)

View attachment 1475032

The grub screw is actually aligned with the nipple screw and is in the centre of the photo.
This is great. I've managed to do something similar and certainly looks to be the case. Although I'm seeing what could be something sticking out to the left too at 90 degrees to this one, as well is something on the right. Could it be that there were actually more than two. I'll be looking in to this a little more closely later today.
I remember reading an interview with obi one were he says the blade would spin two fast.so to slow it down he would keep his hand on the emitter controlling the speed. That is why he has that weird grip we’re one hand is holding emitter.
That's great, thanks! I'd love to find this interview and the exact wording as it could very well corroborate my theory. If the emitter is loose during filming and free to spin around the rod, any lateral pressure applied to the emitter would indeed create friction between the body section and the rod, slowing down the blade! Very interesting!

200w.gif


Thanks for all of your contributions to the discussion everyone. It's all very much appreciated!

I'll be posting a mammoth update later today covering everything from this week. All written out. I just need to finish up a few images I'd like to include. Lots of model changes and refinements. :)

All the best and MTFBWY

Dave
 

jun

Well-Known Member
Dave, brilliant work on the V2!

Any possibility of having the parts cast (as per the original) rather than machined? :D

With all the efforts that’s put into this, let’s get it to perfection!
 

jun

Well-Known Member

not meant to take anything away from you kind Sir!

but the way I see it, both you and Dave are serving different geographical locations (e.g benefits from custom tax and postage cost for us in the UK and vice versa).

Furthermore, the base model used are from different sources (e.g Dave using his own CAD model, etc).

Using the same production method as per original should be encouraged, and it does not infringed on any parties intellectual properties.

but what do I know, I’m just a very excited member of the community seeing all the great developments surrounding this prop! Good work everyone!
 

DaveP

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Dave, brilliant work on the V2!

Any possibility of having the parts cast (as per the original) rather than machined? :D

With all the efforts that’s put into this, let’s get it to perfection!
Hey Jun.

There is already an absolutely fantastic foundry cast version available here: Limited Run - As-Production-Made Obi-wan ANH Stunt Hilts (Foundry Cast Alu)

I'm in awe of this run and it is so VERY cool that it's being produced using the same methods as the original. There are a couple of reasons why I won't be going down this route myself, as much as I would love to.

As PoopaPapaPalps states on his run, the nature of the casting process can result an slight variations between each hilt. This is something that is to be expected, and as far as I'm concerned, it's one of the cool things about that run. For this run though, I'm hoping to get 100% consistency on my parts, for which I'm going to need more modern approach to machining the parts. That's not to say that Palps's aren't accurate. It's just an incredible amount of work to get each one perfect. Something I know he puts a lot of time and effort in to. My area of expertise is the 3D modelling side of things, and whilst I'm comfortable finishing and painting, foundry casting and "old school" metalworking techniques are just not available to me. I guess the second reason is cost. I'm hoping to be able to produce these within a more affordable price range. The foundry cast V2's that Palps produces are absolutely worth every penny (more if you ask me), as they are bespoke, hand crafted pieces. My run aims to get enough participants to allow me to have the parts manufactured at a price that is a bit more affordable.

I realise this isn't ideal, but for me to have them cast, and then to pay a machinist who would be willing to machine foundry cast pieces, just wouldn't be viable unfortunately (as much as I wish it was). I think the cost/price would just be too high.

It's a compromise, but I believe it's worth it in this particular case, as they will be machined to exceptionally high tolerances and therefore be an exact representation of my final models (and the original prop), and they will hopefully be within a price range that is affordable to as many people as possible too.

I hope this makes sense and is acceptable to people.

Update still coming soon (maybe tomorrow now as I'm still working on the artwork). :rolleyes:
 

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