Casting off production made pieces , cool or not?

[CustomCreations]

I see it like buying cd's or dvd's.
The makers/artists have sunk lots of money into producing the originals and promoting them.
You buy it from a shop and its therefore 'yours'.
You can copy it to put on your iphone, itunes, car stereo, laptop etc, and maybe even give it to your mates to 'borrow'. Personal use. Nothing more.

But you cant just go selling the copies you've made to make a bit of cash, that's wrong in most peoples eyes, and illegal.

Also, by not supporting the original makers, they are thus loosing money. The artists get less money back, and therefore may be less inclined to do it again.....

Of course, you could always do a cover version of the song on your own. You can sell that on, its your work, but if you're unlucky the original artist might sue you for breach of copyright.

If you suddenly find those lost episodes of Dr Who, you can hold onto them-they'd be worth a fortune. A few people might see them, but wow, what an exclusive.
Or, you could put them out for everyone. Your originals will still be worth something, but everyone gets a piece. Of course, they'll be copied on, you can bet your last dollar....


Its up to you which side you take, you just have to remember who your actions will be hurting.

 

[Art Andrews]

If everyone agreed not to support recasters...

The problem is, whose definition of recasting do we go with? Gino's definition? Your definition? My definition? The greatly feared and overzealous recasting police's definition?

The problem I see here is that some, Gino included feel their personal definition is the one RIGHT definition and that all others are wrong... and if that sounds like the start to a religious debate... well the results are the same as any religious debate... everyone's idea of what is "right" is different and you are unlikely to ever convince the other person.

Even if the RPF as a whole could sit down and hammer out definitive rules for "this is ok and this is not" we have no ability to enforce them throughout the hobby or convince others of our particular POV.

TMG, I am not saying you are wrong, in fact I think you are pretty well on target (although I do think a number of high dollar sellers would still demand high dollar recasters or not), it would be impossible to impose that view on the whole hobby or even effectively enforce that view on this site.

 

[Rylo]

Man, I love when someone saves me the trouble of typing.

I agree for the most part w/ Gino. :thumbsup

Anything cast off screen used original or production made, it is not only fine, but highly encouraged.
In fact, some people exclusively collect cast off/derived from original pieces.

As long as it is you who obtained/introduced that original item into the hobby populace.
Those 'hobby rights' stay with you unless you transfer/grant them to someone else.

If someone recasts your recast from that original item without your permission, that is the bad kind of 'recasting'.

*If you obtain a casting where it's origins are somewhat questionable, do some research here first before deciding whether or not it is okay. Ask around publicly so lots of others can see. Better safe than sorry.

In my opinion, if the original creator is part of this community but performed this work for either a studio or defunct licensee, then it is open season.
Honor amongst thieves code offers recast protection to members of the community because they have no legal recourse or any real world rights, whereas the studios or licensees do.

Just be mindful and extremely cautious in regards to who things are shared with, as not everyone subscribes to the honor amongst thieves code. Otherwise you may see your item recast and spread around faster than you can say scumbag.


.

 

[Gilmortar]

And it is sad that those who costume seems to be killing the fun not only for themselves, but for those who collect as well, with their acceptance of recasting and wanting to get good stuff as cheap as possible, regardless.

And yes... that was a blanket statement and not all costumers are bad... as well as not all collectors. Just seems to be a looser attitude with costumers about price for the best stuff and them wanting it as cheap as possible because they are gonna costume in it and damage it. But then why go for the good stuff if you don't have any respect about where it came from or willing to pay the price for the collectible prop piece? With troopers... the FX was good enough for the kids and general public... so... why the switch if it wasn't the costumer that wanted something better... and the only place to get it was the prop collectible community. So why screw them over?

Who was screwing them over?

I mean, I will say it...via costuming...I'm an elitest. I want the best. And I spend all of my paycheck on pieces because I want accuracy.

I'm just an Army Grunt who makes **** for a paycheck and it all goes to props/costuming. I own screen used pieces from SST and i love it. And I wear it...its built for that. I show it off too, but I wear it.

I just don't see the art of "collecting". I wanna play with it...I didn't get into props to make a museum, I got into because as a kid I wanted to BE Boba Fett. And then a love and passion for building things and making things came with it.

And it is sad that those who costume seems to be killing the fun not only for themselves, but for those who collect as well, with their acceptance of recasting and wanting to get good stuff as cheap as possible, regardless.

So I ask now...how are we killing the fun?

I am having GREAT fun making my costumes and building them and then wearing them. I don't like seeing people recast. It sucks. Someones hard work just cast asunder.

But the little guy in the world has dreams too. Just like GINO had his dreams of having the real deal TK or Vader...the little guys do too.

I'm glad you guys have excelled financially in life. But for this Oklahoma boy whose 25 and back and forth from the sandbox, sometimes I can only afford the cheapest available. I don't support recasting nor do repel it. But what is being asked is if its wrong to cast off a screen used piece. NO.

Gino....if I called Steve Sansweet right now, and he gave me a key to the Archives and said "cast WHATEVVVVER you want"...and I picked up a TK helmet...ANH...and cast it with sole intentions of selling it to those little people for 40 dollars a helmet...what then?

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Just a thought here ... the E11 .. there have been "licenced" replicas of this made but who actually owns the rights to this?? surely the arms makers who originally made the individual parts own the rights to them and putting a bit of plastic track and a small piece of flat bar do not make it a new item ( or we could all go out and get anyones replicas change 2% of it and call it our own), therefore from the original E11 to the latest fan made replica they are all replicas of products copywrited by a couple of arms makers etc so technically lucas inc cant own the rights to it and therefore cannot give out licences to reproduce them.
Does anyone get my point here ??:wacko

You need to learn about copyright before making such a post.

Individual pieces are owned by their individual manufacturers. The finished piece - the E11 - is owned by LFL - the way it looks and the way the pieces are put together - not the individual pieces. So... what's your point?

 

[g05ty]

Gino....if I called Steve Sansweet right now, and he gave me a key to the Archives and said "cast WHATEVVVVER you want"...and I picked up a TK helmet...ANH...and cast it with sole intentions of selling it to those little people for 40 dollars a helmet...what then?

Id be camped on your doorstep lol lollol:love

 

[GINO]

Instead, you went one step further and had to reference recouping your time and cash investment.

Welcome to the real world. I'm not just talking about me personally. I'm talking about everyone who personally invests heavily into having a prop replicated.

Your time? I've vacuformed helmets before... I know exactly how long that takes and the cost of the supplies to do it. You can't tell me that it costs you $500 of your time and supplies to cast one bucket. Not even close.

That is an extremely short sighted viewpoint.
The vacuum forming and supplies are not where this personal investment lies. In fact it is insignificant when compared to all the other factors.
Making connections, researching, financial investment to acquire prop x, etc.. This is where all the costs go. If I calculated an hourly rate for the time I've spent creating any of my replicas (from research to completion), it would be like .03c an hour. Maybe less. I try not to think about it.
What about time taken away from friends/family. These are personal sacrifices that have no real world cost, but are extremely valuable.
I don't know about you, but my time is worth something.

And your investment? As a collector, shouldn't the addition of the piece to your collection justify the investment and be reason enough for you to spend it?

Um, in most cases the only way people can afford or justify the investment is by having it recouped.

Or did you only buy it to in fact make money off it?

That's never been my bag and anyone who knows me personally can attest to that. I'm sure this is the motivation for some, but you can always tell the people who do it out of passion vs the $.


.

 

[g05ty]

You need to learn about copyright before making such a post.

Individual pieces are owned by their individual manufacturers. The finished piece - the E11 - is owned by LFL - the way it looks and the way the pieces are put together - not the individual pieces. So... what's your point?

well this was my point... kinda, they have rights over the look of it and the name? not the parts so if someone changes the way it looks slightly then it deviates from the "original" and is a customised sterling, does it then come outside of the LFL ownership?

Note: this was more a question then a statement i just didnt put it across very well :wacko

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Gilmore. I don't have the money to buy the screen used. I don't costume, but want display pieces. The licensed stuff is mostly junk, imo. What do I have left? Cast from screen used, but because people accept free-for-all recasting and saying it's no difference between making copies off a screen used suit and then someone recasting that suit... well... dries up my options. So... because of that I might as well just quit the hobby, as there's very little to nothing left for me here. Nothing new. Just the same old recast **** popping up left and right for all the "little guys" to buy and play happy trooping with.

The influx of new things, new cast from screen used things... is drying up and getting next to nothing and impossible to get because of that. So my hobby is squashed, just so cheap people can have fun with theirs. Great. I can see how I should just accept that and let you be happy with YOUR hobby, when you clearly don't care about mine.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Gino....if I called Steve Sansweet right now, and he gave me a key to the Archives and said "cast WHATEVVVVER you want"...and I picked up a TK helmet...ANH...and cast it with sole intentions of selling it to those little people for 40 dollars a helmet...what then?

You'd not be a recaster!!!!!!

 

[GINO]

TMG, you rock my world!

.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Shivers.

Someone just walked over my grave.

Seriously... if anyone got a free-pass to the archives to copy ANYTHING... by heavens... be smart and get the okay for the Sout helmet.

 

[g05ty]

Sorry if i get anyones back up here but... this whole argument seems to be that people stop casting their "original casts" because others recast their work and sell it cheaper, but if the original work was that much better in the first place the buyers who want the most accurate stuff will still pay for it.
BTW: Im not sticking up for recasters here this is just an obseration.

 

[GINO]

Ha!
Funny you mention that because I know of a scout helmet that came very close to being cast but then decided against it.
OUT OF FEAR OF BEING RECAST!! :cry

 

[Gilmortar]

Gilmore. I don't have the money to buy the screen used. I don't costume, but want display pieces. The licensed stuff is mostly junk, imo. What do I have left? Cast from screen used, but because people accept free-for-all recasting and saying it's no difference between making copies off a screen used suit and then someone recasting that suit... well... dries up my options. So... because of that I might as well just quit the hobby, as there's very little to nothing left for me here. Nothing new. Just the same old recast **** popping up left and right for all the "little guys" to buy and play happy trooping with.

The influx of new things, new cast from screen used things... is drying up and getting next to nothing and impossible to get because of that. So my hobby is squashed, just so cheap people can have fun with theirs. Great. I can see how I should just accept that and let you be happy with YOUR hobby, when you clearly don't care about mine.

No brother, I highly respect your collecting as a hobby. I just don't do it personally. Well, I do collect, but I collect in a means of function and not simply display.

And I realize alot of star wars licsensed material is junk. I know...ive seen it over the years as well. But I'm saying there is a definitive line between costuming and collecting as Gino has pointed out as well. But it isn't the costumers fault that its harder for you to get your hands on screen used pieces or recast pieces. In all seriousness blame the license holders who put out crap for 40 bucks that people still gobble up making more accurate pieces go up because real collectors want them.

 

[Gilmortar]

If I calculated an hourly rate for the time I've spent creating any of my replicas (from research to completion), it would be like .03c an hour. Maybe less. I try not to think about it.
[b}What about time taken away from friends/family. These are personal sacrifices that have no real world cost, but are extremely valuable.[/b]
I don't know about you, but my time is worth something.
.

And I guess that's were it lies Gino. I don't care about this hobby enough to throw away my time with my friends and family.

And my friends...they love this hobby as well...whether they collect or costume.

But my family. Spending all my time trying to get ahold of someone so I can just find more info on a prop or given the chance to hold it or purchase it or replicate it JUST ISN'T worth it. You make that sacrifice for yourself, no one forces you to research that and keep you chained to a desk away from your family.

It's like comparing researching a vader helmet to doing a year long tour overseas.

I've been there, and I was forced away from my family. Would I aptly volunteer to go back over? Not really, I don't like seeing my family and friends hurt. But if I have to I have to...I enlisted knowing that.

So Gino...I respect you, I really do. But that statement is somewhat pushing it.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Ha!
Funny you mention that because I know of a scout helmet that came very close to being cast but then decided against it.
OUT OF FEAR OF BEING RECAST!! :cry

Yes. Heard about that one - may be the same. But alas. Didn't happen.

So... that's what happens. And yes, Art... my way is not perfect... but at least I took a stand and stuck with it as best I can. For the most part there is an agreement about recasting other people's offerings... it's just the technicalities that are up for debate so often. There are many valid points from everyone, even those I don't agree with... but the problem arises when the actions of some, dries up options for others. That's where people need to work together to find a common ground where neither groups actions hurts or impacts the other group in a negative way.

 

[GINO]

Listen to me for a moment. This is important.

If there wasn't a concern about upsetting a majority of people (as I believe that recaster supporters make up the majority of the community), I'm certain that we could easily define recasting into black and white areas for the community.
It would be difficult and painful, but doing the right thing, the fair thing, is not always the popular or easy thing.

.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

No brother, I highly respect your collecting as a hobby. I just don't do it personally. Well, I do collect, but I collect in a means of function and not simply display.

And I realize alot of star wars licsensed material is junk. I know...ive seen it over the years as well. But I'm saying there is a definitive line between costuming and collecting as Gino has pointed out as well. But it isn't the costumers fault that its harder for you to get your hands on screen used pieces or recast pieces. In all seriousness blame the license holders who put out crap for 40 bucks that people still gobble up making more accurate pieces go up because real collectors want them.

But since I can see a very clear trend from what is going on in costuming parts of the hobby directly affecting cast from screen used pieces - since licensees will NEVER offer as accurate as I want - then sorry... I put the blame where I see it.

 

[WebChief]

That is an extremely short sighted viewpoint.
The vacuum forming and supplies are not where this personal investment lies. In fact it is insignificant when compared to all the other factors.
Making connections, researching, financial investment to acquire prop x, etc.. This is where all the costs go. If I calculated an hourly rate for the time I've spent creating any of my replicas (from research to completion), it would be like .03c an hour. Maybe less. I try not to think about it.
What about time taken away from friends/family. These are personal sacrifices that have no real world cost, but are extremely valuable.
I don't know about you, but my time is worth something.

Here's the rub though...

No one makes you do that research. You do it because (I'll assume) you enjoy it. Its your passion. You enjoy knowing that you have the most accurate pieces possible for your time and money. That's your HOBBY.


Now, if you're going to tell me that someone should turn around and invest in your hobby because they'd like a casting of something you have. I don't see how the two connect. Sure, you should get paid, this isn't charity. But how is your helmet worth hundreds more than say an AP just because of a bump here or there?