Casting off production made pieces , cool or not?

For my own work, I subscribe to something similar to the CC/GPL/etc... world. "Opencasting" we called it. Basically, like a Creative Commons type licenses, the idea is that you are welcome to do whatever you want with my props. Cast, modify, resell, whatever. If anyone asks, be honest about the origins. You have permission, why hide it?
Your way is your way - nothing wrong with your way, but others have their way and there should be enough respect for both.

You gave permission for people to recast your items, sometimes when people ask to recast those who are most verbal in this thread they may get a yes - the thing is... they don't even ask, they just do, expecting that the guy is okay with it and if not, too bad for him.

And as you said... be honest about the origin... which most recasters aren't - they lie about the origin. Again... both you and the guy who didn't give his permission about recasting his wares boils down to simple respect of the source, which many recasters simply doesn't have.
 
This tread got kind of nasty, lot of slight insults people are throwing. I wanted to add something that might HELP new members.

If you are unsure about casting, privately ask a MOD or one of the very knowledgeable veteran members. Don't be afraid to ask a stupid question in private, they will always help you, no matter how silly your question might be.

For instance, I was unsure if making a cast of Gandalf's Glamdring sword for "stunt" use in a play was considered casting. Most people said it's no biggie, some said casting it was a no-no.

Just ask a MOD, as one of the trusted veterans in Private if you are unsure. Remember, it never hurts to ask a question. "Hey, if I cast this sword for stunt use am I going to get banned?" Thats a valid question, while some might consider it stupid. Who cares? Better to ask than to have huge problems.

Anyway, I hope that helps maybe one or two newbies!
 
This tread got kind of nasty, lot of slight insults people are throwing. I wanted to add something that might HELP new members.

If you are unsure about casting, privately ask a MOD or one of the very knowledgeable veteran members. Don't be afraid to ask a stupid question in private, they will always help you, no matter how silly your question might be.

For instance, I was unsure if making a cast of Gandalf's Glamdring sword for "stunt" use in a play was considered casting. Most people said it's no biggie, some said casting it was a no-no.

Just ask a MOD, as one of the trusted veterans in Private if you are unsure. Remember, it never hurts to ask a question. "Hey, if I cast this sword for stunt use am I going to get banned?" Thats a valid question, while some might consider it stupid. Who cares? Better to ask than to have huge problems.

Anyway, I hope that helps maybe one or two newbies!


That's the best and clear advise from the whole thread. Because knowing is half the battle.
 
goldenage,

I have argued your exact points for a very long time.

You are right that there is no "real world" moral high ground in this hobby. The REPLICA in replica props essentially means the theft of intellectual property rights if nothing else, regardless of any casting/recasting issues.

Once that is accepted, a number of posters, Gino included, make a good argument about creating rules within the constructs of the hobby (realizing that in reality there is no true moral high ground) that are to the benefit of most replica prop collectors. The problem is that the "thieves" can't all agree to the rules and the community is spread out among so many different online sites and so many countries, all with slightly different (some vastly different) takes on what is acceptable and what is not.

While you will certainly find varying thoughts on the matter even within this community, I think Too Much Garlic pretty much laid out most member's feelings about what is "ok" within the community and what is not. With that being said, anyone has to realize that outside the community and within the "real world" none of this would be considered ok and none of the "this is ok but that is not" would matter.
 
Well, in the land of Xena Props, we have a problem where people try to sell replicas as originals...and that is because xena props were so easy to get a hold of when the show ended, so it makes it easy to believe they are selling the real thing. soooo xena fans would not be too happy to have someone cast something from an original prop. now with other props such as star wars i can understand how rare it would be to own an original, making it not sooo risky to cast it.
 
Your way is your way - nothing wrong with your way, but others have their way and there should be enough respect for both.

Definitely. That's why I don't run around recasting other peoples' stuff... it's not adherence to our pirates' code, it's just one-on-one respect for other people.

I just want to point out that not EVERYONE who disagrees with the unofficial rules of the land is a scumbag recaster. There are more flavors out there than chocolate and vanilla.
 
I disagree.
Either you subscribe to honor amongst thieves or you support recasting. It's very black and white.

If honor amongst thieves is black, and recaster supporting is white, give me an example of grey and I'll show you how it really is white.


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I disagree.
Either you subscribe to honor amongst thieves or you support recasting. It's very black and white.

If honor amongst thieves is black, and recaster supporting is white, give me an example of grey and I'll show you how it really is white.


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OHHHH so its gotta be about being white only huh??
 
I disagree.
Either you subscribe to honor amongst thieves or you support recasting. It's very black and white.

Well, this isn't the first time we've disagreed. You think that the community needs these codes to thrive. I think the community needs to be tipped up on end and shaken around a bit to sort itself out and really be a community.

I don't support recasting out of respect for the individual preferences of the artists in question. In fact, on our local 501st boards I'm usually one of the first people to speak up about why folks shouldn't recast other makers' work.

I may think the artists in question are being dumb, but it's not my call to judge the intelligence of their choices.

I sort of think of it like a risk assessment in the IT world. What could happen to me, and what is the damage if it does? If the damage is high enough, put controls in place to protect against it. If the damage is low, take the risk as a cost of doing business and move on.

So, my risk assessment is that If someone recasts something I made, I am not hurt at all by it.

Thus, I have no reason to get agitated over something that doesn't hurt me. There are so many more important things in the world to worry about.

The logic behind that assessment:

I don't make any money off the sales of my props, so I don't lose there.

I don't make a conscious effort to restrict where my stuff goes, but I also don't announce big public runs. I have neither the time nor desire to make 500 of any given thing.

When I do a "run" of something, it's usually within a few dollars of cost. I get paid to work. Hobbies are fun. I don't expect to be paid for fun.

I have no significant out of pocket expense to make the thing, so nothing to recoup.


This is a new experiment that's working out really well...

I've started to collect donations to help with my costs. For example, on the Animated DC-15 I'm working on now, I asked people to chip in for silicone to mold it. I had 15 or so people give me $20 each.

That paid for all my mold making supplies. When the mold is done, they'll each pay for the resin to pour in it.

We all get our props, with minimal out of pocket expense for a bunch of people instead of one person fronting it.

That to me is a community. People trusting and helping each other, so that we all end up better.

I'm not trying to establish a reputation as the top anything.

When I see a picture of someone and say "oh, I sculpted that", I don't really care if I slushed it or not. It's still my creation, it was just mass produced elsewhere.

Result

To me, as a propmaker, I don't find recasting damaging to my hobby at all. It would be like being offended by the existence of the armadillo. It's so far from relevant to what I do that there's just no need to care.

This is obviously very important to you. I respect that your preference as an individual. I think it's silly, but I respect it.

What I don't respect is the notion that people are either with you or your enemy. It would be fantastic if the world was so simple, but it's not. So, I speak up to the contrary because if you are here saying that the world is black and white and no-one contradict you, the readers of the board have no reason to believe you are not correct.

At least this way, the readers can see several people providing their opinions in a polite, adult manner, and can make their own decisions based on it.

In the end, I'm no more likely to try to buy something from you than you are to sell it to me. We travel in different worlds.

You've made it very clear that you have no respect for costumers, and I've made it very clear that I could care less what brand of duct tape was used to hold the foam in Boba's helmet.

So being blacklisted by your world probably won't change my life at all. I have no reason to be intimidated by the notion of getting kicked out of a party that I wasn't invited to in the first place.

But, ultimately, we're both here doing our thing, and to me, that alone proves that there are a variety of takes on the hobby.
 
But you are still different than what GINO and others are doing... you gave your okay to be copied... and in that instance, anyone copying you will NOT be labeled recasters by the community because you already okay'ed it.
 
But you are still different than what GINO and others are doing... you gave your okay to be copied... and in that instance, anyone copying you will NOT be labeled recasters by the community because you already okay'ed it.

I understand that.

My argument is that GINO is saying that if I don't agree with his view, I'm supporting scumbags.

I passionately disagree with his view. I think honor amongst thieves is just a way for people to justify how their own shady dealings are better than someone else's shady dealings.

I think all artists should subscribe to my free-for-all view. All recasting arguments in the world would end immediately if people just agreed to not care. And I suspect most of the recasting would go away if you could get an original for less than the cost of making a recast. But that's a side story...

My real goal here is that I'm trying to make the point that I have a stance that is neither agreeing with his honor amongst thieves, nor supporting people stealing from each other.

Essentially, I'm trying to prove the existence of grey.
 
And failing miserably.

It is clear to me that you have absolutely no clue what it takes to acquire and introduce into the hobby populace anything derived from screen used.
Unless you are independently wealthy, your approach would simply not work.
You have no idea of the personal investment or sacrifices necessary to pull it off successfully.

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And failing miserably.

Care to elaborate? The Bravo! PMs I'm getting would argue otherwise ;)

Seriously though... I should probably just back off. I think I've said all I can without getting into one of those famous RPF circular debates.

The words are out there, people can take 'em or leave em. For now I'll just enjoy my nice new seat at the blacklist table.
 
So being blacklisted by your world probably won't change my life at all. I have no reason to be intimidated by the notion of getting kicked out of a party that I wasn't invited to in the first place.

That's how recaster supporters think.
It doesn't effect you because you don't give a split, but it dramatically effects others.

And BTW, no one is invited. Take some initiative and personal responsibility.

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Care to elaborate? The Bravo! PMs I'm getting would argue otherwise ;)
The words are out there, people can take 'em or leave em. For now I'll just enjoy my nice new seat at the blacklist table.


I'm not surprised, there a multitudes of recaster supporters out there.
But guess what. They all want what we have and no one is giving it to them.
In my opinion if you are a newbie, I almost just assume that you are one until I see otherwise.


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It is clear to me that you have absolutely no clue what it takes to acquire and introduce into the hobby populace anything derived from screen used.
Unless you are independently wealthy, your approach would simply not work.
You have no idea of the personal investment or sacrifices necessary to pull it off successfully.
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Well, making judgments about what can or cannot afford and what one knows about pricing isn't a great idea.

While I'm not independently wealthy, my wife and I are both quite well compensated at our day jobs.

This is going to be INCREDIBLY tacky, but since we're going down this road anyway... If I recall correctly, the last Stormtrooper helmet from Christies sold for around $24K.

My annual bonus at work is a bit more than that, and last year I exercised much more than that in stock options.

So yes, I could afford to go there if I so desired. Since I'm just a costumer, having a screen used TK is of no interest to me. It's not like I'd wear it to a convention.

This isn't about screen used vs. not though, this is about the ethics of the community. You are talking about the right and wrong of recasting, not having money or not having money.

If something is 100% black and white, right and wrong, the price tag shouldn't matter.

It should be just as wrong to recast a fan sculpted Farscape pistol as it is a screen used Vader. Wrong knows no price tag.
 
Well, making judgments about what can or cannot afford and what one knows about pricing isn't a great idea.

I never made judgements. I just said that unless one was independently wealthy...

This is going to be INCREDIBLY tacky, but since we're going down this road anyway... If I recall correctly, the last Stormtrooper helmet from Christies sold for around $24K.

My annual bonus at work is a bit more than that, and last year I exercised much more than that in stock options.

Well you're certainly in a far greater financial position than I am and probably most others.
Unfortunately, most people who acquire rare pieces cannot do it out out pocket and without some sort of financial incentive. It's just not realistic for 99% of people in this hobby.


Since I'm just a costumer, having a screen used TK is of no interest to me. It's not like I'd wear it to a convention.

I've noticed that costumers tend to have the most difficulty with the concept of honor amongst thieves. I'm sure that would be an interesting topic to explore sometime.



IIt should be just as wrong to recast a fan sculpted Farscape pistol as it is a screen used Vader. Wrong knows no price tag.

It IS just as wrong. That's what I (and others) have been saying all along.


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