Captain America Shield Star Dimension

Discussion in 'Marvel Costumes and Props' started by Valor, Oct 25, 2011.

  1. Valor

    Valor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    One of the things I really analyzed when I did my shield was the dimensions of the rings and star. I couldn't get my hands on the actual prop, so I sought out the best images I could find. As a vendor for a movie promotion, I was able to get some hi-res images of the shield. From a really straight on shot that (based on my measurements) it seemed to have a 10-inch blue circle. Other images I have since found seems to confirm this to within a half inch. As I've been making stars for people I have been asked to make a few different sizes, many as small as 8-inch stars.

    Now, I'm not trying to insult anyone else's prop, or claim they are inaccurate or less awesome, but I expect a more rigorous debate from the RPF. I've seen ridiculously exhaustive debates about obscure dimensions of Star Wars props, but little discussion of the dimensions of this prop.

    I attached a couple images to illustrate my point. One is the un-altered image of the movie shield that shows a 10-inch blue circle. The second image is an altered file to show how much the look of the shield changes with an 8-inch circle and star. I mean, it REALLY changes the look of the shield to something obviously different from the movie shield.

    Again, I mean no disrespect to anyone. If you love the look of the smaller blue circle, rock on. But I thought with so much shield discussion lately this would be a good discussion.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2011
  2. Verbal21

    Verbal21 Active Member

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    Perfect timing for this thread, Valor. I just got my shield earlier today and as much as I love it, I just couldn't help but stare at how small I felt my center star was. Here it is
    [​IMG]

    I think I'm gonna start on another shield and will be going with a larger center. I was thinking 9.5" myself, but that 10" one looks spot on to how I think it looks in person. Now, I just have to alter my outer rings as well.
     
  3. SonofJorEl

    SonofJorEl Well-Known Member

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    Wish this thread existed before I ordered my shield! Yep--the 10 looks to be about right. I guess I just assumed the vendor that made my shield knew the correct sizes. He did offer to do different sizing if I wished--his standard had an 8 in center. Oh well---I will still be proud to have it in my collection. :)
     
  4. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I tried to mention earlier that 8" looked small, but I got accused of being a troll for doing so.

    Based on a 26" diameter shield, the center circle is somewhere between 9.5 and 10". I hope to get real measurements quite soon.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2011
  5. Verbal21

    Verbal21 Active Member

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    so are the ones you do 9 3/4"?
     
  6. Valor

    Valor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I do them whatever size people ask for. Mostly 8 or 10 inch. But I think that is being driven by what size circles are on the blank shield they order.
     
  7. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Some more useful info:

    The movie utilized 6 different sized shields, from around 24" to just over 26" depending on the scene. So there are plenty of size shields that can work and be considered accurate.

    However, with each of these, the star is always about the same proportion. So the ones closer to 26" diameter have arund 10" stars, and the smaller ones have smaller stars.

    I've actually had 2 different sized centers stars so far, and two different total outside diameters so far, and I think I've settled on what I think is the most average "film like" in my opinion.

    But, I have done an 8" star for one person now, and a few other sizes. So what ever the folks want is right. :)
     
  8. galmando

    galmando Member

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    I always thought the centre on some of the shields I saw in here were small, they still look awesome though!
     
  9. TheCap

    TheCap Member

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    the 8" star were my dimensions, nothing more nothing less. i also agree after getting it, it was rather small, but oh well, live and learn. since then my dimensions became the norm from said vendor, no idea how that happened but it did.

    I'm just going to refrain from making a comment about the troll part.

    lastly, to each their own. i love my shield, as im sure others love theirs. will some of the people with those dimensions make another shield? maybe, maybe not. it's up to them to do so, until someone gets their hands on the actual prop and posts real pictures not photoshopped the true dimensions will always be ??? for all we know it could be an 11" center who knows. in the end, does it honestly matter that much? it doesnt mean that mine or captainrossi's or verbals or valors, or even your's chris are better than the other persons. they're all different, minus yours chris since you're doing runs, so there will be lots of yours floating around, which is cool, you can always say hey i made that for soandso. for the rest of us that arent trying to make a profit, we can say hey. this is my shield and i made it my way. isn't that all that matters in the end? maybe... maybe not...

    when i joined this forum, i never thought there would be so much uppityness here. i thought it would be a good place to help people and give people information,and get help / information. not belittle what someone has done, there are flaws with everything in this world so why discuss it? i dunno maybe i'm reading to much into this, but it seems like if a shield doesnt fit the "status quo" it's not right.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011
  10. Valor

    Valor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Good point on there being several size shields used in the movie. The shot I have was provided by Marvel of the actual shield, but I don't know for sure the size of that shield. So it could be 24 or 26 inches. So at that point, accuracy comes to be more about the proportion of the center star to the remainder of the shield.

    While everyone is entitled to their own preference for shield dimensions, I still think a discussion of screen accuracy is warranted and should be welcomed. Whether one adheres to that screen accuracy is their choice and no one else's. Who would belittle another person's prop because they don't think it's accurate enough? Let's move beyond that sort of thing.

    So ... I tend to agree with Chris ... although the engineer in me is tempted to calculate the likely ring and star dimensions for both a 24 and 26 inch shield ... The rings seem to be a simple 1/3 of the remaining space after you consider the size of the star. On mine I think each ring was about 2.5" inches ... but I'm not sure.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011
  11. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yeah, the point of the conversation is not to belittle or bash anyone, it never was. The point is to discuss screen accuracy. And yes, screen accuracy is very important to many people here and it does matter. With the pictures available today, even the ones available back almost a year ago, you can take measurements and ratios off of them. My calculations seem to put the ratio of the star to outer diameter at .38. Meaning the star is 38% the diameter of the shield. So, if you have a 26" shield, your star is about 10", if you have a 24" shield, your star is alittle over 9". Now, this also depends on if your "flat" diameter is 26", or if your "curved" diameter is 26", lol, a whole other story that I had some issues with in drawings for the shop. Also, the rings on the back are another whole different story. ... lots of detail in this movie prop, it's definitely a work of art. :)

    There also seems to be aura in some of these shield threads that it is somehow bad or improper or an idea of "ripping people off" for someone to get paid for the time, effort, materials, research, etc they put into making items for others. Not sure why. If people put in the work, they should be paid the value of that work.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011
  12. Talisen

    Talisen Sr Member

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    Consider, as well, that the shield is curved and that the star in those head on shots would be closer to the camera, thus making it appear proportionally larger.
     
  13. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    yep, a very good point. Which is why you want to look at several different angles and farther back shots.
     
  14. TheCap

    TheCap Member

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    here's the thing, my shield and also my dimensions are not movie accurate, in which i've stated numerous times. nor are any of the shields really on here if you want to get technical about it. so why really bring up a discussion about a star size that honestly doesnt matter. Captain America has used numerous shields all varying from different designs, how is mine any different. if i was calling mine movie accurate then sure, it could be up for debate, but i think the only person thats claiming movie accuracy is you chris, am i right? i also don't think anyone that has the 8" center has claimed movie accuracy either. so again whats the point? those of us with the 8" center can see it's smaller than it should be, but none of us have claimed ours was movie accurate either. and hence, if those of us with the 8" center arent claiming movie accurate "status" on our shields then the discussion just falls more on hey why is yours wrong!
     
  15. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    You seem to be taking this personally instead of the intent, which is to try to discuss what is movie accurate, and what isn't. My apologies if I am misunderstanding you there.

    I believe the star proportion on my shields is movie accurate. However, the back of my shields are not movie accurate (that will be the next run starting in a few days) and the star is still mounted on top, rather than embedded, which isn't movie accurate either.

    Again, the purpose here, and before, was to discuss what is movie accurate and what isn't. The purpose is not to point fingers at anyone, claim anyone is wrong, or bash other's designs.
     
  16. shenphong

    shenphong Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    There was a shop that gave me an estimate for a blank spun shield at $185. Their measurements were:

    26” diameter shield with grooves at 20” diameter, 14” diameter and 8”
    diameter with ¼” center hole.

    I'm awaiting mine to come in (its currently in transit from across the US) and while this is based off the 8" circle, its certainly a great deal especially for a lot of those who do not have the space or sources to make there own.

    Having said that, I do also like the look of a bit larger star on the shield as well and contacted them about purchasing one with a 10" center circle. They were also open to me providing them with new dimensions, which I had begun speaking to them about a day ago. I've since then, measured 26", 20.625", 15.375", and 10" as the new measurements. For those interested in creating a shield and possibly working from the 8" diameter center, it changes the measurements very noticeably. Not sure if my measurements are correct (I'm a psychologist darn it, not a math maj:lolr) but it does help with the look of screen accuracy, something we can't exactly nail down without examining or getting the actual shield dimensions.

    But for those looking to go the 10" star route, can anyone confirm my measurements? It certainly looks like if someone wanted to place a 10" center circle on a shield with the dimensions for 8" it'd look very wonky, so a lot of people would be forced to start from a new standpoint. All in all, there are dozens of different Iron Man helmets dozens of Thor Hammers, adding more Cap Shields into the mix just makes it more fun.
     
  17. Verbal21

    Verbal21 Active Member

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    ^those are very close to the scale adjustments I made as well using the 8" center shield measurements as my base. I'm also curious to see someone confirm that or roughly be around the same ballpark
     
  18. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Hey, those dimensions seem good. Are they "flat" dimensions, or dimensions down the curve of the shield? I am assuming they are flat. :)

    Yeah, Accurate Metal Spinning in Miami? Those guys are fantastic, and they do a great job. They do the bases for my shields as well.
     
  19. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I can't absolutely confirm them, since I haven't measured a real on in hand yet, but from my calcs based off the images, they are accurate in my opinion, with the tolerances of my calcs.
     
  20. shenphong

    shenphong Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Those are based off the flat dimensions from what I've been told. yes it is from Miami, I contacted several shops in the bay area here in CA and they wanted nearly $300! So this was a great deal, along with purchasing valor's star, this would be fantastic for any builder out there who wants to go with either a 10" star or 8" star, I'm trying to help them get a basis for both builds. They are charging me extra for the new dimensions, but I figure it'll help others in the long run. I currently have 4 IM helmets, lol now just need 4-5 different Cap shields.
     
  21. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Btw, TheCap, I've said this before, and I'll say it again, your shield by far has the sweetest paint job over any Captain America shield ever made, including the actual movie ones in my opinion. It's just superb and all sorts of awesome in every way.
     
  22. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    awesome, yeah, they charge more because they have to do a new set up. That is typical. Yeah, spinning shops use to be common, and now they are very hard to come by. Those guys in Miami, and one other shop in Alabama have pretty reasonable prices and both are run by great people.
     
  23. Verbal21

    Verbal21 Active Member

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    cool. btw, I sent you a pm last night, just wondering if you got it?
     
  24. Valor

    Valor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Hmmm, simple math maybe? if the shield is 26" that leaves 6 equal divisions for the rings (3 rings on each side of the 10 inch center). So, for a 26" shield with a 10" center, take 26-10=16. 16 divided by 6 = 2.66. That would mean each ring is 2.66" wide. For a 24" shield with a 10" center (like mine) each ring would be 2.33" wide. ... Can you believe I failed High School math??

    Those working off a diameter that would mean a carved ring would exist on a 26" shield at 10" 15.32" and 20.64" .... if you're really picky :)
     
  25. StevenRogers84

    StevenRogers84 Sr Member

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    May I please ask who made this shield? It's a beauty.
     
  26. shenphong

    shenphong Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    For those looking at a 9 3/4" inner circle. I was thinking with a 26" diameter, you can do outer ring 3", middle ring 2-3/4", and a inner ring 2-1/2" from the 9 3/4" circle. Still on debate between 9.5" to 10" star, I really wish I could just get a hold of a screen 26" version lol.
     
  27. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Hey, just looked, I just replied :)
     
  28. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Keep in mind, since the shield is not flat, this would lead to the out ring being wider due it being at a steeper angle to the flat dimension. However, it's pretty close.
     
  29. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    If those are flat dimensions, I wouldn't make the outer ring that much wider. It appears the rings are really close in width, if not the same. So from a top "flat" view, the outer ring will appear to have the shortest width.

    I think for the 26" the most accurate star size is just about directly inbetween 10 and 9.75.
     
  30. TheCap

    TheCap Member

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    well sure why wouldnt i take it kind of personally it's my design thats being ridiculed, i dont see anyone saying that your 9.5" center is off so yes i do take some offense to the topic. and if the purpose is not to point fingers or say who is or isnt wrong, then why was the 8" the focus? and not just a general assumption of anything less than 10" see the difference?

    guess i'm getting to sensitive in my old age lol *gotta make sure the wife doesnt see that comment*
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011
  31. TheCap

    TheCap Member

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    tyvm, i appreciate it, i guess the saying rings true, you get what you pay for lol.
     
  32. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    lol.

    Again, no need to take it personally, it's not an attack on you. The 8" was brought up because it was questioned wether it was accurate to the movie design, because the debate is "what is movie accurate". That was all. As you pointed out, you never claimed it was accurate, but the person who started this thread is just trying to figure out what is accurate, and that is the debate.
     
  33. Zombie Killer

    Zombie Killer Sr Member

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    I am actually gald this subject is being brought up. I would like to get one of these sheilds eventually and screen accuracy is THE deciding factor for me. I have not followed any of the other build threads. Honestly i am not a big super hero fan BUT after watching Captain America the other night this is the first that really sparks my interest. Very cool costume. What this thread needs is screencaps of the different size shields used throughout the movie. Does he have a bigger one when he is holding it in his hand and a smaller one when it is on his back? Are the stars proportioned the same regardless of shield size or are there some sheilds with smaller stars and some with bigger stars? Excuse my ignorance but this seems to be the place to ask rather than anyones build thread.
     
  34. Valor

    Valor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    GAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!! STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT !

    Please Chris and Cap ... I like you both. You both brilliant builders .... And you both have insight to share. Pleeeease don't turn on each other in my thread!!!! I was afraid to start this thread for exactly this reason. Please, .... pretty please lets all talk nice.
     
  35. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    lol, exactly, if you read my posts, I am trying to explain that this is not what what the thread is about. No one should be taking anything personally. This is a search for screen accuracy.
     
  36. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    It appears the magnetic ones on his back are actually flatter, less domed, than the hero ones or the stunt ones. The CG ones seem to be the most domed, like the one that stuck in the doorway. The stunt rubber ones seem to be the smaller ones, but these are educated guesses from watching the film, behind the scenes stuff, and talking to folks who were on set and held them in person. The star appears to be the same proportion no matter what size the shield is.
     
  37. TheCap

    TheCap Member

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    so i was thinking, wouldnt the screen prop be made from steel? since aluminum has no magnetic properties it would have to be steel right? or i guess they could mount something on the prop that was metal so that the magnet worked
     
  38. Valor

    Valor Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I doubt it's steel. Weight would be an issue. Although the idea that my saucer sled is even more screen accurate is kinda appealing :)
     
  39. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    They actually put some neodymium magnets on the underside of an aluminum and plastic shield, and some on the belt. They also left the arm straps off. No steel shield.
     
  40. Zombie Killer

    Zombie Killer Sr Member

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    Here is an insteresting shot. When looked at straight on the shadows make it look like the center and middle ring is raised but not in the side view.

    [​IMG]
     
  41. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    that is very interesting. I noticed it the first time I saw the movie on opening night. To me, this kinda confirmed that the hero shields in the movie were in fact separate piece rings that interlocked and tied together with the back bracket. That has been verified finally. Since these rings are separate, they can be slightly off angle from one another, giving this look from the front, yet looking flush from the side.
     
  42. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    btw, going back to one of the earlier size points. There are some scene's where Cap is fighting and do a lot of moving or running with the shield on his back. It appears this shield may be one of the smaller 24" diameter ones. Who ever mentioned this earlier was correct.
     
  43. Zombie Killer

    Zombie Killer Sr Member

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    From what i saw last night the small one has a thinner inner ring. The big one he used at the begining where it is unpainted. This one also has a different handle. Also at the first raid it looks like a big painted one. The small one seems to be used the rest of the movie because he is either fighting or wearing it on his back. So i get 3 different ones. An unpainted big one with metal handles, a painted big one with battle scortches and a smaller painted one with scortches or battle damage. There were probably more made though.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  44. Chris Fields

    Chris Fields Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    There were tons made, over 30 I believe, maybe more, and 6 different sizes. :eek
     
  45. Verbal21

    Verbal21 Active Member

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    thanks:thumbsup I got the shield spun from AMS in Florida, where everybody gets their shields from and the paintwork was from our very own member, Phizzle. and that Valor's awesome center star's in the middle.

    mind if I use these measurements as well? I'm having them spin me up a new one shortly
     
  46. TheCap

    TheCap Member

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    ah, i figured one may have been steel, since Evans complained about weight in one of his interviews. also i totally agree its 3 or 4 seperate interlocking pieces, i've shown a lot of those stills to a company here, and they also agree. they also said they could make me one 100% accurate to the movie shield for mmmm about $1k lol. i love when they do that mmmm figuring up a price in their head stuff, you just know an ouch # is about to hit you in the face.
     
  47. shenphong

    shenphong Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Please feel free to. I don't believe they should be charging you extra but I'm not sure. My numbers were taken after talking back and forth with members through PM and through the thread so if anyone would like to use them, feel free to. Currently, I have one shield with an 8" center coming in that I'll do a full white, blue, red paint job for a comic book version and one 10" center for a movie version. There needs to be as many varieties of these shields as IM helmets in my book, now just need to work on a strapping system for one. Luckily alu. welding is not a problem since I do custom motorcycle frame work as a part time side job:lol
     
  48. Verbal21

    Verbal21 Active Member

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    yeah, anything other than TheCap's original dimensions and they charge more.
     
  49. shenphong

    shenphong Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Aw lame, I gave them my numbers too. They charged me $185 though and from what I've been told, people were originally getting charged $220 so I guess that doesn't hurt too much. Great people to work with though and still leagues cheaper than anything out here.
     
  50. Verbal21

    Verbal21 Active Member

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    yeah, my original one with the 8" center was $185 as well. This new one with your measurements was an extra $25, so like you said, still a lot cheaper than anybody else and once you get it in person, you'll definitely realize it looks like it's worth a lot more.
     

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