Can we set up a movie "rating only" thread?
- Thread starter joeranger
- Start date
JD
Master Member
Re: RPF movie rating?
I often find myself baffled at some of the movies people like/dislike and I often enjoy reading about what they thought of the movie often without spoilers. Which is why I love advocate the use of spoiler tags and don't get some folks' refusal to use them (I'm looking at you: Star Wars thread).
That said, this is a great idea.
Perhaps Vivek could set something up that on a movies release there's a simple poll in a movies first post? Is it possible for a mod to make a new first post and include a poll there? Maybe give us the option of 1-5 or 1-10 stars? (1 being terrible, 5 or 10 being the ultimate best movie ever).
I often find myself baffled at some of the movies people like/dislike and I often enjoy reading about what they thought of the movie often without spoilers. Which is why I love advocate the use of spoiler tags and don't get some folks' refusal to use them (I'm looking at you: Star Wars thread).
That said, this is a great idea.
Perhaps Vivek could set something up that on a movies release there's a simple poll in a movies first post? Is it possible for a mod to make a new first post and include a poll there? Maybe give us the option of 1-5 or 1-10 stars? (1 being terrible, 5 or 10 being the ultimate best movie ever).
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Re: RPF movie rating?
Adding a new opening post to a existing movie thread is something we discussed in the past, but due to the way the forum software incorporates the time stamp format, it's not possible to implement it so easily. After we switch our forum software, there might be a workaround solution to it.
But adding a poll to a existing thread is more doable through admin access. Reviewers telling whether a movie is worth the visit to the theater or not is something we can look into for upcoming movies. As for number ratings, let me elaborate.
I am going to repeat some of my words about ratings which I shared elsewhere before.
During college days I remember reading movie reviews and going straight to the star ratings on magazines and websites to get a sense how good the movie is. I sometimes wouldn't really read the whole review to remain surprised, so the ratings was the first indicator on how the movie was. Eventually after coming across more different online reviews, I began to realize there are better ways to convey how one felt about the movie without spoiling it and more importantly without resorting to number rating. Some sites still use it, while others don't.
Art can't be quantified by numbers. Movies and other forms of art aren't like sports where points and score through numbers really play a big part in determining the merit and performance. Though sales of art is subjected to numbers, quality of art can't and shouldn't be measured by numbers.
I know that when trying to determine if a movie is good, people these days check IMDB and sometimes if the ratings is below 8 or 7 they won't give it a chance. It's understandable that people carefully choose which movies to watch (especially at the theatre) and thus many need a simple way to check whether a movie is worth their time and money. Rotten Tomatoes is another popular way people measure a movie's worthiness these days, along with the number rating movies get a red fresh rating or a green rotten rating. Thumbs up and thumbs down is another simplified way to address this, which is more so a way of saying whether it's worth watching or not.
I know I am looking way too much into this, as movies are mere entertainment for many and not considered as some high art that they have to read a thesis about. It's just that more and more people these days expect quality of movies and art to be expressed and narrowed down to two extreme points of the accepted quality spectrum. (Kitty Farmer's Fear and Love speech from Donnie Darko comes to mind). Eg: "This movie is awesome." or "This movie sucks." But some times it's neither.
For me Prometheus is a good example for this. It was one of my most anticipated films of 2012, I liked parts of it and there were instances where I was disappointed by it. It didn't make my year's top favourite list, but there were things to champion for in this movie. Now if I go in length explaining about I liked and what I didn't like about it, what range of emotions and thought provoking questions it brought forward; then if I conclude all that by assigning a number to the movie then it's pretty much a wash up to whatever I said prior to giving it a number rating. One might say the number is simply to support the descriptive review and is only an add on, but what it actually does is it starts being accepted as the true measure of quality of the film as expressed by the reviewer, the rest just becomes noise.
I would prefer people discussing movies along with agreeing or disagreeing with content of a person's review, rather than the number rating.
I know that it's pretty much an accepted norm now (always has been) to give movies a number rating, because it's simple and easy especially for the reader to take away from the whole review. It's just that I am personally not fond of it.
We don't see people going "That painting was a 9", "That song was a 7". The whole rating is largely subjected to movies as it's easier to sell it that way to others, it's a marketing tool. Sure for general contests and measuring someone's performance in different areas we assign scores to declare a winner. But that's mainly cause those candidates are contending with each other. Movies and art in general is not a competition, it doesn't need to be pitted against each other by numbers. The success of a movie is already being measured by numbers on opening weekend by box office results where it's already a competition, we shouldn't resort to numbers again to represent its quality too.
We don't remember how much box office 2001: A Space Odyssey, Blade Runner or Fight Club made on opening weekend. What we remember is how those movies made us feel. It could have been a positive or negative experience. But it needs to expressed through words. Be it few words or couple of sentences, but not by a number which doesn't tell the reader anything on how the movie impacted us.
I know one would argue that, well I expressed my thoughts on the movie with few words and will still assign a number to it. They very well can, but it only leads to people getting accustomed to such numbers. Eventually they and others will stick to numbers only and just drop the words all together.
Even if someone has written a scathing review, I would rather read through the vitriol than just see their rating of 6, 3 or 1 which are all pointless.
We have people arguing about how a movie is not worth a 9 but only worth a 7.5. It's so unfortunate to see that people have stooped to such levels of disengagement with their discussion of cinema.
A movie takes months and sometimes years to make, with hundreds of artists involved in their respective fields of work. You take the time (about 2 hrs) to watch the movie and additional time if you are visiting the theater. And after all that, you sum up your whole movie experience with a number.
We are already living in a world where large segment of the audience have short attention span who are always clutching to their mobile phones. Let's not lose touch with expression through words when it comes to our feelings about movies and art.
Let's not become a world of MeowMeowBeenz users.
Adding a new opening post to a existing movie thread is something we discussed in the past, but due to the way the forum software incorporates the time stamp format, it's not possible to implement it so easily. After we switch our forum software, there might be a workaround solution to it.
But adding a poll to a existing thread is more doable through admin access. Reviewers telling whether a movie is worth the visit to the theater or not is something we can look into for upcoming movies. As for number ratings, let me elaborate.
I am going to repeat some of my words about ratings which I shared elsewhere before.
During college days I remember reading movie reviews and going straight to the star ratings on magazines and websites to get a sense how good the movie is. I sometimes wouldn't really read the whole review to remain surprised, so the ratings was the first indicator on how the movie was. Eventually after coming across more different online reviews, I began to realize there are better ways to convey how one felt about the movie without spoiling it and more importantly without resorting to number rating. Some sites still use it, while others don't.
Art can't be quantified by numbers. Movies and other forms of art aren't like sports where points and score through numbers really play a big part in determining the merit and performance. Though sales of art is subjected to numbers, quality of art can't and shouldn't be measured by numbers.
I know that when trying to determine if a movie is good, people these days check IMDB and sometimes if the ratings is below 8 or 7 they won't give it a chance. It's understandable that people carefully choose which movies to watch (especially at the theatre) and thus many need a simple way to check whether a movie is worth their time and money. Rotten Tomatoes is another popular way people measure a movie's worthiness these days, along with the number rating movies get a red fresh rating or a green rotten rating. Thumbs up and thumbs down is another simplified way to address this, which is more so a way of saying whether it's worth watching or not.
I know I am looking way too much into this, as movies are mere entertainment for many and not considered as some high art that they have to read a thesis about. It's just that more and more people these days expect quality of movies and art to be expressed and narrowed down to two extreme points of the accepted quality spectrum. (Kitty Farmer's Fear and Love speech from Donnie Darko comes to mind). Eg: "This movie is awesome." or "This movie sucks." But some times it's neither.
For me Prometheus is a good example for this. It was one of my most anticipated films of 2012, I liked parts of it and there were instances where I was disappointed by it. It didn't make my year's top favourite list, but there were things to champion for in this movie. Now if I go in length explaining about I liked and what I didn't like about it, what range of emotions and thought provoking questions it brought forward; then if I conclude all that by assigning a number to the movie then it's pretty much a wash up to whatever I said prior to giving it a number rating. One might say the number is simply to support the descriptive review and is only an add on, but what it actually does is it starts being accepted as the true measure of quality of the film as expressed by the reviewer, the rest just becomes noise.
I would prefer people discussing movies along with agreeing or disagreeing with content of a person's review, rather than the number rating.
I know that it's pretty much an accepted norm now (always has been) to give movies a number rating, because it's simple and easy especially for the reader to take away from the whole review. It's just that I am personally not fond of it.
We don't see people going "That painting was a 9", "That song was a 7". The whole rating is largely subjected to movies as it's easier to sell it that way to others, it's a marketing tool. Sure for general contests and measuring someone's performance in different areas we assign scores to declare a winner. But that's mainly cause those candidates are contending with each other. Movies and art in general is not a competition, it doesn't need to be pitted against each other by numbers. The success of a movie is already being measured by numbers on opening weekend by box office results where it's already a competition, we shouldn't resort to numbers again to represent its quality too.
We don't remember how much box office 2001: A Space Odyssey, Blade Runner or Fight Club made on opening weekend. What we remember is how those movies made us feel. It could have been a positive or negative experience. But it needs to expressed through words. Be it few words or couple of sentences, but not by a number which doesn't tell the reader anything on how the movie impacted us.
I know one would argue that, well I expressed my thoughts on the movie with few words and will still assign a number to it. They very well can, but it only leads to people getting accustomed to such numbers. Eventually they and others will stick to numbers only and just drop the words all together.
Even if someone has written a scathing review, I would rather read through the vitriol than just see their rating of 6, 3 or 1 which are all pointless.
We have people arguing about how a movie is not worth a 9 but only worth a 7.5. It's so unfortunate to see that people have stooped to such levels of disengagement with their discussion of cinema.
A movie takes months and sometimes years to make, with hundreds of artists involved in their respective fields of work. You take the time (about 2 hrs) to watch the movie and additional time if you are visiting the theater. And after all that, you sum up your whole movie experience with a number.
We are already living in a world where large segment of the audience have short attention span who are always clutching to their mobile phones. Let's not lose touch with expression through words when it comes to our feelings about movies and art.
Let's not become a world of MeowMeowBeenz users.
JD
Master Member
Re: RPF movie rating?
I tend to agree with you - most of the time the numbered rating I see assigned to a movie usually doesn't mean much. I think what the OP is looking for is a quick, simple way to get a consensus from a group of peers like the RPF without having to go through what is often page after page of movie discussion and often not including actual review-like discussion.
Yes, a number-based review doesn't give a movie or any art form a fair review. But, it might give an RPFer a quick, fair judgement from a like-minded audience without having to read 4 pages of posts with spoilers.
I tend to agree with you - most of the time the numbered rating I see assigned to a movie usually doesn't mean much. I think what the OP is looking for is a quick, simple way to get a consensus from a group of peers like the RPF without having to go through what is often page after page of movie discussion and often not including actual review-like discussion.
Yes, a number-based review doesn't give a movie or any art form a fair review. But, it might give an RPFer a quick, fair judgement from a like-minded audience without having to read 4 pages of posts with spoilers.
JD
Master Member
Re: RPF movie rating?
There is no easy way to do this.
I'm just worried that this is too vague. There's just not enough margin for folks like me who go to the movies every week (well, every Sunday evening that I'm not working). It's just as flawed as a star system (and perhaps more so, since it's so much more black and white with little room for interpretation).
There is no easy way to do this.
Re: RPF movie rating?
Well joeranger mainly wanted a yes or no format, this is exactly the same without reading into spoilers.
But if one is looking for something more along the lines of margin with numbers. Just consider the following.
1) Worth a visit to the theater (8-10)
2) Worth a rental (6-7)
3) Neither (5 and below)
Of course for some 7 is worth a theater visit. Once again these arbitrary numbers means different things to different people and is largely pointless.
Well joeranger mainly wanted a yes or no format, this is exactly the same without reading into spoilers.
But if one is looking for something more along the lines of margin with numbers. Just consider the following.
1) Worth a visit to the theater (8-10)
2) Worth a rental (6-7)
3) Neither (5 and below)
Of course for some 7 is worth a theater visit. Once again these arbitrary numbers means different things to different people and is largely pointless.
Dessa
Sr Member
Re: RPF movie rating?
I personally would add in a couple more options:
1) Worth repeat theater viewings
2) Worth theater viewings
3) Worth matinee theater viewing
4) Wait for a rental
5) None of the above
For me, with that scale, 5 is the only one that says that you shouldn't watch the movie. 3 and 4 are roughly the same, they're the "worth watching, but get it cheaper" categories, one being on big screen (and slightly more expensive), and one having a delay in availability (but possibility of free via Netflix and such) [4 can also be seen as "not a waste of time, but a waste of money"]. 2 speaks for itself, obviously, and 1 would be for things like GotG, which I know from the thread that some people went back to watch multiple times.
[edit]
I guess if I were to assign them numbers, 1 would be 10, 2 would be 8-9, 3 would be 6-7, 4 would be 5, and 5 would be 1-4.
I personally would add in a couple more options:
1) Worth repeat theater viewings
2) Worth theater viewings
3) Worth matinee theater viewing
4) Wait for a rental
5) None of the above
For me, with that scale, 5 is the only one that says that you shouldn't watch the movie. 3 and 4 are roughly the same, they're the "worth watching, but get it cheaper" categories, one being on big screen (and slightly more expensive), and one having a delay in availability (but possibility of free via Netflix and such) [4 can also be seen as "not a waste of time, but a waste of money"]. 2 speaks for itself, obviously, and 1 would be for things like GotG, which I know from the thread that some people went back to watch multiple times.
[edit]
I guess if I were to assign them numbers, 1 would be 10, 2 would be 8-9, 3 would be 6-7, 4 would be 5, and 5 would be 1-4.
Re: RPF movie rating?
We can go with alternate terms. Though it's better be more simple as to what the OP suggested.
But option of numbers itself is going to encourage members to leave a number and move on. We would rather see people express their thoughts, even if it's just a "This movie sucked" comment which is better than just a 6 or 5.
The member will at least make an attempt to convey why the movie didn't work for them. Numbers are just going to stifle possible discussion about the movie.
If someone needs to make an informed decision after reading synopsis and watching a trailer, the suggested poll results should suffice. The numbers itself are not going to make it any better. If not, they need to go through the thread comments while avoiding spoilers.
We can go with alternate terms. Though it's better be more simple as to what the OP suggested.
But option of numbers itself is going to encourage members to leave a number and move on. We would rather see people express their thoughts, even if it's just a "This movie sucked" comment which is better than just a 6 or 5.
The member will at least make an attempt to convey why the movie didn't work for them. Numbers are just going to stifle possible discussion about the movie.
If someone needs to make an informed decision after reading synopsis and watching a trailer, the suggested poll results should suffice. The numbers itself are not going to make it any better. If not, they need to go through the thread comments while avoiding spoilers.
JD
Master Member
Re: RPF movie rating?
I agree - I think its most important to discuss the movie. A ratings system is just a means to an end for those of that don't want to wade through a bunch of posts that probably contain spoilers (which is why I am strong advocate for spoiler tags).
I think a 1 = poor through 10 = amazing is vague and generic enough that folks can make the correlation that 1 = skip, 5 = rental and 10 = absolute must see in a theater. It is a system that's proven to have worked.
I agree - I think its most important to discuss the movie. A ratings system is just a means to an end for those of that don't want to wade through a bunch of posts that probably contain spoilers (which is why I am strong advocate for spoiler tags).
I think a 1 = poor through 10 = amazing is vague and generic enough that folks can make the correlation that 1 = skip, 5 = rental and 10 = absolute must see in a theater. It is a system that's proven to have worked.
Axlotl
Master Member
Re: RPF movie rating?
I think the star-scale movie ratings are comparable to those we use for restaurants or hotels.
5-star hotels and restaurants really go out of their way to give you your money's worth and make you feel like a king for a day.
1-star hotels and restaurants are just disgusting messes that make you regret wasting your money.
Movies can be the same way:
Some I would refer my friends to because I know they'd have a great time (5 stars).
Others I would absolutely discourage them from seeing (1 star).
I agree that art shouldn't be judged on a rating system,
but the rating system for movies exists to help us weed out the art from all the garbage posing as art.
And face it, there's a lot of garbage posing as art.
I think the star-scale movie ratings are comparable to those we use for restaurants or hotels.
5-star hotels and restaurants really go out of their way to give you your money's worth and make you feel like a king for a day.
1-star hotels and restaurants are just disgusting messes that make you regret wasting your money.
Movies can be the same way:
Some I would refer my friends to because I know they'd have a great time (5 stars).
Others I would absolutely discourage them from seeing (1 star).
I agree that art shouldn't be judged on a rating system,
but the rating system for movies exists to help us weed out the art from all the garbage posing as art.
And face it, there's a lot of garbage posing as art.
joeranger
Sr Member
I requested this on the site support. I am trying to get some interest for a rating only thread.
I think most people here would like to get feedback from this group rather than a more general rotten tomatoes.
No spoilers, no discussion just a recommendation. Ideally, this would be a great way to catch up on movies we missed.
I love reading the opinions and reviews AFTER I see the movie or decide not to see it. On the more popular movies, it is hard to scan 20 pages of discussion to make a choice about what movie to see...
After a while, we could start to see patterns of who liked or disliked what. Meaning, if someone loved Prometheus but hated Aliens Covenant, since I loved Prometheus, I would value that opinion more than others. If they hated Prometheus AND Covenant, I might see a pattern... Or if they didn't like Guardians 1 or 2, we could restrict them from posting ever again...Oops. Where is the edit button...
1 - don't waste your time
2 - see it on dvd or netflix
3 - make sure to see it on the big screen
Just a suggestion. If it is a lot of work to set this up, I understand. I ask questions on this site that could be simply googled because I value the opinions of the members here more than random internet users.
I think most people here would like to get feedback from this group rather than a more general rotten tomatoes.
No spoilers, no discussion just a recommendation. Ideally, this would be a great way to catch up on movies we missed.
I love reading the opinions and reviews AFTER I see the movie or decide not to see it. On the more popular movies, it is hard to scan 20 pages of discussion to make a choice about what movie to see...
After a while, we could start to see patterns of who liked or disliked what. Meaning, if someone loved Prometheus but hated Aliens Covenant, since I loved Prometheus, I would value that opinion more than others. If they hated Prometheus AND Covenant, I might see a pattern... Or if they didn't like Guardians 1 or 2, we could restrict them from posting ever again...Oops. Where is the edit button...
1 - don't waste your time
2 - see it on dvd or netflix
3 - make sure to see it on the big screen
Just a suggestion. If it is a lot of work to set this up, I understand. I ask questions on this site that could be simply googled because I value the opinions of the members here more than random internet users.
firesprite
Master Member
I dig this idea, Joe. Maybe it could even be implemented in the existing "post release" threads as an option to "vote" on a star rating or a scale of 1-10 for the movie.
Good point. Maybe every post-release thread should have the poll. I like the 3 options OP listed. Much better than an arbitrary 5 or 10 stars.
It's a good idea, but the issue arises that ratings are entirely subjective without context and can be misleading.
Let's take Pulp Fiction as an example. It's considered to be a fantastic film. 10 stars all around.
Personally, I hated the movie. I found it boring, crass, and poorly made, but I also get why other people (seemingly everyone else) like it.
If all I saw was a rating system that told me I had to watch the movie, I would wonder just what the hell everyone was smoking, because there's no context.
Don't just tell me that it's good or bad. Tell me WHY it's good or bad. If you can't do that, I have no interest in your opinion on the matter, because you really don't have one.
Let's take Pulp Fiction as an example. It's considered to be a fantastic film. 10 stars all around.
Personally, I hated the movie. I found it boring, crass, and poorly made, but I also get why other people (seemingly everyone else) like it.
If all I saw was a rating system that told me I had to watch the movie, I would wonder just what the hell everyone was smoking, because there's no context.
Don't just tell me that it's good or bad. Tell me WHY it's good or bad. If you can't do that, I have no interest in your opinion on the matter, because you really don't have one.
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