Buyer beware DavetheDane
- Thread starter defstartrooper
- Start date
Jumpin Jax
Sr Member
So, let me get this straight, if you LIKE the guy, they shouldn't be recast, "don't mind recasters" guy?
Very 501st.
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Star Wars Helmets
Sr Member
Jumpin Jax - I'm trying to work out what side of the fence you sit on this issue.
Are you suggesting that Tony/TE2 bought rights from Matt/TE so is able to produce armour (and we'd all presumably want to differentiate him from a recaster),
or are you saying that Matt/TE didnt have the "rights" in the first place to sell them to Tony/TE2 - which is Gino's argument?
Cheers
Jez
Jumpin Jax
Sr Member
I'm saying that basing judgment solely on your respect for Tony doesn't say much for respect of the rules in general; He either has the right or he doesn't; not "I like him, so no recasting."
Tony has the right to make, sell, blow up, or alter the TE2 molds to his heart's desire because that was the deal. Clear cut, black and white. It's his baby, because that was the deal.
And as for Gino, who has brought himself into it:
As Dan re-crafted the molds entirely and TE never HAD an exclusive agreement with Gino in the first place ( for the ROTJ molds) but that Matt's friend did with his partner at the time( but was not exclusive); my position is that TE had the right to sell to Tony.
So he did.
Tony is not a recaster, and also happens to be a good guy. Runnnin however had stated long ago, here, that recasting didn't bother him, so I found his rapid defense of Tony in terms of ripping off molds a little lopsided and based only on his appreciation of the man, not his rights.
Hate, em, love em, doesn't matter. No casting without permission.
So I guess I'm asking for clarification, in this gray muddy pond.
Tony has the right to make, sell, blow up, or alter the TE2 molds to his heart's desire because that was the deal. Clear cut, black and white. It's his baby, because that was the deal.
And as for Gino, who has brought himself into it:
As Dan re-crafted the molds entirely and TE never HAD an exclusive agreement with Gino in the first place ( for the ROTJ molds) but that Matt's friend did with his partner at the time( but was not exclusive); my position is that TE had the right to sell to Tony.
So he did.
Tony is not a recaster, and also happens to be a good guy. Runnnin however had stated long ago, here, that recasting didn't bother him, so I found his rapid defense of Tony in terms of ripping off molds a little lopsided and based only on his appreciation of the man, not his rights.
Hate, em, love em, doesn't matter. No casting without permission.
So I guess I'm asking for clarification, in this gray muddy pond.
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Darth Lars
Master Member
Oh, please.. Not the GINO/TE debate again. What any of them or any of either's partner did or did not do is not relevant to this thread.
Whether DaveTheDane/PirateTrooper was recasting a "bad guy" or not does not change anything -- it is still recasting without permission.
DaveTheDane has left the 501st. He posted a thread over on the Nordic Garrison's msgboard, where he wrote that he should get out of the hobby because he had to "focus on his family".. etc.
If anyone reads my reply over there, I just want to say that I don't side with the guy in any way. I wrote my reply in a friendly tone to encourage him to get the hell out of this hobby, as he had said that he would. If I had seen that he was still selling his wares, then my tone would have been different.
I don't even know the guy. I may have alongside him once or twice, but I don't remember his face.
Whether DaveTheDane/PirateTrooper was recasting a "bad guy" or not does not change anything -- it is still recasting without permission.
DaveTheDane has left the 501st. He posted a thread over on the Nordic Garrison's msgboard, where he wrote that he should get out of the hobby because he had to "focus on his family".. etc.
If anyone reads my reply over there, I just want to say that I don't side with the guy in any way. I wrote my reply in a friendly tone to encourage him to get the hell out of this hobby, as he had said that he would. If I had seen that he was still selling his wares, then my tone would have been different.
I don't even know the guy. I may have alongside him once or twice, but I don't remember his face.
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runnriottt
Well-Known Member
Meh...
Love you too Jax...
love:love
I think my position is pretty clear. I have from day one supported people supporting the hobby, not profiteering. Oh I am sure someone will bring up "morals". I don't buy junk cause its cheap.
Yep...to me its about the makers, not the product.
PT is wrong.
ATA is good by the new standard. One that has evolved past the old crap. It had to. TE and Gino have fought over this so long that its old hat. Neither are producing. So what? Cool! The guys that are, for this line anyway have been AP, (safely removed from it) TE2 and CAP. Your bud TE messed that up by striking a deal with CAP. Now level playing field, save for Gino... but we all know the fight. It will never be over.
ATA is new CAP. TE2 is behind him. And its cheap. Welcome to a new armor order. The Walmart approach. And backed by TE2, the only unblemished maker around. Never a problem from him... never a complaint. I say he earned it. So if he likes ATA... That is golden. Seems TE liked the molds too.. sold some of the pulls from em as his own.
If TE starts making armor again in bulk... cool as well. At this point its who you trust with your money. TE I still firmly believe is the smartest guy in all this. Like Palpatine and his vision of the galaxy. Masterful deceit.
Love you too Jax...
love:loveI think my position is pretty clear. I have from day one supported people supporting the hobby, not profiteering. Oh I am sure someone will bring up "morals". I don't buy junk cause its cheap.
Yep...to me its about the makers, not the product.
PT is wrong.
ATA is good by the new standard. One that has evolved past the old crap. It had to. TE and Gino have fought over this so long that its old hat. Neither are producing. So what? Cool! The guys that are, for this line anyway have been AP, (safely removed from it) TE2 and CAP. Your bud TE messed that up by striking a deal with CAP. Now level playing field, save for Gino... but we all know the fight. It will never be over.
ATA is new CAP. TE2 is behind him. And its cheap. Welcome to a new armor order. The Walmart approach. And backed by TE2, the only unblemished maker around. Never a problem from him... never a complaint. I say he earned it. So if he likes ATA... That is golden. Seems TE liked the molds too.. sold some of the pulls from em as his own.
If TE starts making armor again in bulk... cool as well. At this point its who you trust with your money. TE I still firmly believe is the smartest guy in all this. Like Palpatine and his vision of the galaxy. Masterful deceit.
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Amish Trooper
Master Member
LOL Nate.....:lol . Besides Gino having his input I would like clarification on the new ATA armor. Since it is a CAP+TE2 mix with permission from both.
GINO
Sr Member
It WAS exclusive.
To GF and us (my old partner and myself).
These were the first deals for mold rights ever made. It took all of about 1 year for TE to break his agreement about being out of the trooper world after he got his money. Which he has done to several others over the years since.
ANYTHING that took place after that deal has their hands dirty.
ANY deals or people that come onto the scene after that deal is illegitimate.
TE2 Tony, has recast molds, but bought them without knowing so from TE.
So that makes him kind of an innocent in this situation, but that doesn't change that what he has to offer is of recast lineage.
Just like Cap, just like this ATA person.
.
To GF and us (my old partner and myself).
These were the first deals for mold rights ever made. It took all of about 1 year for TE to break his agreement about being out of the trooper world after he got his money. Which he has done to several others over the years since.
ANYTHING that took place after that deal has their hands dirty.
ANY deals or people that come onto the scene after that deal is illegitimate.
TE2 Tony, has recast molds, but bought them without knowing so from TE.
So that makes him kind of an innocent in this situation, but that doesn't change that what he has to offer is of recast lineage.
Just like Cap, just like this ATA person.
.
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Jumpin Jax
Sr Member
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...........
Hey.....I didn't bring him up:lol
PT is bogus, his attitude is garbage and he's well gotten rid of.
Hey.....I didn't bring him up:lol
PT is bogus, his attitude is garbage and he's well gotten rid of.
runnriottt
Well-Known Member
If there was a shoulder shrug icon... I would use it here.
Really, the fight is between TE and Gino. The world of armor keeps turning. Not saying its right or wrong. It just is. Like the bus dropped em off and kept on a going.
Really, the fight is between TE and Gino. The world of armor keeps turning. Not saying its right or wrong. It just is. Like the bus dropped em off and kept on a going.
Jumpin Jax
Sr Member
Anything at all aside......this may be the first use of a triple negative:thumbsup
Star Wars Helmets
Sr Member
This thread sums up why the trooper helmet / armour recasting issue has become a complete boil on the proverbial arse of this hobby.
So my reading from whats just been said is:
1) Gino believes he has sole "rights" to all ongoing production as that was his (or rather Dave G's) deal with Matt/TE. I think for others to buy into this theory we'd need to see something more concrete - like a contract. I know thats not likely to happen but without it its just one word against another.
2) Matt/TE has sold "rights" to over half a dozen people, including two people who recast one of his helmets (i.e. CAP), but then paid him off subsequently when called on it so "everything now is ok".
Clear as mud :lol
Cheers
Jez
So my reading from whats just been said is:
1) Gino believes he has sole "rights" to all ongoing production as that was his (or rather Dave G's) deal with Matt/TE. I think for others to buy into this theory we'd need to see something more concrete - like a contract. I know thats not likely to happen but without it its just one word against another.
2) Matt/TE has sold "rights" to over half a dozen people, including two people who recast one of his helmets (i.e. CAP), but then paid him off subsequently when called on it so "everything now is ok".
Clear as mud :lol
Cheers
Jez
Amish Trooper
Master Member
That sounds about right. don't forget RT used a TE faceplate and then got permission. :wacko
GINO
Sr Member
Ask GF. I'm sure he'll confirm what I've said.
It's only muddy to those who weren't involved.
For those who were, it's always been crystal.
Do you really think someone would shell out $xx,xxx and not have it be an exclusive deal?
Someone (TE) just couldn't keep their hands out of the cookie jar (ie trooper money tree).
.
It's only muddy to those who weren't involved.
For those who were, it's always been crystal.
Do you really think someone would shell out $xx,xxx and not have it be an exclusive deal?
Someone (TE) just couldn't keep their hands out of the cookie jar (ie trooper money tree).
.
Jumpin Jax
Sr Member
:lol
Yeah, they'd look pretty stupid
Don't believe ya, can't believe ya. Got way too many people saying you're a BSer, and you've got your opinion.
Sorry, it's a shame.
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Jumpin Jax
Sr Member
To clarify a bit, Dave G's deal with Mike, not Matt.
JoeR
Sr Member
Quoted for truth. God this debate is so boring. The point of the thread beware of Dave The Dane.
Joe
GINO
Sr Member
That is not true.
It was Dave & my deal and it was with Matt.
Mike was the guy who had the molds in his possession (because he originally made them from the real pieces and did all the forming for Matt). All he did was mail them out to us. Matt got all the money.
.
Jumpin Jax
Sr Member
More like petty remarks. And that's the more tiresome event in threads like these.
I've also never seen a scrap of evidence of "exclusive rights" from anyone. Not one person that cast the oldest pieces. It's easy to claim it, and in this business it's a boon to do so; but doesn't make it solid.
Tony has an exclusive right free and clear, so I suppose he's the exception to the rule.
The only one.
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