Best Raiders Fertility Idol.. Questions!

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rennervision

New Member
Hello everyone. I could use some help from the experts.

I just purchased the LocoApe version of this idol, which seemed reasonably close to the original based on some of the things mentioned earlier in this thread (about imperfections to spot when buying). Indeed it looked fine - although maybe an inch shorter than the real thing - until I put it on a little display shelf. And then... while staring up at it... I realized the head is twisted to the left. And it's really distracting. It makes the whole shelf look crooked!

I'm wondering - is this an accurate depiction of the real thing? Are all of the best versions like this? The funny thing is that depending on which angle you look at it from, it seems fine. But man, looking up at it on a shelf does not do it any favors.
 

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rennervision

New Member
Here are some photos to help explain what I mean.

This first one makes me feel like I'm standing on a crooked floor...

FXj4yXJ.jpg


And this one is from a different angle where you can see the face is kind of looking up rather than straight ahead...

VKBjOaP.jpg


If I stare at this too long I might go crazy and start laughing maniacally like Belloq.
 

Indy Magnoli

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
The face does look a bit upwards, but yeah, that lean shouldn't be there. It looks like maybe the base of the idol is just not level. Maybe just add a little wedge to one side to straighten it.
 

rennervision

New Member
Oh it's definitely level - I've checked that. And I tried tilting it to counteract the weirdly twisted head. Which then gives you a straight head with a weirdly angled body. :)

No way I can display this without going insane. I've thought about buying a SS version off eBay, but I'd prefer to keep my purchase around $200. I'd be willing to go higher - but not $850-$1600 like some sellers currently think that one is worth. And whatever I get has got to look... right.
 
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GeordieIndy

Sr Member
I've thought about buying a SS version off eBay, but I'd prefer to keep my purchase around $200. I'd be willing to go higher - but not $850-$1600 like some sellers currently think that one is worth. And whatever I get has got to look... right.

Keep an eye out on here, you should see a couple of much more accurate Idols become available from different members in the near future. I've already posted one link previously in this thread that you should check out, and here is another:

 

GeordieIndy

Sr Member
On another note, regarding the Gobler Idol which is still one of the most prized possessions to many Idol collectors around the world, and for a very good reason, as it is a very nice idol. I remember reading the following that Gobler posted on COW many years ago.

"I made mine using an ILM idol that I obtained. I cleaned it up and re-sculpted the mouth, eyes and nose to be film accurate."

"Yes It was obtained from a mold from ILM.... It was a mess as the mold was in really bad shape. I had to do a lot of clean up work to get it to the correct SA look. I had great photo reference not readily available as well as a good study of a real screen used idol in a private collection."


Almost all the replicas I have seen over the years have come from the Stunt Idol with the frowned mouth. This is why anyone who replicates this idol always will have to do some re-sculpting to make it more SA.

Gobler did a great job with his Idol at the time, but over the years more reference material has become available, such as photos of the Prop Store Idol and also of the Hero Pedestal idol. From these photos we can clearly see the mouth on the originals is slightly more frowned than the Gobler, and the baby is different. There are also several other differences from the Gobler to the originals, and we are seeing these differences being addressed by new members replicating this iconic prop.

I once owned a Gobler Idol, I waited 4 years when Gobler was doing his last run, but when my Idol arrived it was slightly damaged with some plating chipped off. I ended up selling it straight away as Gobler didn't have any more he could exchange mine for.....

As many know, this prop has been a bit of an obsession of mine for years, studying as many photos of the originals as possible, looking at photos of nearly all the replicas that have been available over the years, and speaking to several members in private who have been lucky enough to see up close the originals.
 

JoshuaV

Active Member
On another note, regarding the Gobler Idol which is still one of the most prized possessions to many Idol collectors around the world, and for a very good reason, as it is a very nice idol. I remember reading the following that Gobler posted on COW many years ago.

"I made mine using an ILM idol that I obtained. I cleaned it up and re-sculpted the mouth, eyes and nose to be film accurate."

"Yes It was obtained from a mold from ILM.... It was a mess as the mold was in really bad shape. I had to do a lot of clean up work to get it to the correct SA look. I had great photo reference not readily available as well as a good study of a real screen used idol in a private collection."


Almost all the replicas I have seen over the years have come from the Stunt Idol with the frowned mouth. This is why anyone who replicates this idol always will have to do some re-sculpting to make it more SA.

Gobler did a great job with his Idol at the time, but over the years more reference material has become available, such as photos of the Prop Store Idol and also of the Hero Pedestal idol. From these photos we can clearly see the mouth on the originals is slightly more frowned than the Gobler, and the baby is different. There are also several other differences from the Gobler to the originals, and we are seeing these differences being addressed by new members replicating this iconic prop.

I once owned a Gobler Idol, I waited 4 years when Gobler was doing his last run, but when my Idol arrived it was slightly damaged with some plating chipped off. I ended up selling it straight away as Gobler didn't have any more he could exchange mine for.....

As many know, this prop has been a bit of an obsession of mine for years, studying as many photos of the originals as possible, looking at photos of nearly all the replicas that have been available over the years, and speaking to several members in private who have been lucky enough to see up close the originals.


Hi GeordieIndy,
I've been following the replication of Indy Idols here for a while and I find your knowledge on the subject admirable. What are your thoughts comparing the new Relicmaker line of Idols to the Gobler Idol in terms of Providence. Being I've been following Relicmakers thread on his new line of idols, its been a great read but I do remember catching a small bit of text in his initial post that though he has a casting, his current idol is still a resculpt of the stunt idol using his ILM cast to get it to spec to the hero.

From a providence standpoint of origin, would you find the Gobler Idol more providential, even though there is noted resculpting due to mold defects its still from the studio molds?

Also, what's your take on the Stelter Creative Idols? I think I ran into one for purchase but again, anything above $200 for me begs I look into the idols Providence as I find movie mold (even defective) as more in value from an exhibit standpoint then Screen Accurate.

Thanks for your time and yes, I am on the fence with Relicmakers Idol as its a gorgeous Idol, but with the current unexpected issues witht he factory due to the outbreak and the price range I'm curious if its even worth trying to get on the extended waiting list. It is a work of art though, and the materials used has me very very very seriously looking into it lol.
 

Jamesfett

Sr Member
The history of the Gobler idol is that it is cast off an idol from the archives with some cleanup done. Mainly, the teeth were cleaned up and the baby's face. The baby's face is not accurate though but it is the ONLY idol out there that never suffered from shrinkage. Most idols will be an inch or more shorter.



Here is my Gobler idol next to another idol that was selling here about 8 years ago.

View attachment 690459 View attachment 690458 View attachment 690460

- - - Updated - - -

Here is a comprehensive list of the idols we know of:

View attachment 690461


Maybe it was cold out. Happens to us all.
 

Jamesfett

Sr Member
I'm seeing major differences in the mouth on that Stelter idol compared to the screen idol you are comparing it to. Nice but not really accurate. There are so many out there.
I have permission from Gobler to mould and cast his idol. But even the Gobler needs work done to it to make it perfect. The baby in particular.
Here are some pics of the Ines we did some years back.
fb1ad5c578ba7bfbc75d65f10db805a0.jpg
31db5aa7a7bfa0d68769a3645c03d948.jpg
4e6f0ee71844acc9bcd1c2cd152942fe.jpg
03923b9e4e648a4b4d693828531b2f92.jpg
3bfb347185d4405d2d13484f02e32cfb.jpg
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b4003d3277d5d24f6654d7e8f6f75509.jpg
84c79751e8a08b1c14c92fcf0d18fd07.jpg
37f5905e30fa491bad4f5981d2ee7b20.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As great as these pics are they don't do it justice. It looks even more amazing in person. IMO the best Idol. Again (Don't hate me Goblers) IMO. I just love the Hero and this thing is amazing. Just gorgeous. The eyes are amazing. The just stare at you. It's about 7 1/4" High so about 1/2" shorter than what the Hero supposedly is and about a 1/2" shorter than Relickmaker's but I don't care. It's my baby,...with a baby.

I was beyond angry when I had to sell mine and so happy when I was able to reacquire one.
 

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GeordieIndy

Sr Member
Hi Joshua,

Thanks for your question.

With regards to which idol between RelicMakers & Goblers is more providential, that is an interesting question. Both Idols apparently come from ILM idols, which if they did, would be a Stunt Idol with the frowned mouth. Both idols would have needed some re-sculpting to get them to look like the Belloq & Pedestal Hero Idols, and both RelicMaker & Gobler have stated this work was carried out on their idols.

I have seen a couple of photos of a RelicMaker Idol next to a Gobler Idol, and I would actually like to see some more photos from members who own both Idols, so I can study them better. I need to see them side by side from all angles to really take a close look at all the details to compare them to the original idols. From the few photos I have seen there are several noticeable differences, and not just the mouth and the baby. There are other differences that most others would not notice, and I don't know if this is due to the amount of work that was carried out on each Idol, or if they came from two quite different castings. If we got to see each Idol that RelicMaker and Gobler had to work on, then I would be able to comment better. I have a favourite between the two, but I will keep that to myself as I don't want to put either Idol down, and both prop makers have done nice work.

There is only one person who showed us their Stunt Idol that they acquired, which they did a run off, and then they made changes to that Idol to make a more SA Pedestal Idol, and that was SSKUNKY. He did a great job, but his Idol was smaller in size than the other two Idols.

There are other members who could tell you exactly the story of how several people out there managed to get their hands on an ILM Idol, then how people took castings from that Idol, then castings from that Idol, then someone took castings of that Idol etc.

The one thing I can tell you, is that there has never been a direct casting taken from the Belloq or the Pedestal Idol that has ever been publicly made available to purchase. All replicas that have been publicly available have come from the Stunt Idol.

It has been a long time since I looked into the Stelter Idols, and I honestly can't remember their story. Maybe Jedifyfe could give you some info on those.

The one Idol I am very keen to see finished is the kpax idol, the work I have seen so far has made it the most accurate Idol ever, in my opinion. I know kpax has made more changes since I last saw it, so I look forward to seeing it when it's complete. But he has put an incredible amount of research and work into his, which many of us Idol nut jobs have waited for someone to do on this iconic prop for such a long time.
 

JoshuaV

Active Member
Hi Joshua,

Thanks for your question.

With regards to which idol between RelicMakers & Goblers is more providential, that is an interesting question. Both Idols apparently come from ILM idols, which if they did, would be a Stunt Idol with the frowned mouth. Both idols would have needed some re-sculpting to get them to look like the Belloq & Pedestal Hero Idols, and both RelicMaker & Gobler have stated this work was carried out on their idols.

I have seen a couple of photos of a RelicMaker Idol next to a Gobler Idol, and I would actually like to see some more photos from members who own both Idols, so I can study them better. I need to see them side by side from all angles to really take a close look at all the details to compare them to the original idols. From the few photos I have seen there are several noticeable differences, and not just the mouth and the baby. There are other differences that most others would not notice, and I don't know if this is due to the amount of work that was carried out on each Idol, or if they came from two quite different castings. If we got to see each Idol that RelicMaker and Gobler had to work on, then I would be able to comment better. I have a favourite between the two, but I will keep that to myself as I don't want to put either Idol down, and both prop makers have done nice work.

There is only one person who showed us their Stunt Idol that they acquired, which they did a run off, and then they made changes to that Idol to make a more SA Pedestal Idol, and that was SSKUNKY. He did a great job, but his Idol was smaller in size than the other two Idols.

There are other members who could tell you exactly the story of how several people out there managed to get their hands on an ILM Idol, then how people took castings from that Idol, then castings from that Idol, then someone took castings of that Idol etc.

The one thing I can tell you, is that there has never been a direct casting taken from the Belloq or the Pedestal Idol that has ever been publicly made available to purchase. All replicas that have been publicly available have come from the Stunt Idol.

It has been a long time since I looked into the Stelter Idols, and I honestly can't remember their story. Maybe Jedifyfe could give you some info on those.

The one Idol I am very keen to see finished is the kpax idol, the work I have seen so far has made it the most accurate Idol ever, in my opinion. I know kpax has made more changes since I last saw it, so I look forward to seeing it when it's complete. But he has put an incredible amount of research and work into his, which many of us Idol nut jobs have waited for someone to do on this iconic prop for such a long time.

Thanks for your insight. this will help me better gauge an idol to invest into moving forward whenever they become available. I know there was a bronze idol that came up in the junkyard, alas someone snapped it up well before I got the chance to buy it myself. Till next time lol.

That said I also know a few FX workers who as you've stated, own ILM castings of the Stunt Idol as it is the most accessible idol out there from the film. One is former ILM alum, the other did a long tenure at Paramount. I too own a ILM Stunt thanks to my former profession in Hollywood. And I've had the good fortune to compare my idol against the two ILM casting I know of for validity. Its a fortunate thing to be able to do.

That said I might invest into a metal Stunt down the road, being as a collector and exhibitor I collect items with notable providence. And thanks for informing me of the idols in question, being I was seriously on the fence for a while till I caught that bit of word play. Knowing now mostly all if not all Hero Idols are ILM stunt resculpts, it helps me greatly when making decisions in my own collection. As you said, they are beautiful works of art, and any piece that has me question its providence is indeed hard earned praise.

All that said I present another riddle, I happened upon this on ebay of all places. I was curious if you or anyone can place the prop maker who might be behind this idol, being outside of the RPF or Club Obiwan I don't know of anyone who would go through the trouble of tooling the eyes. I've been scouring old Idol runs here and haven't come up to any runs that match this idol.

Thank you again for your time!
My Best,
-J
Ebay Indy.jpg
 

sskunky

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Are everyone referring to the HATA/crew wraps table idol, when they talk about the stunt?
I was under the impression the idols most people use are casts of the idol used in the HATA exhibition and were displayed on tables and people took them? Why are they now known as the stunt? I’ve been out of the Indy world for a while now so maybe some info has come to light that I am unaware of?
 

GeordieIndy

Sr Member
There were at least 3 idols that we see on screen, the Pedestal Idol with moving glass eyes, the Stunt Idol as seen in my photos that has the frowned mouth, and the Belloq Idol.

Joshua, unfortunately I am not sure who made the idol you posted photos of, sorry.
 

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JoshuaV

Active Member
There were at least 3 idols that we see on screen, the Pedestal Idol with moving glass eyes, the Stunt Idol as seen in my photos that has the frowned mouth, and the Belloq Idol.

Joshua, unfortunately I am not sure who made the idol you posted photos of, sorry.

No worries, I can only imagine the amount of grail runs that have been done over the years.

Are everyone referring to the HATA/crew wraps table idol, when they talk about the stunt?
I was under the impression the idols most people use are casts of the idol used in the HATA exhibition and were displayed on tables and people took them? Why are they now known as the stunt? I’ve been out of the Indy world for a while now so maybe some info has come to light that I am unaware of?

Yeah I'm curious about this too. I thought the HATA was cast from the Hero Idol for the exhibit? Or was it the Stunt ILM idol that was cast for that exhibit?
 

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The 48th Ronin

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
(y)

Also...

Providence.
providential

providence [ prov-i-duh ns ]

noun

1. (often initial capital letter) the foreseeing care and guidance of God or nature over the creatures of the earth.
2. (initial capital letter) God, especially when conceived as omnisciently directing the universe and the affairs of humankind with wise benevolence.
3. a manifestation of divine care or direction.
4. provident or prudent management of resources; prudence.
5. foresight; provident care.

provenance [ prov-uh-nuh ns, -nahns ]

noun

1. place or source of origin:
The provenance of the ancient manuscript has never been determined.

The word you were looking for is provenance. :)
 

JoshuaV

Active Member
(y)

Also...




providence [ prov-i-duh ns ]

noun

1. (often initial capital letter) the foreseeing care and guidance of God or nature over the creatures of the earth.
2. (initial capital letter) God, especially when conceived as omnisciently directing the universe and the affairs of humankind with wise benevolence.
3. a manifestation of divine care or direction.
4. provident or prudent management of resources; prudence.
5. foresight; provident care.

provenance [ prov-uh-nuh ns, -nahns ]

noun

1. place or source of origin:
The provenance of the ancient manuscript has never been determined.

The word you were looking for is provenance. :)

Haha, thanks. I can easily blame auto correct, but I'm gonna man up and own it, twas my bad :p
 

KramStaar

Sr Member
If we look at the "stunt" and the glass eyes idols in the Archives (these are after the restoration):

View attachment 1288472

It would appear that the Hata idol was cast from the stunt (note the "pointy" frown mouth):

View attachment 1288474

The idol in the book is in the Ranch Main House. The only idol currently in the Archive building is the 'eye' version but sadly the restoration was pretty poor.

Screen Shot 2020-04-20 at 10.23.29 am.png
 

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