Battle starship

Discussion in 'General Modeling' started by yuumi2891103, Jun 19, 2016.

  1. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Hi,

    I could finally manage to fix the over all design of my next model,
    It will be a 3 foot long model of the battle ship.
    I started to build the 1 foot long nose section now.

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    Thanks for looking,

    katsu
     
  2. the DOCTOR

    the DOCTOR Well-Known Member

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    Excellent! Katsu-san is back in his workspace! :)
     
  3. Victor3

    Victor3 Well-Known Member

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    60983024.jpg

    Always a pleasure to watch you work!
     
  4. madmikeee

    madmikeee Sr Member

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  5. Caretaker10

    Caretaker10 Active Member

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    Katsu-san,
    Very good to see a build from you again my friend. Looks promising as usual..
    I hope all is well?

    Regards,
    Jim
     
  6. jarroth

    jarroth Well-Known Member

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    im gonna sit back and watch while whiping drool of my face
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
  7. SofaKing01

    SofaKing01 Master Member

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    Very exciting! Another epic build coming our way! I think a "Pre-Thank you" is in order :)
     
  8. Albertese

    Albertese Well-Known Member

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    Always exciting to see the master at work! Let me go get my popcorn...

    --Alex
     
  9. blakeh1

    blakeh1 Sr Member

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    Looking forward to it!
     
  10. Cadeus

    Cadeus Sr Member

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    I was hoping to see something new from you, Katsu-san! I always hope to see you when I get on here. You are a very remarkable man... As always, I can't to see this one thrue with you. And please let us know how your beautiful family is doing. Is your daughter still interested in sculpting?
     
  11. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Thank you for your pleasant comment, my friends,

    Hi, Doc. Victor3, Mikeee-san, long time no see. Thank you Jim the caretaker-san and Jarroth-san.
    Thank YOU, SofaKing the great builder! and Albertese-san, you should bring a buckets of pop corn because it will be a long ride this time, (as usual).
    Thank you Blakeh1 and Cadeus-san.
    We are all fine and my daughter's are working so hard everyday.
    One of them is selling jewels and looks too busy for the sculpting and the other one is making a bunch of ballet costumes for the rent.
    [​IMG]

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    https://www.google.co.jp/imgres?img...LjNAhXBkZQKHaueCNYQMwgeKAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8cMcISUiQY

    Ha ha, what a silly dad, OK OK Let's shut up!!
    But I'm so happy to see her doing the things she really loves.

    I'm going to use some aluminum plate for this model this time.
    It's strong and easy to cut or bend and less dust.

    I've ordered some 0.3 mm aluminum plate already but not been delivered yet.
    So, I tried to use some thin aluminum sheets for practice - actually it is a beer can - to see how it is.

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    Put it on a sharp 90 deg. edge and knock with a wooden block to bend and get a angled beam.
    I learned this in my junior high school days. My first work was a dust scoop. XD

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    Looking good.

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    Maybe I can use them for the base of further detailing.
    So that may be I don't have to spend a long time to look for the good shaped kit parts anymore.

    Thanks for looking.

    Katsu
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
  12. Strode

    Strode Well-Known Member

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    YASSSSSSS. Welcome back. Gonna be a great ride!
     
  13. SmilingOtter

    SmilingOtter Master Member

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    I can't tell you how happy I am to see you back with another project! I look forward to the journey.

    And your daughter's creations are beautiful, especially all the fine details. More proof that creativity is genetic...
     
  14. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Hi, Strode-san,
    I hope you love it!

    Hi, Tom-san,
    I am so happy to be back here with a new model.
    It was so hard and took long time to come up with this design but I hope you love it.
    Thank you for your usual strong support .

    katsu
     
  15. Randy13

    Randy13 Well-Known Member

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    I'm so glad to see you back with another original design. I know this will be a fun journey for all of us.
     
  16. NakedMoleRat

    NakedMoleRat Sr Member

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    Yes!!!!! More Katsu-San model goodness!
     
  17. Pcoz

    Pcoz Well-Known Member

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    Sweet! Can't wait to watch.

    Pcoz
     
  18. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Hi, Randy-san, how are you?

    Still I have to solve the technical issue to build some part of this model but...
    whatever will be will be. XD

    Thank you very much, NMR my friend.
    So far there is nothing exciting but I hope you'll enjoy with me.

    Thank you, Pcoz-san. Long time no see. :D

    All the best,

    Katsu
     
    Randy13 likes this.
  19. Rats

    Rats Sr Member

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    Looking forward to another great and inspirational build! I've already learned a new technique!! どうもありがとうございました!
     
  20. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Thank you very much, Rats-san.
    こちらこそ ありがとうございます。


    Here are some more metal work.

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    Thanks for looking.

    katsu
     
    JPH, torren_of_amber, Cadeus and 2 others like this.
  21. Caretaker10

    Caretaker10 Active Member

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    I love getting these notifications.
    Katsu-san, you are a true Master! Plastic, metalwork.. Incredible.
    No matter what you use, you make it look so easy.

    So glad to see you building again..
    Jim
     
  22. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Thanks Jim-san,

    So far the progress is slow but I'm getting used to this metal work.
    It's very fun to do.

    katsu.
     
  23. Mike J.

    Mike J. Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Those look like some very clean cuts and bends in your metalwork!

    What's that blue foam spaceship in the first picture of your first post? Is that a mock-up of this one?
     
  24. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Hi! Mike-san,

    Thanks for the comment.
    I am using a 0.3 mm thick of aluminul sheet. You can cut the alumi sheet just like you cut the sheet plastic if the thickness is less than 1.5mm.
    I am bending with my hands so far but looks like U.S provides many good tools for the metal sheet work like bead roller of BOSRON.
    It seems many of those motorcycle fans are making their custom tanks or parts with these thick aluminul sheets.

    Yes, that little blue thing is the rough mock-up of this one.
    As usual, the finished model would be drastically different. :lol

    katsu
     
  25. Mike J.

    Mike J. Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Well, I assumed it wouldn't be blue. Not that that's a bad color ;)

    The general shape looks good.


    -MJ
     
  26. Spaceace

    Spaceace Well-Known Member

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    The model genius is back...looking forward to your next masterpiece.
     
  27. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Hi, Ace-san,

    Thanks for dropping by!

    all the best
     
  28. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Here are some progress on basic structure.

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    Thanks for looking.
    Any question welcomed.

    katsu
     
  29. SmilingOtter

    SmilingOtter Master Member

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    Nice. And once again it looks like the model is much bigger than it really is.
     
  30. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Tanks Tom-san. I will post soon.
     
  31. jarroth

    jarroth Well-Known Member

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    may i ask you a question and i do i no means want to offend you but do you have a autism spectrum disorder? why i ask? your attention to detail is something i see back in me and my son. we both fall into higher functioning autism and we both share the attention to detail if we do something. although we dont realy build models but we have rebuilding lawnmowers (yeah go on point and laugh :) ) as hobby and when we clean the things and repaint they look better that new.

    again. sorry if the question is offending. it isnt meant to be, im just curious.
     
  32. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Hi, thanks for asking.

    I have checked the syndrome on wikipedia but those symptoms haven't match with me so far.
    I love the detail and love to build it but also I love it going easy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
  33. Vacformedhero

    Vacformedhero Sr Member

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    Yyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwww your back, I missed your return , good luck launching your next ship,
    now everyone else push along on the bench and shush
     
  34. Andrew C.

    Andrew C. Well-Known Member

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    Wow, excellent work! :thumbsup
     
  35. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Hi! Vacformedhero-san,

    Thank you very much for dropping by and sending me a cheerful comment for the launch.


    Hi! Andrew=san

    Long time no see, How are you ?

    Thank yo very much!

    katsu
     
  36. trekriffic

    trekriffic Sr Member

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    What a treat it is to follow your work. Awesome sauce!
     
  37. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Thank you very much, Steve-san!!

    Bon apetit.

    katsu
     
  38. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Battle in space

    I have seen many Sci-Fi movies featuring space battle sequences. Many of them are completely fantasy like Star Wars. On the other hand, some nearly realistic movies as Star Treck. But I've never seen avery realistic one.

    Most of those space battle scenes were using some laser beam or some kind of unknown energy beam weapons. Most of the starship is able to maneuver freely like the aircraft. Recently, I have been thinking that how you fight the real space battle in a realistic environment and realistic technology which we are able to foresee. It must be interesting to speculate what it will be. Before I start describe, maybe I should put some condition on it.

    Fighting ship:
    Battleship has been designed and built by known or possible technologies and should be controlled by human races not by an alien from outer space. It doesn’t matter if it’s intercontinental war orcolonial or civil war but any way no aliens.
    The size of a battleship or a cruiser equipped with conventional thruster. No warp drive. Maneuver is possible with vector thruster.
    Gravity control, basically no.

    Sensors:
    Radar and optical sensor
    What else? Gravity anomaly detector? Hum…..

    Weapons:
    Magneto electric rail gun
    Conventional cannon
    Some said that if you fire gun in space, it may cause vacuum deposition phenomenon(what?) and it make the gun jammed. I have never heard or seen someone fired gun in space in a long history of US space project. Or would no gunpowder isignited in the ultra-low temperature of the universe? Maybe NRA knows that?
    High power laser cannon
    Guided Missile (Torpedo) with restricted maneuverability
    Multiple Launch Rocket System

    Other
    Stealth capability, cloaking and countermeasure system


    Well, let’s start

    Target detection and designation

    Combat Range
    Possible combat range in real space battle should be limited by its sensor capability and effective range of the weapon. The conventional warfare used fought on the surface or sea hasn’t been bothered by the response time of using sensor system.
    In the aerial combat on the earth, the response of the radar or laser is instant. Even in a sea sub combat, the sound speed is much faster than that of in the air and the speed of the weapon like torpedo is rather slow than any other surface or an aerial weapons. Unlike the battle on planet surface, the possible combat range in real space battle would be limited by its sensor capability. The speed of electro magnetic radiation such as light, radar beam would be the factor to determine the battle range. For example, if you fight the foe in the distance of earth and moon, the dot on your radar scope is about 3 seconds old. That time rag might be the fatal in the future combat scene. Computer may continuously calculate the possible enemy position instantly but still it may be limited by its distance anyway. Also the stealth capability, somecloaking device and counter measure might make the battle range closer. No enemies might be appeared as it is in the battle condition. Like every soldier wears a camouflage uniform and hides behind the cover. Every fighter plane deploys chaff and flares. Every submarine launch counters measure and go silent mode. So, why not for space battle? Complete pitch black back ground of star field should be easy to hide the matte black painted hull and the future radar stealth technologies might easy to make whole battleship vanished.And of course, decoys. Thousands of decoyswill be deployed at the moment they come in range of the sensors. Thesefactors of battle would be concluded that the battle in space will possibly befought in close quarters or point blank range. Close enough to verify anddesignate the enemy vessel by Mk.1 Eye Ball Sensor. The first shot would be the key to victory. If you missed the first shot or fired upon a wrong target, you will be counter attacked immediately. After that, the battle moves to hit enemyas much as possible and to withstand to be hit. You may have to have many and valuable high power weapons.
    Here in a space, to hit the target is rather easier than that of the planet surface. You don't have to consider about the drag of air, humidity, bullet drop and ballistic even a firing ranges. Once the bullets leave the muzzle, it will neither be getting slow nor dropping down. Never ever. The bullets keep the power forever. The ballistic computing will be easy enough even for the hand held computer. Time to impact target and lead angles and that's all. Sniper in space is going to be a boring occupation.
    Oh, yes, you should think about the recoils. Thus the laser cannon would be one of the ideal weapons for this kind of battle if it has an enough power to penetrate the armor plates of the enemy vessel. When you fire the physical bullet, you'll have to face the action and reaction issue. But that's not the major problem at all. Put the weapons on a big and heavy platform like old WW2 battleship and some ah.. Good stuffing or something like automatic counter thrust system might absorb the recoil. …I guess..
    Also you may need to cover the vessel with thick armor plates. It’s heavy and cost you to build and bring it up to space ship yard but hey, it’s the things in the future. The government will find new financial resources. Just raise our tax.
    Of course, you can be equipped with some guided weapons like missile or torpedoes. However, as you know the maneuverability of those projectile or flying objects may be very restricted in the space. Control wings like rudder or aileron won't work. Only some vector thruster will be effective to guide them to the target.
    The most effective tactic is simple. The concentrated barrage fire in a close distance.
    You see the opponent coming closer head on in a rather faster velocity.
    When in range, blow counter thrust and kill the speed.
    At the moment you are passing through opposing side by side.
    You open fire.
    Thousands of bullets and rockets fill the space between each other.
    View from the third person perspective, hell of a furious firefight in complete silence.
    View from the first person perspective,canned in a drumming thunder.
    When you passing by, gain speed as quickly as possible and take enough spacing to turn around and get back to the second match.

    The real space battle would be silently but more dramatic and dynamic than I thought at the first place. It may remind me the great fleet battle happened in WW2. 'Battle of Tassafaronga' November 30 1942.

    Thanks for reading.

    KF
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2018
    Holy Wookiee, Randy13, Cadeus and 2 others like this.
  39. SmilingOtter

    SmilingOtter Master Member

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    Well thought out!

    Depending on what sort of engines and maneuvering thrusters the ship might have, it could be possible to track the enemy with infrared sensors, but only when the ship is maneuvering. I would imagine that it would be very much like combat between two submarines.

    Also I think drones would be very useful in space combat. That said, if they weren't completely autonomous, the drones' signals could be detected, which could lead back to whatever ship is controlling them.
     
  40. Albertese

    Albertese Well-Known Member

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    Well, if we're going to bring realistic physics into the space combat model, then you don't get to have stealth in space at all. Period. Any maneuvering rocket is going to have to burn hot enough to be seen easily from many light-hours away. Even if you do your burns at a considerable distance and approach on a purely ballistic trajectory, (1) you probably were being tracked when you did your burns, (2) you're going to take forever to reach your objective in a Holman orbit, and (3) the shipboard systems just to keep your crew alive are going to be hundreds of degrees hotter than surrounding space and you'll always be visible on infrared. You can't perpetually store your heat on board, you'll have to have radiators to expend it into space to not cook your crew. (This is even an issue with real life space craft... the reason why the NASA space shuttle always orbited with its payload doors open is that the thermal radiators were built into the doors so they radiated to space to keep the crew comfortable.)

    Some have suggested that you could route all of your cooling to radiate off the back of your attack ship so the target couldn't see it, but that only works if your target is stationary and has no eyes elsewhere. But even if you have no patrol craft and you're a stationary facility, if you are in a setting where space battleships are practical, then you would have the capability of peppering the area around you with fairly passive observation satellites which would be more than able to locate any incoming aggressor. (In fact, the technology to build and deploy such satellites is already mature today, but, fortunately for us, space battleships are not yet a credible threat.)

    No doubt, you would have some sort of electronic countermeasures suite to give you a bit of an edge on spoofing the incoming fire. Also maybe chaff and the like will have an application. Decoys would not be that useful as they would need to have the same mass and engine performance as your real ship in order to fake out your enemy. The burn characteristics of a ship would be so specific that you would probably be able to ID specific vessels by their engine plume, much like modern sonar can ID specific ships be the sounds of their engines, though on a much farther range, as, again, plumes are visible for several light-hours. At that point you might as well just build additional warships. (I've speculated about a spacefaring nation that would subsidize merchant freight ships that operated within a mass and engine performance range that matched their warships to provide cover for their military movements.)

    You probably also wouldn't have much armor at all. More and more mass with make bigger and bigger demands on the rocketry to actually maneuver this beast. It would require more and more volume of the ship to be concerned with carrying propellant and decrease the ability to carry tactical systems. Realistic space battleships would likely be open frameworks with hard-points for weaponry and the propulsion bus and little else. Very likely, space combat would be like jet or most submarine encounters: one hit, one kill.

    This is a fascinating topic, but I gotta get to work this morning. It'll be great fun to see how this discussion influences your design!

    --Alex
     
  41. Andrew C.

    Andrew C. Well-Known Member

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    Hello Katsuhiko-San!
    Thank you, I am well. Great modeling as always, keep up the good work and thanks for sharing your inspirational photos! :thumbsup
    Andrew
     
  42. Teddz

    Teddz Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Katsu-san!!!! Amazing as always!! Glad you're building again, but come on man... Aluminum??? just when I get a grasp on your work, you kick it up a bunch of levels and blow my mind. Well done!! I'm going to enjoy watching this beauty come to life.
     
  43. DaddyfromNaboo

    DaddyfromNaboo Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I think that your ships would fit very well into the Wing Commander universe, design and battle technology wise.
     
  44. mcusanelli

    mcusanelli Active Member

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    Sir, your model making skill are really an inspiration, from the thought process to the finished product, just incredible!
     
  45. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Thanks, Tom-san, Alex-san.
    That was just a thought but you add many interesting and well considered vision.
    I rerally enjoyed.
     
  46. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Thank you very much, Teddz-san.
    So far, I am still wrestling with those aluminum sheets but I am learning a lot.
    When I get used to handle them, I would put up some tips on this thread.
    It has many possibility and seems clearly has an advantage for model building than sheet plastic.
     
  47. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Thank you very much, DaddyfromNaboo-san
    How are you and your kid doing lately ?
    Yes, I love that W/C world much.
    I am trying to make this ship look sturdy and tough.
     
  48. yuumi2891103

    yuumi2891103 Sr Member

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    Thank you, mcusanelli-san.
    Here are some progress.
    I am making many fittings simultaneously.
    P_20160710_112421_zpsuvblrfwg.jpg

    P_20160710_113136_zpsh4wue1cr.jpg

    P_20160710_113146_zpslvlzbqjr.jpg
    Recently I bought a stack of cardboard for the test fitting.
    I use this to have a pattern before I cut up the aluminum.

    P_20160711_112221_zpsy4r3wbm7.jpg

    P_20160711_112138_zps5wtunpsh.jpg

    P_20160711_112158_zpsmyq9ycoh.jpg

    Thanks for looking.
    katsu
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2018
  49. Caretaker10

    Caretaker10 Active Member

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    Don't know what more to say than the usual Woooow, Katsu-san. Looks very nice.
    How do you glue the aluminum parts to the rest of the ship?
    Keep up the good work. Looks so clean. I love it.
    Jim
     
  50. SmilingOtter

    SmilingOtter Master Member

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    I LOVE the way you cut the notches out of the strip to make the curved platform, then used the same cuts to act as bracing for the platform. That is a beautifully elegant design.
     

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