Banned Member Question

[Commander Max]

Having something like this would allow people to see who might be treading on thin ice, so that their disappearance wouldn't raise questions.

I think that will be more of a problem. Some will try to provoke those who are near the limit. Others will see far they can take the limit.
It will raise more questions, it will only make things worse. Because what if somebody got points because they were directly trolled. Otherwise they would never be a problem.

I for one am glad Rshanko is gone. I was puzzled about the guy ever since he said, "Let's get ready to rumble" comment.

 

[RogueSolo]

So, Clutch, there you have a proposal on how to shut the door on that potential abuse. What say you?

He's too busy abusing his mod powers right now to comment, but he should be back later :lol


I keed, I keed :angel

 

[Darkknight0667]

I think that will be more of a problem. Some will try to provoke those who are near the limit. Others will see far they can take the limit.
It will raise more questions, it will only make things worse. Because what if somebody got points because they were directly trolled. Otherwise they would never be a problem.

I for one am glad Rshanko is gone. I was puzzled about the guy ever since he said, "Let's get ready to rumble" comment.

I had thought about the idea that some might be compelled to try and provoke someone who is close to the edge. I'm sure it could happen, but then those posts would be considered trolling, resulting in the provoker being sanctioned. Add to that my belief that nobody can make you post in any way but you. You are in charge of your response, or if you even choose to respond is your choice. If you know that you're close to your limit and don't want to risk being banned, just don't respond or do so in a manner that stays within the rules.

As for folks who want to try and "push the limit", well . . . I believe that under the current system, they get 4 infraction points before they are banned, so if they haven't gotten the idea of where the limit is by then, they've got nobody to blame but themselves.

I don't understand what you're saying here:

Because what if somebody got points because they were directly trolled. Otherwise they would never be a problem.

Would you mind expanding on this idea? Or, did I cover it in my first paragraph?

As far as RShanko is concerned, he may very well have deserved to be tossed for his comment(s). I don't know, because I never saw them. I did, however, see quite a few trolling comments by a number of people in his original Serenity build thread. In the interest of fairness, I hope that those folks got their wrists slapped, as well.

Scarf man asked a good question that I don't see an answer for, so I'll paste it in here and hope that it doesn't get overlooked again:

Do these infraction points go away after a while? Or are you marked for life?

 

[Darth Kahnt]

Mark,

I like the idea you proposed, showing the offending post that finally caused a member to be banned. But this will only work in an instance where a member gets banned. Members who get infractions would not be subjected to this.

I don't think the idea of showing infraction points in the profile and making it publicly viewable is a good idea. It singles people out and can be embarrassing to that particular individual. When people get an infraction, I think it needs to be between them and the admin.

I'll address the above question about infraction points. Some infraction points can expire, others may not. It depends on the severity of the infraction. The ability to have it expire or not is voted on by the staff.

And trust me when I say that we as a staff are pretty darn objective. If there are issues that come up involving our friends OR members we may not necessarily see eye to eye with and it skews our ability to be impartial, we bow out. I myself have bowed out of several issues because friends were involved.

Hope all this helps.

Chris
RPF Staff

 

[atacpdx]

Chris,

I appreciate the reasoned response! I can see the embarrassment factor on the points. I think the overall point is just to have as much transparency as possible. It is taking that extra 30 seconds to formulate a post or consider how a joke or sarcasm will play. As I mentioned, I'm sure Clutch was being funny but in a serious thread it can play as rude sarcasm or being snarky. Posts just leave to much open to interpretation. In you all's "official" duties, you have to be very careful and aware of that.

Anywho, I appreciate you taking the time to discuss this and not assume you are being attacked.

:thumbsup

 

[Darth Kahnt]

To be honest, this is one of the more reasonable mod related threads that I have seen.

I don't know if anyone has noticed but I have not been around much lately and maybe this break has taken away some of my bitterness. :lol But seriously, I think this thread has stayed pretty reasonable overall.

And I know Clutch was joking, it was quite obvious to me he was. But you are right, people interpret things differently. I agree that we need to be able to be professional BUT we are also human beings who need to be able to have some comic relief as well. Being a mod does not mean that your use of humor comes to a screeching hault.

Chris

 

[defstartrooper]

I don't think the idea of showing infraction points in the profile and making it publicly viewable is a good idea. It singles people out and can be embarrassing to that particular individual. When people get an infraction, I think it needs to be between them and the admin.

I can see how it might be embarrasing but maybe that's an extra incentive not to break rules ?

 

[Darth Kahnt]

I can see how it might be embarrasing but maybe that's an extra incentive not to break rules ?

You make a valid point but we also need to respect the privacy of the membership. If someone is in school and get sent to the principals office, the principal doesn't go on the PA and make an announcement that this particular student has been sent to the office and why they were sent..... just an illustration and example. But I understand your point and there is something to be said for that.

 

[nightrider]

The idea of putting the "final straw" post in the ban announcement seems like the right way to go, easy to do and easy to find for anyone who's interested. Maybe even include a few examples, but at least the final post.

 

[Clutch]

But we could ban a member and just make up the offending post....


Oh I'm sorry, being snarky again.

 

[Darkknight0667]

But we could ban a member and just make up the offending post....


Oh I'm sorry, being snarky again.

WOW! That's pretty devious, Clutch. What are you doing on the staff? You should quit and join the troublemakers on this side of the aisle.

BTW, I apologize if I missed the sarcasm/humor in your earlier posts. Too often in the past, some members of the staff took questions like those raised in this thread as personal attacks and responded with lots of attitude, so that's the way that I read yours. Maybe we can add a backwards italics button to indicate sarcasm.

 

[IndyFanChuck]

Forgive me, I don't remember what Trolling is. I think I asked this before, but what is trolling? Is that where you create a fake account to compliment yourself. Because no one ever compliments me!:cry

What is trolling again?

 

[Clutch]

DK, no apology necessary. I was being sarcastic to prove a point and because I'm such a "funny guy", but I don't think it worked.

It goes both ways btw. Sometimes it is hard to tell if people are genuinely concerned or just being nit-picky because they have nothing better to do.

If it's run by humans (the forum), then there has to be a certain amount of trust there. I could shout that this forum is run fairly until I am blue in the face and there will still be those who do not believe me.

We could impliment the offending post thing and I have no objection to it, but who's to say that someone won't blame us of fabricating the post? I know it sounds silly, but it could happen. No?

I'm also not a fan of the visible infraction points. I mean someone could lose their cool once and it would stay with them like a 'scarlet letter'. Perhaps after someone has gotten a certain number of them, the alert comes on?

 

[IndyFanChuck]

Wait, I just read this post. Are you serious? Really man?

I don't even personally know any of the Mods but I have had SEVERAL help me with projects and problems and offer me tons of advice for nearly a year. And I can't imagine how much OTHER crap they help people with.

Really brother..... I don't get it. I always have a saying, even if it's silly: Why worry about getting in trouble for something - unless you are doing it yourself?

I don't know why any Mods would do something like the extreme set of circumstances that would warrant that instance happening. I am not trying to be rude or insult your opinion, but it seems so unlikely. Plus, if they Mods, or one of the mods did that kind of crap, they wouldn't be around here long.

Anyway, lets all go talk about props!

Still doesn't address the potential for abuse issues that I brought up, though.

Here's a scenario:

A couple of the Mods get together at Jay's house tonight. Wackiness ensues and they all get a little silly on cough medicine. They then decide that they are sick of me addressing the shortcomings of how things are run here and go and ban me. They can then say that I had the requisite # of Infraction Points (who can say different?), the offending post was deleted and that it's none of anyone else's business (to use Jay's own words). Bans are permanent here and are not up for review. Problem solved.

I'm not saying that this has ever happened, nor am I accusing anyone. But, it could happen (now or in the future) and there is no way to prove it didn't happen as the "official record states" under the current system. Do you not see the need for more transparency now?

 

[Clutch]

From wikipedia:

"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]"

 

[pennausamike]

So, is every banning permanent?

And I would have to say that I haven't had any sense of moderator conspiracy.
Its just a sad fact of human nature that some folks can't interact without trading barbs.
But on that basis, I could probably think of at least a dozen members who regularly enter posts to reenumerate the past "transgressions" of other posters.
(QMx bashing seems like a regular hobby on this forum.)
Sometimes the comments left are legitimate warnings and other times the comments are just rude and insulting pretending to be helpful.
I don't envy the moderators trying to decide when the line has been crossed.
But I'm not sure how evenly the criteria are applied.

All I know is, I wanted a 3 foot Firefly model and that's looking pretty unlikely.

Mike

 

[GKvfx]

Oh good lord, just because a conspiracy could exist, doesn't mean it will. You guys must be channeling your inner Oliver Stone. :confused Yeah, they can ban you, but I think they have other things to do and consider.

Believe it or not, you gave up you 1st Amendment right to free speech when you signed up for this place. Just as you cannot yell fire in a crowded theater, there are some things you cannot say here. They aren't taking away your right to say them at all, you just can't say them here. There are rules everywhere. Get used to it.

Look, you go around calling your work the "Ultimate" against some well established professional modelmakers, and don't back down or offer good evidence of your claim, you're going to make enemies. Keep trading barbs with people and you are just adding fuel to their fire. There is some scary good talent on this board - pro and non-pro alike. Ron didn't pick his battles well.

I'll say one thing about Ron, when he first posted that he was working on a Firefly and didn't post pics - he was told to put up or shut up. And actually, he did put up. He turned around and did what he said - he made a 3' Firefly. While not a fan of the show or the design, I can see obvious flaws with the master he made when comparing his photos to the references he himself posted. But the larger issue harkens back to the rules. I saw what Ron posted that was the final straw. And it was a cheap shot against someone whose talent I frankly find impeccable and admire.

This isn't anyone's sandbox, it's "their's" (whoever "they" are).

As I like to say at times - Shut up and build the damn model.

Gene (going home to work on a Moebius space Pod kit)

 

[KnightAsylum]

Wow..some paranoid folks around here.:lol
I think the process is fine. I am not nosy nor do I think a mod conspiracy exists.
This is a message board, not a courtroom, I just can't lose sleep over the potential for power abuse.:lol

 

[GATORBAIT9696]

it has happened to me before. it was with a group of local guys in a private thread (because of a certain troll ). One day someone said there was a scalper amongst us/betraying the group. anyway it got heated quick-through all the posts 1 guy said hey shut up or get booted? I got booted because I asked who put him in charge. even though he was not a mod or "elected " leader he pitched a fit and got me booted .. turned out it was him and 2 of his cohorts who were scalping but I was banned and the rest is history.. 1 post asking who made him GOD and I got the boot. so there you have it, it can happen and does.. This did not happen on here-but was a reason for me coming over here.

 

[Darth Kahnt]

I think the process is fine. I am not nosy nor do I think a mod conspiracy exists.
This is a message board, not a courtroom, I just can't lose sleep over the potential for power abuse.:lol

Yeah, we try and do our best. Their truly is no conspiracy. But I think with the size of this forum (as with all bigger forums I think) some people inevitably think that others are out to get them.