Banned Member Question

[Darkknight0667]

Still doesn't address the potential for abuse issues that I brought up, though.

Here's a scenario:

A couple of the Mods get together at Jay's house tonight. Wackiness ensues and they all get a little silly on cough medicine. They then decide that they are sick of me addressing the shortcomings of how things are run here and go and ban me. They can then say that I had the requisite # of Infraction Points (who can say different?), the offending post was deleted and that it's none of anyone else's business (to use Jay's own words). Bans are permanent here and are not up for review. Problem solved.

I'm not saying that this has ever happened, nor am I accusing anyone. But, it could happen (now or in the future) and there is no way to prove it didn't happen as the "official record states" under the current system. Do you not see the need for more transparency now?

 

[Clutch]

Aah, the "Move Along People, There's Nothing To See Here" defense.

Nice.

:rolleyes


Annyway, it's more than just idle curiosity, Jay. What's to stop you guys from disappearing someone that you don't like/don't agree with/is just a general pain in your neck but hasn't actually broken any rules (like me, for example),

I'd ghost you right now if that were the case. :lol

 

[Darkknight0667]

I'd ghost you right now if that were the case. :lol

My point exactly!

 

[Clutch]

No, that's not your point because I cannot ban you just because I don't agree with you or don't like you.

 

[Darkknight0667]

No Clutch, that is my point. What's to stop it from happening?

You (or a group of you) could say that I have enough infraction points and who could say different? Nobody but you and I could see that I didn't, but at that point, I'm banned, and so not around anymore to dispute it.

I'm not saying that anyone has been treated like this, or that any of you would do it (I've had interactions with a number of the staff and don't think any of them are bad guys in general), but the door is there for abuse by someone because of the secretive way that things are handled here.

Do you understand where I'm coming from?

 

[defstartrooper]

Is it not possible to display warning level underneath the name where post counts and location and suchlike is over on the left there <<<<<<

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Is it not possible to display warning level underneath the name where post counts and location and suchlike is over on the left there <<<<<<

That would sure enough let you know who to avoid replying to.

 

[atacpdx]

No, that's not your point because I cannot ban you just because I don't agree with you or don't like you.

Why can't you? What aside from morals is in place to stop you? There are certainly no community wide checks and balances. FYI, I am sure you are being funny Clutch but humor and sarcasm translate poorly in threads like this one where you are posting in an "official" capacity.

 

[RogueSolo]

Last time I checked, on message boards Mod's had the power and general users are supposed to follow the rules, or suffer the consequences.

What makes this place so special? Is it paranoid about the mods day or something? I must not have gotten my invitation :confused

 

[Darkknight0667]

Last time I checked, on message boards Mod's had the power and general users are supposed to follow the rules, or suffer the consequences.

What makes this place so special? Is it paranoid about the mods day or something? I must not have gotten my invitation :confused

It's always "Paranoid About The Mods Day" here, didn't you know? You were on the distribution list. Maybe your server doesn't like you. I'd check into that if I were you.


In reality, it's all about trying to make this the best place it can be. The manner in which RShanko's banning was handled pointed out how the system could be abused by a staff member if they so chose (not that this is what happened). So, by pointing out what could happen, it looks as if people are suggesting ways to add transparency to the system (not take away the Mods power) so that when someone is banned for stuff like this, everyone can see that the guy/girl had it coming and there's no question that it was the right decision.

"We're working for a better tomorrow . . . today."
Sully
Monsters, Inc.

 

[Commander Max]

Still doesn't address the potential for abuse issues that I brought up, though.

Here's a scenario:

A couple of the Mods get together at Jay's house tonight. Wackiness ensues and they all get a little silly on cough medicine. They then decide that they are sick of me addressing the shortcomings of how things are run here and go and ban me. They can then say that I had the requisite # of Infraction Points (who can say different?), the offending post was deleted and that it's none of anyone else's business (to use Jay's own words). Bans are permanent here and are not up for review. Problem solved.

I'm not saying that this has ever happened, nor am I accusing anyone. But, it could happen (now or in the future) and there is no way to prove it didn't happen as the "official record states" under the current system. Do you not see the need for more transparency now?

They can ban anybody for any reason. It's only a few mouse clicks away. The ownership(administrator) of the board has that right, same as in refusal of business. And they can bring you back if they choose.
But the procedure is human based, because how can software tell between somebody making a joke, and trying to start an argument. But that's why they set up rules, but the rules can be abused. And we have differing points of view, which will look fair to some, unfair to others.

As DN is saying how can we trust the moderators? The real answer is, "we can't". We can only hope that they will fairly judge us by our posts, and actions on this board. We cannot ask for anything more. Because some mod duties require them not to say anything public.

But the community has so much mistrust, infighting, jealousy, and what looks like a lot of crazy people. It's almost impossible for the mods decisions not to be questioned. But if the leadership makes you feel uncomfortable, you have the right to not post, go to another board, or not even bother with the whole thing.

If you do have points why make that public, I think it will cause more problems. It might lead to more provocation, or at least ridicule.

 

[Clutch]

If I started banning people willy-nilly, I could possibly get the boot too. No mod acts alone. We all come from diverse backgrounds and geographic locations. I only know what one or two mods even look like. So we're not some group of good buddies who sit around and ban people for no reason.

 

[Commander Max]

I'll bet there are days. :lol

 

[Darkknight0667]

If I started banning people willy-nilly, I could possibly get the boot too. No mod acts alone. We all come from diverse backgrounds and geographic locations. I only know what one or two mods even look like. So we're not some group of good buddies who sit around and ban people for no reason.

Nobody is saying that you are, Clutch.

But, you have to admit that the door is there for potential abuse. Whether you'd use it or not is irrelevant. It's there. So, now that you (and everyone else) know that it's there, you have two options:
1) Bury your head in the sand, cry, "I'd never do that", lock the thread and pretend it never happened;
-- OR --
2) Look for a way to lock that door so that nobody could use it.

You also have two choices about how to look at this thread and the "troublemakers" who are participating (and based on the snarky attitude that I perceive in your responses, that's how you are looking at us):

1) That it was started to cause trouble and stir **** by a few malcontents bent on making a nuisance of themselves;
-- OR --
2) That it shone a light on a potential problem that nobody knew was there and can be used as a learning and building experience for the betterment of the board.

It's all up to you and the rest of the staff.

 

[Clutch]

So how do you propose we stop this 'potential' abuse of power? The forum doesn't run by itself. I'm not calling you a troublemaker, but I fail to see your point.

 

[Darkknight0667]

Here's one suggestion that would add a layer of transparency:

Is it not possible to display warning level underneath the name where post counts and location and suchlike is over on the left there <<<<<<

Having something like this would allow people to see who might be treading on thin ice, so that their disappearance wouldn't raise questions.

Not deleting the offending posts, but marking them somehow might be another (maybe edit in a bold note that the person received a warning for this or that it was the final straw and that they were banned because of it). Let people see who was acting like an ass and that's why they were shown the door.

Canning the "it's nobody's business" attitude whenever anyone questions a something might be another. Nobody gives you a manual for how to handle every situation when you are asked to join the staff of a board (I never got one over at PropSummit, that's for sure), so it's all learned as you go. If someone raises an issue with the way something is/was handled, take them seriously. Don't take it as a personal attack, because it rarely is meant that way. Is there a way to address their concern/question to help make the board better?

 

[Emeldahay]

I saw the Rshanko post in Rels Ent thread and it was 1000% pure troll.:thumbsdown

I think if I hadnt seen it I`d be as nosey as everyone else to know what he said.:lol

 

[atacpdx]

Exactly Emeldahay! I had to go to another board to learn what he posted.

A suggestion mods...

sure prune the offending comment from the thread so it stays on track but copy/paste it into the ban notice thread. Then at least people can see the "evidence" so to speak.

Then we'd have something like....


RSHANKO banned for Trolling. After several previous warnings and infractions, he posted the following in Rel's 1/650th Enterprise thread
"trolling garbage example here".


See. Easy-Peasy!

 

[Darkknight0667]

That's a great idea, Mark! Between that and adding the Infraction Point indicator that defstartrooper suggested, you'd have a transparent system that would have eliminated the need for this entire thread.

So, Clutch, there you have a proposal on how to shut the door on that potential abuse. What say you?

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Exactly Emeldahay! I had to go to another board to learn what he posted.

A suggestion mods...

sure prune the offending comment from the thread so it stays on track but copy/paste it into the ban notice thread. Then at least people can see the "evidence" so to speak.

Then we'd have something like....


RSHANKO banned for Trolling. After several previous warnings and infractions, he posted the following in Rel's 1/650th Enterprise thread
"trolling garbage example here".


See. Easy-Peasy!

You've got me curious as to what he said now. If he was lumped in with Ortiz, it had to be bad.