Bandai 1/72 Red Squadron

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Specific to the Red Jammer, check out Studio Kitbash's thread on greeblie research, and differences from the other Y's. Pursuant to that, check out his run of scanned donor parts, specifically Tiers six and up. I am going to be jumping on board so I can print some stuff rescaled to 1:72, 1:48, 1:144, and see if I can even manage 1:270 or 1:350 for bigger ones. For my own Red Jammer/Red 7 build, I definitely want the pre-assembled substrate subassemblies he's doing.

Related to Red Jammer... As the starboard nacelle was finished as a NASA booster, rather than painted and weathered to match the rest of the ship, I am toying with having some of the sheathing still on that engine, using the Y-Wings from Rebels as inspiration. Whatever I do, I'd like to match it to whatever you do. Much of the ship is set, but the NASA-white-painted part with the American flag is, I would say, open to interpretation. As with the gentleman upthread who's working on putting his feet in the wet cement of Red 11, what you (and I) do with Red 7 will likely set an example, so I want to do it right and not clash.

An update on my Rogue and Renegade Groups... I'm getting grumpy with the shortcuts taken and engineering necessities at the scale of the X-Wing miniatures, and have decided to do them all in 1:144, instead. I have several of the old MPC B-Wings, and only need a couple more. Bandai's 1:144 Falcon is readily get-able. I have their two-pack of 1:144 A-Wings. The U-Wings are pretty cheap in their TIE Striker two-packs.. I now just need to count up how many X- and Y-Wings I need, and look into other ships in that scale (ARC-170, Z-95, Clone Wars Y-Wing...). Your pics with the Death Star suitcase were good inspiration, and I'm going to have the early and late exemplars of Rogue Group backed by bas-relief stations to show the timeline.

 

[Analyzer]

Specific to the Red Jammer, check out Studio Kitbash's thread on greeblie research, and differences from the other Y's. Pursuant to that, check out his run of scanned donor parts, specifically Tiers six and up. I am going to be jumping on board so I can print some stuff rescaled to 1:72, 1:48, 1:144, and see if I can even manage 1:270 or 1:350 for bigger ones. For my own Red Jammer/Red 7 build, I definitely want the pre-assembled substrate subassemblies he's doing.

Related to Red Jammer... As the starboard nacelle was finished as a NASA booster, rather than painted and weathered to match the rest of the ship, I am toying with having some of the sheathing still on that engine, using the Y-Wings from Rebels as inspiration. Whatever I do, I'd like to match it to whatever you do. Much of the ship is set, but the NASA-white-painted part with the American flag is, I would say, open to interpretation. As with the gentleman upthread who's working on putting his feet in the wet cement of Red 11, what you (and I) do with Red 7 will likely set an example, so I want to do it right and not clash.

An update on my Rogue and Renegade Groups... I'm getting grumpy with the shortcuts taken and engineering necessities at the scale of the X-Wing miniatures, and have decided to do them all in 1:144, instead. I have several of the old MPC B-Wings, and only need a couple more. Bandai's 1:144 Falcon is readily get-able. I have their two-pack of 1:144 A-Wings. The U-Wings are pretty cheap in their TIE Striker two-packs.. I now just need to count up how many X- and Y-Wings I need, and look into other ships in that scale (ARC-170, Z-95, Clone Wars Y-Wing...). Your pics with the Death Star suitcase were good inspiration, and I'm going to have the early and late exemplars of Rogue Group backed by bas-relief stations to show the timeline.

Wow, that thread is fascinating and that is just the first two pages. I have to go through the rest when I have more time
Also that donor part thing is very tempting!

I am wondering if the Revell Y-Wing might make a good base for planting on 3-D printed greeblies and other mods. it was cheap (at least when I got a pair from Michael's back in the day at 40% off) and shape/size wise is actually closer to the Bandai's 1/72 than the Fine Molds kit

I am still undecided on painting Red Jammer as the studio model looks (i.e. only being painted on one side)

There is some appeal to using the logic that it had undergone an engine replacement,/repair and was still in the paint shop at the time of the Battle of Yavin. Of course since it was flight ready, just not finished paint-wise, it was pressed into service

As far as you Rogue and Renegade groups, that sounds like a great plan. Apart from the X-Wing game miniatures line, 1/144 seems to be the most complete scale for Start Wars vehicles, between Bandai and the Fine Molds/F-Toys line, I think just about everything has been covered in 1/144

Did F-Toys make an ARC-170 ?

I also seem to remember the Revell pocket kit being close enough to 1/144?

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

The larger Revell ARC-170 is reported to be about 1:60, and the smaller one about 1:85. F-Toys doesn't seem to have done it.I am checking on things like the Titanium Series, but I feel that's too small -- closer to the X-Wing game mini. I will pursue that later. Currently, I've found several 3D models of various types of Z-95 and am vetting them.

In here, we've pretty well got Red nailed down, as of the Battle of Yavin. I have notions for Gold and Blue, and Renegade Group, as well, and may backtrack to fill in Red 8 with the ship from Rogue One as part of filling out all of Rogue Group prior to the fighting just before and in Star Wars (the loss of Red 8, damage to several ships that was only hastily repaired, and Gold Squadron being at just over half-strength -- as the first ones in at that first major victory referred to in Star Wars' opening crawl, they were the most mauled).

Piecing together the Battle of Endor is far more frustrating. First of all, this "assembled" Rebel fleet never has more than twenty-four fighters onscreen in a single shot ("Break off the attack -- the shields are still up). The subsequent shot shows none of the ships from the previous shot, but a smattering of the stragglers deflecting to right and left to avoid the shield. The number that jumped to lightspeed behind the Falcon was only twenty. Many shots are consistent, though, from angle to angle, and for a given amount of context. All while the Flacon is zipping through the fleet to take point, it's escorted by five X-Wings, three B-Wings, and, as we see a bit more of the tail of its escort each time, two A-Wings and two Y-Wings. Those are the ships that jump out immediately after the Falcon (although now four B-Wings), then, after the two A-Wings and two Y-Wings, a bunch of added A- and Y-Wings to bulk out the shot.

I have found myself wondering more and more whether there were more fighters further back, but Rogue Group was taking the lead on making the run on the new Death Star's main reactor, and the others would come in if they failed. Because of the heavy-assault role Gold plays, it makes sense that the Falcon is Gold 1 (note also the fixed-forward heavy blaster cannons she's fitted with for the battle -- same effect that gets used on the reactor, hence my dismissing the EU's "concussion missiles"), and I attribute the B-Wings (three or four or five) to Gold, as well. The only major marking is the light orange circles, which could very easily be also a "dark yellow" -- or "gold". Makes more sense, to me, than making them Blue Group, when they have no blue markings on them anywhere.

Wedge's role seems to be having half his squadron flying cover for Gold Leader. They're hugging the Falcon for most of the furball. I feel like the five fighters that formed up when Lando called for all of Red and Gold to follow him in were the rest of his Red escort (after one A-Wing got piffed), and, if the models had worked the way they were supposed to, some of the B-Wings might have gone in, too. Red 2 is Gray Leader (same actor in the same helmet, anyway), and Red 3 is Green Leader (ditto), so I blot the call-in scene out of my head. It is Red 3 who makes the suicide run on the Executor's bridge, after Lando ordered the other ships to split off and head back to the surface (along with Red 2).

SO! My best take is that, at Scarif, Gold was reduced from twelve to seven, and, at Yavin, from seven to zero. Red lost one at Scarif, with others damaged, and eight more at Yavin, leaving three (two damaged, incidentally). Post-Yavin, as they rebuilt the Group, per Rebels, they had access to A-Wings and the B-Wing prototype. By Endor, Red seems to consist of five X-Wings, five A-Wings, and two Y-Wings. Gold, 3-5 B-Wings. There are five B-Wing pilots in the briefing scene, so I am inclined to go with the maximum implied onscreen number. (Further, the briefing has a bunch of commandos to one side and pilots on the other and the upper deck. I count about fifteen pilots reliably. We may be looking at a briefing of just Gold and Red Squadrons of Rogue Group and the commando team. Besides the five B-Wing pilots, there are five X-Wing pilots, three A-Wing pilots, and one Y-Wing pilot that I can concretely nail down.)

 

[Analyzer]

The larger Revell ARC-170 is reported to be about 1:60, and the smaller one about 1:85. F-Toys doesn't seem to have done it.I am checking on things like the Titanium Series, but I feel that's too small -- closer to the X-Wing game mini. I will pursue that later. Currently, I've found several 3D models of various types of Z-95 and am vetting them.

In here, we've pretty well got Red nailed down, as of the Battle of Yavin. I have notions for Gold and Blue, and Renegade Group, as well, and may backtrack to fill in Red 8 with the ship from Rogue One as part of filling out all of Rogue Group prior to the fighting just before and in Star Wars (the loss of Red 8, damage to several ships that was only hastily repaired, and Gold Squadron being at just over half-strength -- as the first ones in at that first major victory referred to in Star Wars' opening crawl, they were the most mauled).

Piecing together the Battle of Endor is far more frustrating. First of all, this "assembled" Rebel fleet never has more than twenty-four fighters onscreen in a single shot ("Break off the attack -- the shields are still up). The subsequent shot shows none of the ships from the previous shot, but a smattering of the stragglers deflecting to right and left to avoid the shield. The number that jumped to lightspeed behind the Falcon was only twenty. Many shots are consistent, though, from angle to angle, and for a given amount of context. All while the Flacon is zipping through the fleet to take point, it's escorted by five X-Wings, three B-Wings, and, as we see a bit more of the tail of its escort each time, two A-Wings and two Y-Wings. Those are the ships that jump out immediately after the Falcon (although now four B-Wings), then, after the two A-Wings and two Y-Wings, a bunch of added A- and Y-Wings to bulk out the shot.

I have found myself wondering more and more whether there were more fighters further back, but Rogue Group was taking the lead on making the run on the new Death Star's main reactor, and the others would come in if they failed. Because of the heavy-assault role Gold plays, it makes sense that the Falcon is Gold 1 (note also the fixed-forward heavy blaster cannons she's fitted with for the battle -- same effect that gets used on the reactor, hence my dismissing the EU's "concussion missiles"), and I attribute the B-Wings (three or four or five) to Gold, as well. The only major marking is the light orange circles, which could very easily be also a "dark yellow" -- or "gold". Makes more sense, to me, than making them Blue Group, when they have no blue markings on them anywhere.

Wedge's role seems to be having half his squadron flying cover for Gold Leader. They're hugging the Falcon for most of the furball. I feel like the five fighters that formed up when Lando called for all of Red and Gold to follow him in were the rest of his Red escort (after one A-Wing got piffed), and, if the models had worked the way they were supposed to, some of the B-Wings might have gone in, too. Red 2 is Gray Leader (same actor in the same helmet, anyway), and Red 3 is Green Leader (ditto), so I blot the call-in scene out of my head. It is Red 3 who makes the suicide run on the Executor's bridge, after Lando ordered the other ships to split off and head back to the surface (along with Red 2).

SO! My best take is that, at Scarif, Gold was reduced from twelve to seven, and, at Yavin, from seven to zero. Red lost one at Scarif, with others damaged, and eight more at Yavin, leaving three (two damaged, incidentally). Post-Yavin, as they rebuilt the Group, per Rebels, they had access to A-Wings and the B-Wing prototype. By Endor, Red seems to consist of five X-Wings, five A-Wings, and two Y-Wings. Gold, 3-5 B-Wings. There are five B-Wing pilots in the briefing scene, so I am inclined to go with the maximum implied onscreen number. (Further, the briefing has a bunch of commandos to one side and pilots on the other and the upper deck. I count about fifteen pilots reliably. We may be looking at a briefing of just Gold and Red Squadrons of Rogue Group and the commando team. Besides the five B-Wing pilots, there are five X-Wing pilots, three A-Wing pilots, and one Y-Wing pilot that I can concretely nail down.)

That is some pretty in depth analysis, I love it!

It all makes sense to me and of course ILM was limited by needing physical models for those shots.

It may have been a lot more varied if they did CGI, or then again, they may have just copied and pasted to save time/money

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

I want you to have options as the completion of Battle of Yavin Red Squadron draws nigh, as for what you might tackle next. I already know you're using the 1:144 X-Wings and U-Wings for "Blue Squadron". I won't belabor that again, but I found someone who sells a lovely assortment of replacement decals for the various kits, including U-Wing markings in other squadron colors -- I'm contemplating Red or Gold... Also a few alternate sheets for my Red Squadron A-Wings, to supplement the stock "rust stripe" color scheme with actual squadron markings. Let me know if you're interested and I'll send you a link to his store. He's the one who did the Red Jammer decals I mentioned a couple pages back.

 

[Analyzer]

I want you to have options as the completion of Battle of Yavin Red Squadron draws nigh, as for what you might tackle next. I already know you're using the 1:144 X-Wings and U-Wings for "Blue Squadron". I won't belabor that again, but I found someone who sells a lovely assortment of replacement decals for the various kits, including U-Wing markings in other squadron colors -- I'm contemplating Red or Gold... Also a few alternate sheets for my Red Squadron A-Wings, to supplement the stock "rust stripe" color scheme with actual squadron markings. Let me know if you're interested and I'll send you a link to his store. He's the one who did the Red Jammer decals I mentioned a couple pages back.

Thanks, but I generally prefer to paint the stripings simply because of how I do my painting/weathering which would not be kind to decals. Plus I am paranoid that 10 years or so down the line, the decals will start lifting. Of course that is based on old Warhammer 40K decals, and admittedly I did not seal them or even probably properly put them on a gloss base

The idea of a Red or even Gold U-Wing is very appealing. I have started scratch building a 1/72 one and have also in the meantime got an amazing 3D stl of one

I

 

[Analyzer]

The larger Revell ARC-170 is reported to be about 1:60, and the smaller one about 1:85. F-Toys doesn't seem to have done it.I am checking on things like the Titanium Series, but I feel that's too small -- closer to the X-Wing game mini. I will pursue that later. Currently, I've found several 3D models of various types of Z-95 and am vetting them.

Also, if you are looking for a 3D model of an ARC-170, I can give you one

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Thanks, but I generally prefer to paint the stripings simply because of how I do my painting/weathering which would not be kind to decals. Plus I am paranoid that 10 years or so down the line, the decals will start lifting. Of course that is based on old Warhammer 40K decals, and admittedly I did not seal them or even probably properly put them on a gloss base

"You must do what you feel is right, of course." I have learned a lot about decals since I first started modeling. These days I make sure I cut as close to the image as I can, split it where necessary to go over a sharp surface feature, and have a reliable stock of MicroSet and MicroSol on-hand. The one is good for getting them to snug down to a flat-ish surface, the other, to curved surfaces. Then there's the sandwich...

That's... an ideal, of sorts. I've experimented with it, and tweaked it a bit where applicable. For instance, as I said about not needing MicroSol if the surface is flat. At any rate, I do weathering powders and oils between steps 7 and 9, along with the misting. At the same time, sometimes I use decals and sometimes I mask and paint. So I quite understand your approach. I hardly ever use a full decal load, and often add markings not included on the sheet from elsewhere. I have, from somewhere long forgotten, a small page of "NO STEP" and "DANGER — INTAKE" markings in aurebesh that are small and innocuous enough, but add a nice bit of visual excitement to a model we didn't see clearly.

I also like the idea of a New Republic era "kill marks" system, as shown on the covers of the X-Wing comics. Maybe Renegade can have that practice, but Rogue didn't.

The idea of a Red or even Gold U-Wing is very appealing. I have started scratch building a 1/72 one and have also in the meantime got an amazing 3D stl of one

I can't wait. I love the implicit reliability of certain technologies in the GFFA. Antigrav is so indestructible that Luke's thirdhand X-34 landspeeder, on a backwater, subsistence-farming planet, has no landing skids or wheels or any other kind of backup. It's why I don't put landing gear on my B-Wings -- there are no hatches for such on the model, and, by the Prequels, we see many more starships resting on a repulsorlift cushion rather than physical components.

Similarly, wing actuators. It's an integral feature of the T-65. The Imperial shuttle isn't a combat craft, but even their transports are combat-capable. Those wings rotate through over ninety degrees. Or the V-19 Torrent starfighters in Clone Wars. Their wings rotate down about the same amount, and the tail fin rotates down a full one-eighty! On a combat craft! All three winglike items are rotated from above to below the cockpit as part of takeoff. Those mechanisms have to be so robust and undamageable that these are routinely incorporated without thought, the way we'd incorporate wheels on landing gear. Then we got the U-Wing, and seeing it go from wings closed in a dive, to wings swept to stall and climb -- those things are repeatedly "flapping" in a battle. Almost an ornithopter.

Also, if you are looking for a 3D model of an ARC-170, I can give you one

Oh, that would be lovely. I was going to be hunting down Clone Wars and two-seater Y-Wings next, after I finish with the Z-95 options. That'll save me some hunting.

 

[Analyzer]

pm sent

 

[Analyzer]

as far as my weathering process, this guys video shows the same steps I take
with the oil filters/washes and dry brushing
great tutorial of sorts in addition to that incredible build

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

I hope you've been making even incremental progress on this whole ambitious project of yours since July. I've referred back to this thread several times as I've been prepping my own. This is not directly related to what you're doing, but I wanted to read you in and get your gut instinct -- and maybe if you ever tackle it yourself in some form, you'll carry what we come up with into your own take...

I've looked at all the B-Wing studio model reference out there, as well as the concept art, paintings, and any other info proximal to ROTJ. I've looked at the old model kits, the Kenner toy -- anything extant at the time. And now I want to take the paucity of visual data and come up with a way to convey five of these as Gold Squadron ships, and which ones, at that. The orange rondels washed out in the filming process -- probably deliberately -- so I can easily accept those as "really" being a more golden color, and squadron markings. I want to do better at distinguishing ship from ship, though. Notions?

 

[Analyzer]

I have been staring at my Revell and Fine Molds Y-Wing and a few times got close to breaking out the masking tape to convert the Yellow markings to Red, but always find something else to grab my attention

As far as the B-Wings, that is a tough one

As as I know there were only two studio models made and the only real marking differences was the dot vs no dot. There is a difference in the grey colors on the wing tips and canopy as well

This post here has some side by side pics of the various marking differences

Bandai 1/72 B-wing differences between SDCC limited edition and regular

The SDCC LImited Edition one came with one battery operated LED for the engines. Both versions include all the clear pars for lighting but the limited edition included the Bandai Yellow LED which runs off a watch style battery. You can buy these as standalone pieces on places like Amazon...

www.therpf.com

At any rate, none of that really gives us much to go on

Was the Orange Dot the leader (cag)?

Or was not dots the leader and maybe something about the dot changed in designation (Like stripes added to it?

I would tend to think the orange dot was the leader going by the double 00 (or "Head Nut" or "Double Nuts") typical of CAG birds as well as them having more colorful markings than the rest of the squad

Obviously they did not do that with the X-Wings, at least not in Red

But B-Wings were supposed to be Mon Cal ships so maybe they did things a little different

Maybe even the difference in grey vs blue grey color is enough to make them Leaders from two different squads )one from Blue and one from Grey that were cobbled together last minute

At this point you could really do anything from adding some strips on the long main wing, or maybe some kind of additional striping on the cone behind the cockpit

This person here came up with some really cool markings

B-wing Squads by MarcusStarkiller on DeviantArt

www.deviantart.com

Another possibility is to use the small raise details as marking points like below

I think they only had 3 in a group together so maybe they have nothing for the leader since they have the dot, then the ndt will only have one stripe and the next will have two?

So options on left used are the small raised bumps, but those are really small
Alternative is the larger rectangles
And of course third is just adding larger stripes

All these apart from the dotted one coud be a way to represent "02"

Then for the left and right wings you can do something like this

Very subtle for sure and I am sure there could be better options but extrapolating from the orange dot that was all I could think of