back to the future nike mag scratch build wip (pic heavy)

Discussion in 'Replica Props' started by krispikarim, Aug 11, 2015.

  1. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    For the past few years, i have seen people buying the kmags ( nike mag knockoffs) and modifying them to become as accurate as possible, and for a while i was thinking about doing that, but to me spending $230+ on kmags, then heavily modifying them to become kinda accurate doesnt seem that worth it to me, so 2 days ago i decided to begin making my own mags from scratch. I am near done with the base for the left foot, and when i fully clean it up, i will mold it, and cast it in a rubber ( i have progress pics!!! lol)
    IMG_0581.JPG this is just a block of foam board i cut into shape with some templates i drew
    IMG_0584.JPG i added air dry clay around the sides using another template ans reference when i was sculpting
    IMG_0592.JPG i added a thin layer of polyester resin to prevent the sir dry clay from shrinking and cracking
    IMG_0593.JPG
    IMG_0596.JPG i then filled all the imperfections with plaster ( i didnt want to use bondo, because plaster is alot easier to sand)
    IMG_0600.JPG i sanded it till it got smooth, and i added another thin coat of polyester resin just to seal it

    IMG_0603.JPG then using some templates i made, i cut out the sole base in foam board
    IMG_0604.JPG i sculpted the side with the the air dry clay and i created the grid by just pressing into the clay with the back of a cheap foam brush i found
    IMG_0612.JPG
    IMG_0609.JPG since air dry clay shrinks and cracks a few minutes after i felt the clay is dry, and no longer moist i added a thin layer of polyester resin to stop the clay from cracking
    IMG_0615.JPG and i added a coat of spray paint just to make sure that the grid pattern was still visible, and thats all i have so far, pls leave some feedback if you can, thank you
     
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  2. MrSouthpaw

    MrSouthpaw Sr Member

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    Interested, will subscribe.
    @cavx, you should see this.

    Will you trying to light up the shoes?

    How?
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
  3. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    MrSouthpaw yeah im gonna add lights, and im just gonna do it the same as people do it with the v2 kmags because its gonna be the same set up
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
  4. MrSouthpaw

    MrSouthpaw Sr Member

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    Sounds good.

    In fact, the whole project sounds awesome. I'm definitely excited to see someone actually go for a ground-up Mag build.
     
  5. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    @MrSouthpaw thanks, but im doing it because like i really like the shoe since i grew up watching bttf, but one of the main reasons im doing it 100% myself is because in my opinion things are alot more satisfying in the end if u did it urself, but one of my main pushes is that i really want to expand my portfolio, so like i cant just have "modded sneakers" i want to have fully built sneakers that are as accurate as i could possibly make them, i guess i just have alot of reason to do it lol
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
  6. MrSouthpaw

    MrSouthpaw Sr Member

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    Well, it definitely looks like you're getting somewhere with them.
     
  7. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Pass the pop corn please. Subbed with interest.
     
  8. MitasTouch

    MitasTouch Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Nike released their patterns so that part may be a little easier as far as research goes.
     
  9. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    And here they are :)

    [​IMG]

    So what I am interested in is seeing how you (@krispykarim) build your uppers. Whilst I think there is a minimum of just 5 parts, as many as 18 might be needed to make this properly.
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    cavx thanks, but im not really planning out the uppers right now, because i really want to get the soles right first, and then ill worry about the upper (but i do use a scaled print out as reference when im sculpting), but thanks alot for showing me the nike released patterns lol, i really didnt know they existed, and im sure ill be using them in the near future
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
  11. Klen

    Klen Well-Known Member

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    Subbed too can't wait to see how accurate you'll have it done ! :thumbsup
     
  12. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Makes sense to do start at the soles. I am going to do some more on my pair today, hopefully.

    Tip on the patterns, you scale them based on that footprint part, so again, it is a good idea to have your soles ready.
     
  13. JLeezy23

    JLeezy23 Sr Member

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    It is best to start with the soles, because you can add to the toe and use more sole that would make trimming the upper cloth toe either easier or even not needed at all. I'm still looking for a suitable upper cloth to match either the 2011 release or the 1989 version, I do have some that look good to me imo but not at all accurate to either version :/
     
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  14. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    krispikarim When you made your mid-sole, did you by chance layer it up in foam or core-flute? I am currently re-working a pair of V1 mid-soles and wondering now if I would be better off just scratch building the pair. I chose the V1 soles over the V2 because of the shape of the part on the arch. It has a shape much closer to the real MAG than the V2 does and this has bothered me for quite some time.

    I built up the toes and slimmed the heel and generally reshaped the soles. In all honestly, it has been difficult to get these to the stage they are at and keep them symmetrical.

    Layering up core-flute would be easier because once a master part is made, you simply flip it over to make the opposite part. I did this for my master upper patterns where they are made from 1mm Polypropylene. They are clear and I just flip them over for left and right and they are much easier to trace than paper or card patterns.

    @JLeezy Is the cloth you are looking at stretchy or not? I have been playing around with both types and I have to say, I prefer a non-stretch material for the uppers. You get nice sock toe with the stretchy stuff, but PITA to work the other parts and keep the seams in line.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
  15. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    well, when i made the mid sole its just that foam board (foam core) that i used a layer technique to make it, then i filled the sides with clay so i could get the shape i wanted, and i used a different print outs of the silhouette of the nike mag i scaled to the size i wanted ( you can see the print out in the first pic of the first post) and i just used it a reference on what of the shape i wanted to fix of the midsole, i think its pretty straight forward and quick to do, i finished the full midsole in 4 hours total of work, but whats gonna take the longest is actually molding it
     
  16. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yeah molding it will be fun. Also making a symmetrically opposite sole as well.

    I am about to go have a play with some core-flue (sign material and I have almost 50 sheets in stock) and some superglue.
     
  17. Jedifyfe

    Jedifyfe Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Interesting. The outrigger looks a little too concaved though.
     
  18. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    yeah, but since i have the templates i made all i have to do is flip them and i have everything pretty much the same, i just have to be careful not to build up too much clay, and lol, i literally use this technique for all props i make, except i usually dont use clay, i just fill the sides with plaster and sand it, then i mold the prop base
     
  19. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    yeah i know i am going to re sculpt it, it was because it was just gonna be a test sculpt, but i wanted to test how the grid pattern would react wen i seal it with the resin,because gravity would pull the resin down on the bottom parts of the squares of the grid, im gonna end up re sculpting anyways, because that sculpt isnt the cleanest either
     
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  20. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    You making a wear pair or display pair?
     
  21. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    i want to be able to wear it

    - - - Updated - - -
    @cavx i am going to be molding the soles in polyeurathane rubber with a kinda high darameter (im thinking from 50 to 70), and i meant that the technique i used to make the mid sole is how i make alot of other things, and once i mold the prop, or in this case the sole, i can cast the sole from plastics to rubbers
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2015
  22. JLeezy23

    JLeezy23 Sr Member

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    Nice! What size is this? From the looks i would guess size 9? For the sole texture, I seen paint drops used and dried on before casting, there's also "popcorn texture" spray that people use for their walls/ceilings sold at hardware places. Depending on which look you're going for, the paint drops seem thicker and controllable, while the spray stuff is more fine and grainy looking.
    cavx the first test was stretch fabric, but spray glued to the foam frame so it was stiff where needed, the only stretch I used was to wrap around the frame and to wrap around the funger pull area. Other than that, no stretch is really needed, its just the look of the weave that is needed for show/accuracy
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
  23. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Nice. I am keen to see how you do this. Is darameter the same as shore hardness? is 50 to 70 for the midsole or out sole?

    I am inspired by your work, so today I had a play with some custom MAG stuff as well.

    I have been working on these for a while, but they really need too much work to make these work, so I probably just used them for profiles.

    [​IMG]

    So after a reality check on how much work these need, I decided to have a go at a scratch build using layers of core-flute (sign plastic).

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I kind of have an advantage as I have various V2s in pieces right now. The parts are in backwards just to show the fit.

    The profile of the foot frame inside the mid-sole is supposed to be higher at the heel than it is at the ball of the foot, so why I was grinding the V1 soles out, but I am almost through the base now and still don't have the recesses I need for the outer soles to sit in. I can get both the shape and flatness I need by layering this up and because of the type of plastic it is, glues really well with liquid superglue.

    Like was discussed earlier, I made a master template and traced and flipped it to make this pair. When this is done, I will place the soles onto the flat bed scanner (with a steel rule for reference of scale) and then import the image into SketchUp which will allow me to scale the patterns to fit the uppers. That is the plan anyway :)

    Texture: I am thinking Vaseline and sand when I am ready to do mine. You have to be careful with what you use as some stuff can react with the silicone and you end up with a big gooey mess that never sets. I've found this out twice now with two very different base materials. I know both Vaseline and sand will be "safe" as is the core-flute as I have used that before as mold walls.

    Uppers: With the exception of 3mm Neoprene, I want to avoid stretch if I can. The Neo works but is too hot to wear and does not come in the right colour. It can be sheathed in a different fabric, but having made a start on that, is way more work than I first though. At least I worked out the hidden seam. The hardest part and where I am right now is the laces. They just stumped me and why I shelved that for now.
     

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  24. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    @cavx yeah darameter is the hardness, and i meant 50 to 70 for the clear sole itself, if u cast a midsole on anything over a 50a it would be a pretty stiff and uncomfortable midsole, but im not 100% sure what i am gonna use, because these numbers are just based off my experiences with polyurethane rubber, but i have reynolds am (smooth on store) near me, so when i go to buy the rubber i can just ask them for their opinion , and your midsoles look good so far, the magic of basic prop building techniques lol
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2015
  25. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    yeah, lol, your exactly right
     
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  26. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    cavx lol ive been spelling darameter wrong, its durometer woops
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
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  27. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    It depends on where you buy the product from.

    I have two local suppliers. One is a craft shop and sells pretty much everything related to molding and casting. The other is a specialized fiber-glass place that also has a range of elastomers. The difference between this guys product range and the other is that I can place an order for a specific shore hardness, but I have to buy the minimum product amount about which is about 40% more costly than the same weight kit from the other guys. The true beauty is that if I want a spongy mid-sole, then I can actually place an order for a AA-20 elastomer and continue to use AA-65 for the out-sole. So for one offs, expensive. If I was doing a run, then his bulk pack is actually 10% less for the same weight. Again, I would have to have a need to buy the bulk pack.

    All the products are clear and you mix pigments into them. I have a range of solid and transparent pigments now in my stash.

    If I do go this route, the other thing I can do is mold and cast my parts as normal, mix a small batch of white rubber and used that to bond the mid-sole to the out-sole. Because it is the same material, it will still fuse to itself. Also what I could do is vacuum bag the parts so there is no air trapped during the bonding stage either. Let it set up under vacuum over night and it won't break, ever.
     
  28. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    oh ok, but i think im just gonna go the smooth on route, because the only products i have experience in is smooth on and cheap silicone caulking, but i really like smooth on's supplier near me because the employees really help alot to know exactly what product i am looking for, but the only down side is its pretty expensive, but the quality is really good, so ima just look for the rubber there, but if i just want to do a one off cast i can just buy the "trial" size and im pretty sure it would have enough to cast both midsoles (the trail size is a ok price) but for the clear out soles im gonna have to look for some alternative rubber, because for clear rubbers smooth on's is just too expensive
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2015
  29. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    That does not matter where you go. Clear IS expensive. Do you have a vacuum chamber?
     
  30. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    - - - Updated - - -

    i know clear is expensive but smooth on is 200+for a gallon, which is their smallest unit, and nope i dont have one
     
  31. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    A gallon is 4.5 litrs! The same amount will cost over $400 here.

    You can get away with not having a vacuum chamber on solid colours, but you end up with clear parts that look like they are made from a soft drink.
     
  32. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    cavx with the smooth on its a polyurethane rubber, so i think you dont need a vaccum chamber, i thought u only had to degas silicones
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
  33. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Anything you mix Part A with a Part B will need degassing. As you stir the pot to mix the two parts, you will by default mix in air. That air has to be pulled out or you end up with bubbles in your parts. As I said, you can get away with a solid colour, but bubbles in clear will stand out.

    I don't seem to have my fail photos on hand where I did not either have the vacuum chamber or did not know how to use it. Some of those parts came out almost white from the amount of bubbles trapped.
     
  34. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    i think it might just depend on the product you are using, because i learned how to mold in school, i am a technical theatre major, and my teacher taught us to use some rubbers that were clear, and we didnt degas them, and bubbles didnt show up because he told us to just to high pour to eliminate most bubbles and he said that silicones should be degassed tho,and ive seen the guys at reynolds am cast with the product i want to use and they didnt degas it, but they didnt end up with bubble, so i dont know, i guess ill try, and if i end up with bubbles ill just have to end up getting a degassing chamber,
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2015
  35. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    @cavx i think your right, but im gonna just test it out once, and if it doesnt work out, ill just buy a degassing chamber (because i might end up needing it for future projects also, might as well get it for this one)
     
  36. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    A vacuum chamber is a very handy tool to own. Mine will soon double duty as a reverse (female tool) vacuum form system. I just need to swallow hard and buy that fiber-glass kit to finish the rig.

    Clear rubbers like polyurethane and elastomers are thick like honey. If they get bubbles during the mix or even the pour, they can't just rise up to the top and pop. The need help. They need to pulled up and expanded to the point where their surface tension is too thin to support them.

    I made a video on degassing if it helps.



    I don't degas anywhere near as long as in my video anymore as I have learned that you only need between 2 and 4 minutes with the product I am using. The resin will actually boil under vacuum, and this helps the exotherm kick in. Given the limited potlife it has, you don't want it gelling up during the pour.

    Having said that, when I did the texture and splatter on my V2s, I mixed and degassed, then let it sit for an hour before working it. It was thick and I was able to get a pretty cool result by taking a small pointy stick, dip it in the gel state urethane and touch it to the sole of the shoe. It would string really fine and leave a small pimple on the initial point of contact. Very time consuming though and why I will add texture to the master part.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2018
  37. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    oh ok, thanks, so i guess ima start saving up for a vaccum chamber lol
     
  38. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Not sure what they are worth in the US, but here in Oz, $1800, so I built mine for about 1/3rd that. Do your research and enjoy bubble free casting.
     
  39. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    yeah, here in the US they arnt thaaaat expensive, i can get one that can hold up to a gallon pail for about $200
     
  40. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Make sure it can pull a full -30" and if it does, totally worth the investment.

    My hoses were the most expensive part at about $350. The pump itself was only 103 delivered. The rest was the chamber.
     
  41. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    oh ok, thanks
     
  42. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    So I have finished the underside of my new custom soles. I went back to my reference pics and had to slim them a bit as well as increase the angles of the part where the inner wings attach. I also butchered one of the V1 soles where I cut the middle flat part out and this allowed me to lay the vertical boarder out flat for a template of the profile.
     
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  43. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    have you sealed the edges of your core flute? because i just realized what that material is, and when you seal it with something ( like to close off the hole ish things on the side of that board) that could add some size to your material, even if it just might be a little, i think that could cuase some trouble fitting the outsoles to your scratch mid soles
     
  44. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Not yet. I am thinking of using some of the urethane to coat the parts. I keep checking the fit ever time I make a change or add something.
     
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  45. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015
  46. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    ok, so i decided that the vid i posted today was actually more of a why, instead of a how, so i will be shooting a version 2 of the video tomorrow, actually going in depth of what my plan is for the build
     
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  47. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Look forward to it :)

    I have that "Venus leather", the #40 poly spun super strong thread and worked out the tensions on my light industrial sewing machine. So whilst time is a factor, am hoping to make a start on some more accurate uppers soon.
     
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  48. krispikarim

    krispikarim Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  49. MitasTouch

    MitasTouch Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I'm rooting for your project with making accurate uppers. I have an idea if you achieve it and want to sell. I want to get some HCs just for the soles and heel cups. Then use the new uppers, your clear soles, and cloneprops ankle buckle. I think I also saw you say something about making accurate ankle bubbles. Also if you get the NIKE and MAG letters on the market I would use those as MPs aren't 100% accurate. I will make my own swoosh as the size will differ depending on the size of shoe. Put those all together and there will be a pretty impressive pair of MAGs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
  50. cavx

    cavx Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    One of my next projects will be heel cups with proper inch tall MAG lettering.
     

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