AvP and AvPr discussion

[cacador]

Let's face it, no one here probably liked these movies a whole lot. I just wanted to talk about the pros and cons of these movies and maybe see what could have been fixed to make them better. I've seen random comments on this in other threads and decided to make a dedicated topic for it. Please no talking about Star Trek, the new Star Wars movies, Michael Bay explosions, etc. Keep it to AVP and AVPR please.

I'm new to the forums so I will explain a little about myself so that my take on these films is understood a little more. I was born in '83 and Predator has been my favorite movie since it came out. P2 was fun but didn't have the same feel as the original. I wasn't much into comics but rather since I was an only child I grew up playing video games. I was hooked on the AVP PC games and even the AVP arcade game! As I got more into the series I eventually read some of the comics but not a lot. So my point of view entirely is from the movies and games and not a lot from the comics. If any one has a good resource site to purchase the comics I would appreciate it; would love to learn more! =D

I'd like to start with the cons of the movies to end on a good note with the pros.

AVP CONS: these are my major gripes with the film, I'm sure there are a lot of little ones but these stood out the most to me.

-PG-13

-Why is Weyland alive in this time period?

-The first Pred dying immediatley was fine but then the celtic immediatley after?

-The extra long tail on the alien.

-The plasmacaster used to hunt aliens? They are horrible for that(based from video games).

-The last predator not realizing he has an embryo in him yet he detcts one inside of the scientist.

-The queen running like a damn T-Rex and not very bug like as in the Aliens film.

-The look of the predator after removing his bio. Too many teeth and I'm not a fan of the mandibles stretching out as far as they did when roaring.

-The OMG are they going to make out scene.

-Stiff movements from the predator actors, they should have been more graceful and fluid in movement like KPH.


AVP PROS: What I thought the movie did bring positvely to the series.

-The storyline. I thought it tied well to real world culture as far as civilizations being wiped out.

-The new bios and weapons. Chopper preds, celtic preds, shirukans, pretty awesome!

-The ever changing temple. Unpredictability, the way preds would want it.



AVPR CONS:

-The storyline. I doubt the predators would have let a contaminated body onto their ship and as I saw in a thread some where "Leave out the Dawson's Creek crap and just show some action".

-The sheriff walking into wolf in the forest.

-Predalien feeding embryos into people. I might have missed this in a comic somewhere?


AVPR PROS:

-Great character acting from who played wolf. He had a real sense of the predator.

-The feel of the movie. It brought back the original movies. The forest with the predator, the dark enclosed sewer with the aliens, the city in chaos from P2, and the strong female role as in the Alien series.

-Again, the new toys the pred had. Although I thought they were proximity mines at first. =(

-The blonde girl getting a gruesome death, those kids deserved to die. You know it, I know it, the predator didn't, we just got lucky.

-The score. The music was closer to the original movies than the first AVP.



In summation it looks like I liked AVPR a little more. Please don't ban me. I strongly believe it is because of the portrayal of the predator and not the actual film. The predators in AVP looked horrible with out bios and moved nothing like predators should. The video games captured these things better.

Your turn to post what you liked and didn't like about these two films.

 

[cacador]

After reading this if you combine the pros from both it would have been one awesome movie.

An ever-changing temple to hunt aliens in. Predators that move gracefully and are fluid in motion. Cool new bios and weapons. Making this film should have been simple, damn them for adding anything else!

 

[munson]

AVP:
Cons:

-bad acting by the overall cast, including Predators and especially the humans.

-didn't have a "Predator" feeling to it. I mean "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"? Seriously! WTH?

-Poor quality in the Scar Mask.

-Having two Predators die off rather quick really "upset" me. The first one wasn't bad, but like you said in having the Celtic Pred die right after?

-I really never liked the "tank" look for the armor.

-PG13

Pros:

-It did give us some cool new bios and weapons.

-The overall concept of the movie, Predators came to earth, etc...was actually really good. But it went downhill from there.

-The temple was pretty cool.


AVPR:
Cons:

-WAY too dark!

-Storyline could have been better!

-Wolf died! Seriously, he was so badass during the entire movie until the end!

-Terrible fight scene at the end. Typical "Pred kills alien, alien kills Pred" crap.

-If it wasn't for Wolf being such a badass, I would have a hard time paying attention to the story line....needed work!


Pros:

-WOLF! Arguably the most badass Pred until we see the new movie.

-Went back to the traditional, slim-downed armor look.

-Dual Plasma canons and other sweet weapons!

-The Pred/alien wasn't too bad looking.

-The ending left it open for another, which I hope Fox has nothing to do with it! I'd rather see The Hunter's Lair do the next movie. I mean, members here could make better costumes then what the AVP gave us.

 

[panik33]

i have to say i enjoyed the AVP and AVPR series i cant help it yes i can see the faults in it like as munson said "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" pred would have picked up the plasma caster and blasted her head of like the little bitch she is they where just trying to make another ripley but failed

i have to say i liked the preds in AVP i liked the way the looked and acted how big and badass they looked all huge and amoured like as munson said a TANK i know its not like P1 or P2 but i still think its damn cool

i didnt enjoy AVPR so much because of the fact i couldnt see it and i didnt realy like the situation wolf was in and they eay he died the usa wouldnt nuke a ******* town

well thats my say

 

[cacador]

Yeah, I didn't mind the tank armor look. I guess it's up to the individual predator for what they're wearing. Literally wolf is probably the only reason AVPR is some what watchable, everything else was pretty much like, wtf? I did like his power gauntlet that he did an uppercut with to get out of the sewers.

 

[skull collector]

well i have to say that i like all the pred movies even though there was a few things in each movie that i would of changed .. but the fact is since im a fan of the films i over looked those things im just a predator fan ..
I cant wait to see the new predators movie ...wich might also have a few things that we may not like but thats ok cause we are big predator fans thanks for reading (live for the hunt die with honor)

 

[Blade3327]

Let's face it, no one here probably liked these movies a whole lot.

I actually loved the first AVP. Thought it was terrific. Really, it was shot stylishly, had some great designs (yeah, I said it), and a unique plot loosely based from the comics. But of course, with a new environment and backstory to everything.

AVP-R, now that was another story... a terrible one that I'm surprised FOX even allowed to happen. I hate it because it suffered from everything that a b-movie has. Stock characters, simple plot, bad writing, bad acting, too much of an homage to take seriously, and I'm not really a fan of Wolf. Also, I might add that the guy who played Wolf also played the Preds in the first AVP. At least Scar, for sure.

 

[munson]

well i have to say that i like all the pred movies even though there was a few things in each movie that i would of changed .. but the fact is since im a fan of the films i over looked those things im just a predator fan ..
I cant wait to see the new predators movie ...wich might also have a few things that we may not like but thats ok cause we are big predator fans thanks for reading (live for the hunt die with honor)

Don't get me wrong collector, like you I liked the movies and overlooked those features, but I just think they could have done better. That's all.

 

[munson]

I actually loved the first AVP. Thought it was terrific. Really, it was shot stylishly, had some great designs (yeah, I said it), and a unique plot loosely based from the comics. But of course, with a new environment and backstory to everything.

AVP-R, now that was another story... a terrible one that I'm surprised FOX even allowed to happen. I hate it because it suffered from everything that a b-movie has. Stock characters, simple plot, bad writing, bad acting, too much of an homage to take seriously, and I'm not really a fan of Wolf. Also, I might add that the guy who played Wolf also played the Preds in the first AVP. At least Scar, for sure.

Ian Whyte did play Scar, so your good on that one. I agree with the plot to AVPR and the plot for AVP. I really liked the fact that they took Mayan civilization and made it that Predators taught them. Funny thing is, last night on the Discovery channel, that was on.

I guess my dislike wasn't exactly about the "tank" armor as much as the acting could have been a little more "predish" imo. Although during the end where Scar jump and did a 360 and shoved the spear through the Alien Queens head was badass-and then roared at her....that was awesome!

As many here, I loved the movies, just think they could have been better.

 

[cacador]

I enjoyed the movies a lot. I was just wondering if your guys' thoughts were the same as mine. Scar definitly was bad ass as was wolf. The celtic surviving the first fight would have meant more action in the AVP movie, even if he died in another scene it would have been more action.

What is every one elses opinions on these films?

 

[MotoGuy75]

Hello,

I enjoyed both movies myself.However, I didn't like that in both movies the Predators were killed off,in the first one,way to quickly.Secondly,I don't understand what it is with all Alien and Predator movies,they are always so ***king dark,you can never see the creatures,which really sucks.I did like in both movies the new weapons,I thought the shurikens were bad ass,also Wolf's whip and his claymore's were totally wicked,one day would like to build a whip,and lastly the duel cannons were pretty awesome toh and to add to some of the previous comments,the new bio's were pretty sweet as well,especially Wolf's and the Celtic Predator.Oh almost forgot,the Celtic Predators rotating blades was an awesome addition.

Thanks,Daren

 

[cacador]

I forgot about those, yeah the rotating wrist blades were bad ass. He should have lived for another fight. I like how he ripped his armor off as soon as the xeno acid got on to it too. He charged that alien and threw it through a damn wall. Why did he have to die so soon? RIP celtic, lol.

 

[Robillicus]

Instead of just out-right bashing the **** out of AVP, I would like to give an alternate version as I've been thinking about this for a few days now. One, that I think would've been a lot more tolerable, and a lot more respectful towards the Predator character.

Alright, now we all know that Chopper died within 5 minutes of being on screen by an Alien tail that some how managed to grow twice the normal length to accomplish the kill. I remember sitting in the theatre and thinking, "wow, already?" But that's what happens when the movie is written by someone who, when interviewed gave an emotional and nostalgic paragraph about seeing Alien in theatres; but when asked about Predator he came back with "Oh, yeah.. I saw Predator." Bias? ME thinks so. Anyway, my version takes off right as Celtic battles it out with the "Grid" Alien. Right as the Alien is about to deal it's death-blow via tongue (first off, it goes through the helmet? No. Secondly, there was what felt like too much time wasted before the head-bite), the Celtic thrusts up his hand and clasps it tightly around the Aliens neck. Re-establishing his dominance over the beast, he squeezes tighter and effortlessly restrains it's flailing limbs with his free arm. Then, with surgical precision inserts his ceremonial knife into the creatures face - instantly turning it retarded. Roaring victoriously over his foe, he stomps ferociously on the head of Paul W.S. Andersons wet dream. Retrieving a fresh, un-lame set of wrist blades from his fallen comrade, Celtic quickly disappears into the darkness.

Alright, sparing any more dramatics, the Celtic learns of Scars impregnation and his "team-up" with Lex. Enraged, he sets out to kill the **** out of both of them. Now the Celtic becomes the protagonist by Predator lore, and Scar remains the cowardly bitch that he was in the actual movie... so there's not much change there.

So after all of the Aliens are slaughtered by the Celtic, he is again reunited with Scar and his girlfriend after he had detonated his wrist bomb inside the temple. The Celtic Predator, unscathed by all of the movies actual ********, motions that Scar should take his life as he is an un-fit warrior being over-taken by the enemy, and just a huge douche in general. He refuses, and the Celtic and Scar engage in a wild battle that ends with Celtic beating the **** out of him, and ripping the alien inside of him right out of his chest, and snapping it's soft little neck. Kinda like Scar did in the hive scene... but less ironic. Then, the Queen bursts through the ice, and he is forced to deal with her. So, after another crazy battle, the Celtic over-powers the super **** and sends her on her way towards the cold ocean floor- where she will rot because no one cares. Then, the Celtic gazes towards Lex through his helmet. Then, just as he is about to take her head the Elder show's up, and his magnificent red cape just bewilders everyone there, and the Celtic says "**** it, I want to go home. **** this planet, and **** her. **** this movie, and **** Paul W.S. Anderson. Holy **** I can't believe his fart of a story spawned a sequel." You heard it from the Predators mouth.

We all know that didn't happen in AVP, but I think it would've made an interesting dynamic had the Celtic survived and taken it upon himself to eliminate Scar and Lex.

 

[Tulak Hord]

i didn t like that much AVP (i love AVP-r) mostly because first two predators are portrayed as stupid incompetent beings....c mon yautja are trained ssince they are born...they wouldn t make stupid mistakes like that....example when scar didn t expect attack of facehugger when he got embryo.....i mean he is inside alien lair....he had to be more careful

 

[Nritja]

I actually loved AVP It is my favorite movie out of the predator and AVP movies. But what I dislike with it is that Wayland was in it. What the hell is he doing in that timeline?! and I dislike how fast the preds died and the fact that Scar died as well (I really think that he should have survived) I am convinced they only killed him of as an excuse to ruin the AVP movies by making AVPR

 

[TokyoRose]

I like this thread.

I didn't really get into the movies until a couple of years ago, so I wasn't a life long fan that was infuriated by the newer spin offs as I'm sure many of you were.
Since really getting into the Predator and AVP movies, I have watched them over and over, and I see where all of the points are coming from.

Robillicus- I like your version of AVP much better. Predators are Hunters and that's what they should have remained. Scar's sympathy for Lex was stupid. I understand that it lent itself to the story- but the story was crap and we already know that. I would have loved for the new movies to be way more ruthless than they were, but the people involved dropped the ball. That's Hollywood for ya.

On the pro side, the movies gave a whole new arsenal, some new Pred looks, and hey- breathed life back into a franchise that had lay pretty much dormant for 14 years.

I have to say that I loved the look of AVPR's Wolf. Proportionately, I think he was the most appealing, and I like that they kept him a little more traditional. And (again) aside from the weak way that the story played out, The "Hybrid" PredAlien looked amazing. His design was very well done.

I think that the bulky look of the Preds in AVP could have worked. I could have believed they were some sort of Elite Guard. Big, Beefy and Bad Ass. But the fact that 2 of the 3 got their asses handed to them almost instantly, and the other sided with a human and had those big puppy dog eyes sort of killed that. And then to have an entire ship full of Preds and Elders- fully armed and assumed to have already passed the trials these 3 young Preds were facing- Get wiped out by 1 newborn Hybrid Alien was pretty sad. One of the many fails the movies brought.

And I didn't really see the problem with Wayland being there. He was a clone in the Alien movies, so the original had to come from somewhere. He's loaded and as such has his DNA cryogenically frozen to be "Brought back to life" over and over again. Something along those lines is how I justified it to myself. Just my opinion though, I haven't watched any of the Alien movies for a long time so I could be way off base.

Anyway, to sum up my opinion:
I loved the look of the Wolf Character and the Hybrid Alien- +AVPR
I really disliked the way a potentially good story was destroyed around every corner. -AVP
I loved the surprisingly gruesome and unexpected Death of the blonde girl (aka Jess) ++AVPR
And man did she look good in that swimming pool scene. +++ AVPR

Basically, take the movies for what they are. They are entertaining while at times excruciating, and overall pretty nice to look at. Unfortunately you have to leave your brain at the door. But Hey- if nothing else, movie flops lend themselves greatly to kick ass franchise reboots down the road.

 

[Extreme Gravity]

Actually, Ian Whyte not only played Scar and Wolf, but Celtic as well. But, I dont like the way he portrayed Celtic. Scar and Wolf had fluid movements and really gave the impression of an alien hunter, not some guy in a suit. But Celtic's movements were sluggish and unexperienced, like the suit weighed a ton. He wanted to give celtic the 'alpha male' impression. The wristblade vs tail scene did not look like how an alpha male would've fought.

And then to have an entire ship full of Preds and Elders- fully armed and assumed to have already passed the trials these 3 young Preds were facing- Get wiped out by 1 newborn Hybrid Alien was pretty sad. One of the many fails the movies brought.if nothing else, movie flops lend themselves greatly to kick ass franchise reboots down the road.

Actually, the predalien killed all the preds in a scout ship that departed from the mother ship. I think the movie would've ended a lot quicker if it was born into the mother ship though.

 

[TokyoRose]

Actually, the predalien killed all the preds in a scout ship that departed from the mother ship. I think the movie would've ended a lot quicker if it was born into the mother ship though.

My bad. The point still remains though, that 1 predalien killed all of the Predators on the ship. I don't remember off hand how may of them there were- at least 4 or 5. Just backs up the point even further that these guys probably weren't Special Ops material.

 

[Monkeys With Guns]

I didn't like AVP .

AVPR was like watching a predator movie on the WB channel with the teen cliche characters . The gore was good , and wolf was bad-ass !

 

[cayman shen]

In AVP, cons:

1. The bulky preds with shiny armor
2. Transforming pyramid? Feels too video-game. I was ok with the pyramid, barely, until it started shape shifting. That felt pretty hokey. Like something a kid playing with action figures would cook up.
3. The whole "Predators were our gods" idea. Kinda takes a cool, simple concept (alien hunters killing people) and turns it into some pretentious, overblown half-assed mythological ****. Weak.
4. The P2 gift from the elder ripoff (though the ship de-cloaking was cool)

Pros:
1. Celtic bio!
2. I'm a sucker for anything that takes place in the snow. It really tickled me to see Preds in a snowstorm.
3. The queen fight at the end. I just about cheered when the Pred spun around and speared her. And I love how she was dragged underwater. Very cool.
4. I liked that he teamed with a human, but the alien head shield was silly. But I do like the "enemy of my enemy" line. I know a lot of others didn't.

5. Shuriken. Waaaaaay cooler than throwing discs!
6. Acting was very good, I thought.

AVPR Cons:
1. Too dark. Once I adjusted my TV it was fine though.
2. That wierd artificial rays of light through the trees. It was everywhere, and it looked fake and lame. That was my single biggest gripe about the film.
3. Cop skinned because?
4. Xeno embryos implanted by throat?
5. The cop and the convict looked like extras from Knight Rider. Seriously, it was like Michael Knight and Tubbs in a Predator movie.
6. The hot chick wasn't.
7. I've still never had anyone adequately explain the ships. The ship get a few planets away, stops, launches another ship...why? Makes no sense.

Pros:
1. Wolf and all his gear. The claymore scene was fabulous.
2. The small town setting made it feel kinda like a slasher film. Coupled with the teens, this was the Friday the 13th of Predator. A lot of people didn't like that (Dawson's Creek comments), but to me it brought a b-movie slasher flick element that I really dug.
3. Best kill I didn't see coming: chick getting ninja-starred in half. Sick.
4. Lots of fun gore.
5. I thought the hospital roof climax was great.

Overall, I enjoyed AVPR more because of the slasher-movie feel. I felt AVP was too much of a video game movie. AVP had better acting and writing, but I liked the design of AVPR far more, and I liked how the characters were regular people, not some "elite team," which also made it feel less artificial and cliche than the militaristic action movie thing AVP had going. As a way of forcing the Aliens vs Preds issue, I guess AVP worked, but I could think of a billion other ways to get them together.

I do think these movies get a bad rap. Both of them are fun popcorn flicks. But I'd watch a Pred hanging laundry for two hours, so I'm easy...