joberg
Legendary Member
Your sacrifice will be appreciated by many
AVATAR 2: THE WAY OF WATER (2022)
- Thread starter peterquill
- Start date
I keep seeing headlines saying that people are claiming its pretty boring. Of course you will get those that think its the BEST MOVIE EVER MADE.
Really, from what I've seen, with the camera movements through the water and all, it looks like it should be an 80s motion simulator ride but with really good visuals....oh, and the ride is 3 hours long.
Really, from what I've seen, with the camera movements through the water and all, it looks like it should be an 80s motion simulator ride but with really good visuals....oh, and the ride is 3 hours long.
It's a problem with event-movies this big. You've got about 4 different competing opinions in your head:
1. Your own reaction to the trailers
2. The press reaction to the movie
3. The word-of-mouth reaction to it
4. Your own reaction to finally seeing it
Right before Star Wars Ep#1 came out in theaters in 1999, George Lucas made a public comment like "No movie could live up to the hype this movie is getting" and basically called for the expectations to be dialed down a bit.
1. Your own reaction to the trailers
2. The press reaction to the movie
3. The word-of-mouth reaction to it
4. Your own reaction to finally seeing it
Right before Star Wars Ep#1 came out in theaters in 1999, George Lucas made a public comment like "No movie could live up to the hype this movie is getting" and basically called for the expectations to be dialed down a bit.
OK, Jim…I guess you have thrown down the gauntlet.
James Cameron: ‘Avatar 2’ Pregnant Warrior Advances Female Empowerment Beyond Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel
James Cameron: ‘Avatar 2’ Pregnant Warrior Advances Female Empowerment Beyond Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel
Last edited:
HMSwolfe
Master Member
I find it astoundingly hard to reconcile the director of T2, Aliens, and True Lies with the creator of Avatar. His mind has turned to putty.OK, Jim…I guess you have thrown down the gauntlet.
James Cameron: ‘Avatar 2’ Pregnant Warrior Advances Female Empowerment Beyond Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel
Honestly though, this sort of thing seems to happen to a lot of the visionaries who pushed the limit in the last century. Robert Zemeckis mostly makes weird mocap movies no one asked for. George Lucas is…well, George. Cameron has completely left behind the dedication to practicality and simplicity of his earlier films. I guess it’s some kind of symptom of chasing the cutting edge, that eventually you just end up chasing tangents and losing touch with reality.
Friend of mine saw it today . I asked her rate it 1-10 she’s replied she left early lol . She said the storyline is very bad. I have to admit it sounds ridiculous . Why was all this money and time spent on what three or more sequels? Some one needed to tell Cameron nobody cares anymore .
Cameron never had a dedication to practicality & simplicty. He had a dedication to making movies featuring technology and getting them done within the limits of the times. That led to him using a lot of practical solutions (miniatures, etc) in the 1980s-90s. But Chris Nolan is the guy who says "I hate CGI, give me models!" That was never Cameron.
George Lucas was a practical miniature guy in the 1970s-80s, right up until he invented a CGI option. Today I sometimes hear people say "the old Indiana Jones movies wouldn't have used CGI!" <-- WTF? Those movies are full of ambitous matte paintings and rotoscoping and blue-screen composite shots that were pushing the limits of the times. They absolutely would have used CGI in the 1970s-80s if it had been available.
I'm still comparing this Avatar sequel to 'The Abyss'. It's another cutting-edge underwater-fest that appeals to Cameron's personal interests more than the public's.
Last edited:
joberg
Legendary Member
Especially in that woke Zeitgeist that forbid the word "Woman" and saying that men cannot get pregnantOK, Jim…I guess you have thrown down the gauntlet.
James Cameron: ‘Avatar 2’ Pregnant Warrior Advances Female Empowerment Beyond Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel
joberg
Legendary Member
You're right on the money with those words
Nolan is a disciple of the "Celluloid God"; either in 35mil or 70mil. This is the man who restored the original neg copy of "2001 A Space Odyssey" He doesn't even like to film in HD!You're right to say that Cameron and Lucas are cut from the same cloth: gimme the latest tech so I can use it in my movies!
Do you really need it? No, but I can use it since it's available to me
Everything about that kind of approach to film is wrong in my book!
HMSwolfe
Master Member
Strap in.
So, there’s a line in the movie that gets repeated a few times. It may even be in the trailers, I don’t know. “The way of water has no beginning, no end.” This perfectly describes the film. There’s about six minutes worth of a first act, two and a half hours of second act, and then forty-five minutes for the third.
Spoiler territory from here on out.
I could honestly probably write an entire essay on what I didn’t like about this movie, but I already wasted three or so hours of my life. I don’t feel like wasting more. It’s not the most terrible thing, but it’s not “groundbreaking” or “spectacular” or a “must-see” for most people. The first Avatar was something new, even if it was shallow. This is just more of the same—but the fact it doesn’t bring anything new means it loses over half the reason people were drawn to the first one. Anyway, by! I’m peacing out of this thread, I don’t care about Avatar and I only posted here because I was semi-required to see it. So, take my insights with a grain of salt or as iron-clad doctrine, I don’t care much either way.
So, there’s a line in the movie that gets repeated a few times. It may even be in the trailers, I don’t know. “The way of water has no beginning, no end.” This perfectly describes the film. There’s about six minutes worth of a first act, two and a half hours of second act, and then forty-five minutes for the third.
Spoiler territory from here on out.
This movie is astoundingly too long. I have personal bias and taste reasons for not liking the film, but even if this is your thing, this could have been ninety minutes long in total. Instead, we get, as stated above, two-plus hours of “world-building” that I frankly just don’t care about.
There are also numerous, glaring problems with the film. So, first of all, Stephen Lang is back, and he’s like six feet taller than last time you saw him, because “Project Phoenix” cloned his memory and put it into an avatar made for him in case he died in the first movie. So now the Blue Meanie is up and at ‘em again. His marching orders? The reason why they spent a fortune bringing him and his team back? Kill Jake Sully. A grudge. That’s it. Hold on a minute, you say. If Lang is a Smurf now, won’t that mean he’ll have a similar experience to Jake’s from the first film, and maybe his heart will soften to Pandora? Well, nope. That would be too interesting. Well, you reply, maybe they’re going to do a cool sci-fi story about the new Lang not being the same person as the human one, like you would tell in a sci-fi setting? The ethics of cloning and the human soul and whatnot? No. Nothing there. He’s just back and he wants REVENGE. Okay. Well, why did they need to be brought back as the Thundercats? Because they’re big and strong and can breathe on the planet, right? Well, again, you’d be wrong. According to military leader lady, if Lang and his squad look like Na’vi, the planet (the flora and fauna) won’t fight them off. Hold on. I don’t remember much about the first film, but isn’t essentially the first full scene with Jake in his avatar body in the first one about him getting attacked by a slimy lizard wolf? Oh, I guess Lang and his team just walk right by one of those. Okay. Let’s get to the new clan in the film, the water people. So Jake finds out he and his family are being hunted by the “Sky People”, which sounds astoundingly stupid coming out of his mouth. His decision is to leave the tribe because that will “protect them” and go and endanger some other tribe. Now, if you thought the Na’vi had a stupid design before, then be prepared, because this new tribe is worse. They have unsettling blue eyes, thick otter tails, and big Popeye forearms and calves for paddling through water. Wait a minute. Jake and his family say they’re going to live with this tribe. They are very clearly specially adapted to their environment, like Darwin’s finches. There is no way Jake and his family are suited to living in Water World. These other people probably have expanded lung capacity, special oils in their skin to prevent drying out or pruning up, maybe even some sort of internal biology to prevent them from getting the bends from surfacing rapidly. But no, Jake and his tree people do just dandy. All it takes is some grit and determination! Well, isn’t the film visually stunning? No, not really. It basically looks the same as the last one, which is a testament to the consistency of the first one, if anything. Is there anything you dislike about digital cinematography, like cameras that zoom around and can do anything because they’re not real? Or digital punch zooms, ‘cause that will trick the audience into thinking they’re watching a documentary? Well, this movie has it in spades.
There are also numerous, glaring problems with the film. So, first of all, Stephen Lang is back, and he’s like six feet taller than last time you saw him, because “Project Phoenix” cloned his memory and put it into an avatar made for him in case he died in the first movie. So now the Blue Meanie is up and at ‘em again. His marching orders? The reason why they spent a fortune bringing him and his team back? Kill Jake Sully. A grudge. That’s it. Hold on a minute, you say. If Lang is a Smurf now, won’t that mean he’ll have a similar experience to Jake’s from the first film, and maybe his heart will soften to Pandora? Well, nope. That would be too interesting. Well, you reply, maybe they’re going to do a cool sci-fi story about the new Lang not being the same person as the human one, like you would tell in a sci-fi setting? The ethics of cloning and the human soul and whatnot? No. Nothing there. He’s just back and he wants REVENGE. Okay. Well, why did they need to be brought back as the Thundercats? Because they’re big and strong and can breathe on the planet, right? Well, again, you’d be wrong. According to military leader lady, if Lang and his squad look like Na’vi, the planet (the flora and fauna) won’t fight them off. Hold on. I don’t remember much about the first film, but isn’t essentially the first full scene with Jake in his avatar body in the first one about him getting attacked by a slimy lizard wolf? Oh, I guess Lang and his team just walk right by one of those. Okay. Let’s get to the new clan in the film, the water people. So Jake finds out he and his family are being hunted by the “Sky People”, which sounds astoundingly stupid coming out of his mouth. His decision is to leave the tribe because that will “protect them” and go and endanger some other tribe. Now, if you thought the Na’vi had a stupid design before, then be prepared, because this new tribe is worse. They have unsettling blue eyes, thick otter tails, and big Popeye forearms and calves for paddling through water. Wait a minute. Jake and his family say they’re going to live with this tribe. They are very clearly specially adapted to their environment, like Darwin’s finches. There is no way Jake and his family are suited to living in Water World. These other people probably have expanded lung capacity, special oils in their skin to prevent drying out or pruning up, maybe even some sort of internal biology to prevent them from getting the bends from surfacing rapidly. But no, Jake and his tree people do just dandy. All it takes is some grit and determination! Well, isn’t the film visually stunning? No, not really. It basically looks the same as the last one, which is a testament to the consistency of the first one, if anything. Is there anything you dislike about digital cinematography, like cameras that zoom around and can do anything because they’re not real? Or digital punch zooms, ‘cause that will trick the audience into thinking they’re watching a documentary? Well, this movie has it in spades.
I could honestly probably write an entire essay on what I didn’t like about this movie, but I already wasted three or so hours of my life. I don’t feel like wasting more. It’s not the most terrible thing, but it’s not “groundbreaking” or “spectacular” or a “must-see” for most people. The first Avatar was something new, even if it was shallow. This is just more of the same—but the fact it doesn’t bring anything new means it loses over half the reason people were drawn to the first one. Anyway, by! I’m peacing out of this thread, I don’t care about Avatar and I only posted here because I was semi-required to see it. So, take my insights with a grain of salt or as iron-clad doctrine, I don’t care much either way.
Much appreciated!
Sonce the next onenwas already filmed and in post right now...and depending on how this one does at the bix office, he might or might not make more...
If he does end up making more....I bet in the end, they all could be edited down to a 3 hour film....maybe 2 films at best.
If he does end up making more....I bet in the end, they all could be edited down to a 3 hour film....maybe 2 films at best.
I’ll not stand for Jim denigrating the good name and the inspirational impact of Captain Marvel, as presented by Brie Larson.
How dare you, sir…how dare you…
Last edited:
Personally, I don't have that major an issue with Cameron's statements. I think it's mostly a fair dig at Marvel/DC films - certainly not that every superhero (or every adult) needs to be a parent to have "a purpose," but beyond things like The Incredibles and Kick-Ass, I can't think of many starring parents, and perhaps that is a niche worthy of filling.
Also, there's some historical basis for his suggestion of a warrior fighting while pregnant. Not sure about six months, but in 1802 when Napoleon sent troops to the French Caribbean territory of Guadeloupe to reestablish slavery (under the command of one Gen. Richepanse - really), a 30-year-old woman known as la mulâtresse (the mulatto) Solitude actively fought in a series of battles while three months pregnant. She was wounded and ultimately captured, but unlike her surviving comrades, France delayed her execution... until one day following birth (so the baby could be enslaved).
[She was actually honored in Paris just a few months ago with the city's first statue dedicated to a specific black woman.]
HMSwolfe
Master Member
So, I did not read that article before seeing the movie, and I got like, maybe two paragraphs down before I had to stop reading for laughing. First of all, he’s being interviewed by famous very good director never made a bad movie Robert Rodriguez, of Boba Fett and His Book fame. That alone cracked me up. Then he starts lathering on the adulation for Cameron’s stupid movie, how the “story and characters” (which are, without a doubt, objectively, the weakest parts of both films) really grip you and engage you. Then Cameron started spouting off about “wouldn’t it be cool, if like, y’know, we saw two pregnant women doing battle in the movie?” No, not really. Kind of stupid, honestly. The whole “bearing children” thing is kind of where the traditional gender roles of men/women come from, so it doesn’t really make sense for them to be doing something dangerous and stupid while carrying children. It’s not even treated as a necessity in the movie, like, sure, you could write a great scene where a pregnant woman has to defend herself because the moment calls for it, like A Quiet Place. But in this movie, Jakesully says to everyone “don’t come out when I go to face the bad guy, they just want me”, so of course they all start to go. Including the pregnant character, whose husband says “nah you shouldn’t go because that’s a huge risk”, to which she replies: “I’m going”. Very cool scene, very cool character whose name I don’t know.
CB2001
Master Member
Really? Aeryn Sun was pregnant in the Farscape: Peacekeeper Wars, and literally gave birth to a kid in the middle of a war zone. And that was in 2004!OK, Jim…I guess you have thrown down the gauntlet.
James Cameron: ‘Avatar 2’ Pregnant Warrior Advances Female Empowerment Beyond Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel
Last edited:
