Assassin's Creed: Altair

Discussion in 'Replica Costumes' started by Risu, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I didn't want to start this thread yet because I won't actually start on the costume for a couple more months, but I'm starting work on the hidden blade following some youtube tutorials I found. It's easy enough to make, but I want to be able to wear it to cons and whatnot. I'm thinking I'll make the blade part from a rubber stunt blade or a piece of blunt plastic, nothing that could actually stab or cut, and it won't have a locking mechanism, so contact will just push it back in. So my question is, is a switchblade or spring-loaded mechanism like that legal (in CA particularly) as long as there isn't a blade attached to it? I know CA law states that a switchblade blade can't be longer than 2", but I can't find any info on whether the mechanism itself is illegal if the "blade" that's attached is nonlethal. Any help would be appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
  2. Berserk

    Berserk Well-Known Member

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    Re: Assassin's Creed: Altair (LEGAL QUESTION)

    um, if it isn't a knife or blade, why do you have to worry if it is legal? If you have a rubber gun is it illegal in CA?
     
  3. Ketariniii

    Ketariniii New Member

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    Re: Assassin's Creed: Altair (LEGAL QUESTION)

    All I would suggest is be smart about how you wear it, dont joke around when its not appropriate and you should be good to go. Convention staff are generally tolerant of questionable things if you're not acting crazy. Just my $0.02
     
  4. Starlit Rose

    Starlit Rose Member

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    Re: Assassin's Creed: Altair (LEGAL QUESTION)

    I highly doubt it will become an issue anyway if it's going to be hidden, but in the event that you wear it to a convention and a staff member sees it, they might make you get it checked at the convention's prop check. They'd only do this if they saw it and could not be 100% sure from looking at it that it was safe. Like, if it LOOKS convincing, rubber or not, they have to have a way to know for sure from afar that it's not a weapon. In which case, prop-check will look at it and probably try to put a zip-tie on it so other staff won't stop you. Buuuuuuut again, chances are, if it's a hidden, spring-loaded blade I doubt anyone will even catch it. I'm just giving you a worst-case scenario. :p /wall of text

    But basically, do what Ketarinii said and you shouldn't have to worry about anything.
     
  5. LightStreak

    LightStreak New Member

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    Re: Assassin's Creed: Altair (LEGAL QUESTION)

    Just a note, not about actual legal technicals but some more general advice.
    I've made several hidden blades, and had a long history in taking them out to costume parties etc.
    What you really don't want to do is make the actual blade part out of metal (of course this isn't a problem with the mechanism, slider or even sheath - if you have one on yours). It's not a question of the law so much here as over-zelous cops and insecure security guards.
    I guarentee if you make one, take it to a con, a security guard sees it and is concerned, the first question he'll ask is "is it metal?". This has happened to me many times and gone either way.
    If it isn't metal, they immediatly loose interest. There is less chance of accidents occuring, and, let's face it, no-one serious about actually using the thing as a weapon will make if out of plastic.
    If it is metal, and this has happened to me, at the very least, they always want you to take it off, and inspect the whole contraption throughly before either confiscating it for the duration of your stay, or giving it back to you and asking you to keep it out of sight (whilst suspiciously remembering your face, I may add).
    I'd suggest, if you really want one in metal, to make 2 (could double one as more of an Ezio style?). One in metal, one in plastic, and use the latter for public appearances. Metal ones create more problems than they solve, whilst I even prefer using arcylic, as it is much easier to shape and pattern (particularly useful when making Ezio blades). A good coat of silver chrome-effect paint will make it indistinguishable from the real deal from a distance anyway. Good luck :)
     
  6. writefast

    writefast Active Member

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    Re: Assassin's Creed: Altair (LEGAL QUESTION)

    This is a good article. California State Knife Laws It makes no mention of the mechanism being illegal.
     
  7. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Assassin's Creed: Altair (LEGAL QUESTION)

    Thanks for the response everybody. That's what I was hoping. I don't plan on making one from metal at all because of the issues. California is a little crazy about weapons, so I don't even want to make the blade from anything rigid if I can help it. I've got some flexible resin, it's practically hard rubber, than I might cast it from. Cons and faires are the only places I expect to wear it, although I've thought about making a short fan film as well. A rubber or plastic blade works just fine for either of those.
     
  8. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Assassin's Creed: Altair (Hidden blade)

    OK, so a new question. I'm hoping somebody has seen these for sale somewhere. I want to make my hidden blade using the same method and parts as this guy:

    Ezio costume (AC2) » dual hidden blade tutorial - YouTube

    He says he's using 10" drawer slides, which is the perfect size and the specific slides he's using are unique in that they only have 2 main slide pieces, the inside and outside, as opposed to all of the other ones I've seen which include an additional middle piece so they can extend further. I want to use these exact same slides if possible because they're lower profile than the larger 3 piece ones, they aren't all covered in grease, and the ball bearings won't fall out in the process of taking it apart. Also, I really don't want to cut the thing down. I already tried asking the guy who made the video, but as expected I didn't get a response. The holes in these particular slides look similar to some models of Accuride slides, but I haven't been able to find a specific model. Any chance anybody knows what brand they are or where I can find them?
     
  9. Kommissar

    Kommissar Well-Known Member

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    Re: Assassin's Creed: Altair (Hidden blade)

    i'd have posted this in 'props' not 'costumes' if this is about the legality of your prop.
    if its not a real weapon, then it isnt a concealed weapon, its just a toy/prop.
    so long as you do no brandish it or lead people to believe it is real, you are fine.

    it seems like the guy who made that video may be from outside the US, which means the chances of isolating what 'brand' some drawer rails are.. are pretty slim.
    indymogul has a tutorial similar to this, try checking it out, it might show you how to use other rails
     
  10. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Re: Assassin's Creed: Altair (Hidden blade)

    I put the thread here in costumes because I'll be using the same thread for my costume build when I start working on it. Which will probably be sooner than I expected, too.

    He got back to me, and says the slides he used don't have a brand name, which is obviously false, but he doesn't seem interested in putting in the bare minimum effort to help out another fan. So I'll look into the other tutorials I guess and deal with the terrible bearing mounting systems in one of the other slides.
     
  11. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    OK, I got the slide situation figured out, and I think it's going to look great when I finish it. I don't have the tools on hand to finish the job, so I'll do that when I visit my dad for the holidays. In the meantime, I've started in on the costume. As with my Jack Sparrow and Prince of Persia (temporarily on hold, but will be finished) costumes, I'm going to attempt to do this one with period accurate fabrics. I've seen a couple of good Altair's, but most people use the wrong fabric and the whole thing drapes and wrinkles all wrong. I can see why they do it though, because using those fabrics almost the whole costume can be made for $20. Linen is a bit more expensive, though. So here we go:

    [​IMG]
    Tunic made from 100% linen ivory suiting and pants made from 100% wool grey flannel. I still need to add a facing for the neckline of the tunic to make it lay right, and my plan is to rub the tunic with some graphite because I couldn't find any really light grey linen anywhere and didn't want to mess around with dye.

    [​IMG]
    And here's the template for the right bracer. This thing was a pain to pattern because of the way the wrist changes shape as you get further up the arm. This should be correct though, and as soon as I get some buckles from Tandy I'll be able to finish it up.

    After the Tandy trip I'll also have everything I need to make the left bracer, the baldric, and the belt as well, and those will go pretty quickly, save for the decorative metal triangle on the baldric.
     
  12. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Ended up recalculating a bit as I cut so the pieces would wrap correctly.

    [​IMG]

    And then I cut the pieces for the gauntlet.

    [​IMG]

    There's an inner piece that wraps the wrist to make the whole arm a more gradual taper, then the part that wraps the whole arm to brace it and add bulk, and the third piece is the backing for the metal plates. That piece isn't quite finished, I have to go back to Tandy and get a slot punch so the straps can go through at each of those bulges on the side. The pieces aren't quite right in the picture, the two inside pieces should be turned 180 degrees so the wrist piece opens underneath and the arm wrap opens at the top, under the backing piece. Once I cut all the straps I can dye everything. There's a good chance I won't get anything else done until after I get back from the holidays.
     
  13. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I took a closer look at reference pics and realized there was an extra piece underneath the plate backing, so I cut that, dyed all my pieces, and added snaps to the main pieces of the left bracer. The backing plate has to wait for now because the straps were soaked through and still haven't dried.

    [​IMG]

    Next up, I'll rivet together the right bracer. I may or may not darken all this stuff with some shoe polish, I'm unsure of the color until I see it in sunlight. Unfortunately, Eco-flo doesn't make a nice brown dye. If you want something significantly lighter than black that isn't brick red you have to get the correct ratio of range tan to dark cocoa brown. The cocoa darkens the range and if you get the mix right, it'll actually completely wipe out the red tint.
     
  14. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Just have to make the metal plates.
     
  15. Eveningarwen

    Eveningarwen Well-Known Member

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    I know you mentioned you have the slides figured out but the first thing I thought of when I heard of slides that only needed to be two piece and no inner piece I thought of Ikea. Most of their stuff is kind of cheap/simple and thought their stuff would have sliders like that. I found this website that carries replacement slides that seem to fit Ikea furniture and it says double slides. It looks to me like the right thing but maybe I'm totally off. Anywho I figured I'd put it here and you can confirm if they are or are not helpful in case anyone else needs to find cheap slides in different lengths.

    Drawer Slides | Ikea Replacement Slides | Hardware Tree
     
  16. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    It's hard to say just from the drawings, but the first two could probably be made to work. As it turns out, Home Depot sells a pair of slides that are only 2-piece, I think they were 14 inches long, and the smaller piece has metal brackets attached to it. When I get back to work on the blade, I'll post plenty of pictures.

    After looking at my pictures, I've realized my left gauntlet is too small, so it looks like I'll need to start over on that one. At least I can keep the straps, top panel, and the wrist brace, but the 2 largest parts will have to go.
     
  17. Laamberry

    Laamberry Well-Known Member

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    Those bracers are absolutely beautiful.
     
  18. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I enjoy wearing them around the apartment, but I can't type in them without lots of pain. They take a while to break in and form to the wrist bones.

    Tonight I'll be re-cutting the left gauntlet and the belt, too. I patterned that out today. Pictures coming later tonight of the hidden blade materials and whatever else I've got done.
     
  19. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I got the new bracer pattern made up. Fixed the scaling and the contour at the elbow as well. I also finished off the belt pattern. I started out sketching up a copy of the Museum Replicas belt, but then realized that that belt is almost completely inaccurate. So I loaded up the game and a bunch of screen grabs and promo images.

    [​IMG]

    OK, so here are the parts for the hidden blade. I started with this drawer slide from Home Depot.

    [​IMG]

    Then I got a pen spring and a stapler spring, a rectangular brass tube for the string to run along the outside of the slide, a sheet of thin steel for the case (easily bendable) and a piece of thick styrene plastic for the blade. I also engineered and made a new trigger mechanism.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Kommissar

    Kommissar Well-Known Member

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    some solid leatherwork there my friend!
    well done!
    how thick is the leather you are working in?
     
  21. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The gauntlets are made from about 7-8 oz. and the belt will be made from 10-11 oz. belly hides, although I'm considering using some of the gauntlet leather for belt piece number 3 to cut down on bulk, if there's enough left over. I still wanted to used that stuff for the sword belt as well, the hide is disappearing fast.
     
  22. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    New gauntlet pieces are cut:

    [​IMG]

    And so is the belt.

    [​IMG]

    They'll have to dry overnight, and tomorrow I'll punch the stitching holes in the belt pieces and then dye everything. I might also start patterning the upper tunic and make the sash.
     
  23. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The gauntlet is completely dry, figured I'd try it on. Everything's looking good.

    [​IMG]

    And I got the belt stitch holes punched, but the thicker pieces still aren't completely dry, so I'll have to wait to dye everything until tomorrow.

    [​IMG]

    Well, this is probably my last post of the year, and it's been a bad one for me and most of the people I know. Here's hoping next year is a good one. Happy new year, everybody!
     
  24. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Just some belt progress today. Hoping to finish the new left gauntlet tomorrow as well as the belt stitching. The sections of stitching missing on the middle piece are where the two pieces will be sewn together and those missing on the bottom will be explained in my next post.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    OK, so the reason that stitching wasn't done yet was because of the frog. There are no visible rivets on the belt, so the stitching had to be what held the frog on. I also noticed that early in the game when Altair has all of his weapons taken away, the top half of the belt and the frog are both gone. So I made my belt two pieces that can be separated held together by snaps, and I also made the frog detachable in the same way and the tab can be hidden by folding it back and snapping it in place.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I also assembled the gauntlet.

    [​IMG]

    And finished the belt with the exception of the buckles in the back.

    [​IMG]

    If I get time to work on this tomorrow, I'll make the sash and finish the belt.
     
  26. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The sash is made from a linen blend, best I could find. It was stiff at first, but it wrinkles up after a steam press. It's a little too crisp at the edges now, but that can be fixed. It's 5.5" wide and 18 feet long.

    [​IMG]

    I finally finished the belt, too.

    [​IMG]

    And I got started on the metal gauntlet plates. They're cut from 6 mm craft foam. I intend to cut duplicates from 1 mm foam that I'll cut the details into, then glue them on, mold, and resin cast them.

    [​IMG]
     
  27. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I've been working on the upper tunic for the last couple days, and it's given me some headaches. I cut and sewed up the top half of it once only to realize I had made a mistake and the whole thing had to go in the trash. With the help of EveningArwen and Aeryn, I now know how to do it right, but haven't gotten around to it because I started in on the bottom half, and I've basically finished it now. I just have to attach the back tabbards.

    [​IMG]

    I was hoping to finish tonight before I leave town, but it'll just have to wait. I'll get back to work in a few days.

    Oh, and the tunic is made from bleached white "hopsack" linen, it's a really nice, soft open-weave linen blend. It looks perfect up close.
     
  28. IronCostumer

    IronCostumer Well-Known Member

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    Amazing work. Can't wait to see this finished!
     
  29. Metalfire

    Metalfire New Member

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    Looking great! I love the tooling on the belt! I have an Ebony Brotherhood Ezio that I bought not to long ago that I'm looking to upgrade to pieces for. I've been looking to buy some leather, but I have no idea what to get. What thickness, what side.... I look at Tandy's site and I just stare at the site with a blank face. Any recemendations?
     
  30. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I'd like to say that I could answer all your questions, but unfortunately it takes a long time to learn it all. I wouldn't recommend buying leather on Tandy's site, you should see the hides you're buying in person to check for defects, scars, bug bites, wrinkling, etc. Every hide is different. In the case of the belt, I had to dig through a stack of 30 belly hides to find two that my patterns would fit on and weren't flawed anywhere I needed. I can repeat from before though that my gauntlets are made from 7-8 oz. hides and the belt is made mostly from 10-11 oz. belly hides. The straps are made from 2 oz, as I didn't have anything in a 3 in my scrap pile. I'd recommend going to your local Tandy if you have one and asking if they teach classes. Get the full starter kit, take the class, and keep going. What the class didn't teach me much of was proper edge finishing, I learned that from my boss when I did this for a living. My process is this:

    Cut the piece into the right shape. Use and edger (cuts the edge off at an angle) on the back, taking off a fair amount (hard to define, but don't go more than 45% of the way through the hide). Flip the piece and use the edger on the front, only taking off a very small bit of the edge, and holding it very steady so that you don't make the line wavy. This can take a LOT of practice to get right. Get the edge of the hide damp and use a slicker, the wood one works best, to round the edge. Then for most of my pieces I use an edge groover, which puts a line along the edge. Personal preference. After the hide dries, you can dye it, put satin or super shene on it to seal in the dye (in the case of the Altair costume, use A LOT so it doesn't rub off on the white fabric. I didn't dye the backs of these pieces for that reason. After it's dry again, rub some wax on the edges and use the slicker again, moving it very fast and applying light pressure to heat up the wax so it seeps into the imperfections and makes the edge smooth.

    I hope all that can help you a bit. I do have to say though that getting into leather work is a huge investment. I think my tool kit at this point cost about $500, and that was with business pricing for most of the pieces.
     
  31. Izzzie

    Izzzie Member

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    This is looking incredible! Subscribing for the rest of the build... although wow. What you said about the startup cost of leather tooling sets is making me reconsider doing this for my boyfriend's 21st like I was planning. :3
     
  32. Metalfire

    Metalfire New Member

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    Wow thank you for the advice. I found a Tandy Leather close to my university that I'll go check out here soon and ask for some classes. Looking forward to this being finished! I'd love to see it at Phoenix Comic Con (Arizona) in May if you can make it. Good luck on the build!
     
  33. Prince NEO

    Prince NEO Sr Member

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    You're doing amazing, I wish mine had survived and been anywhere near as good as your's is turning out. I want one :D
     
  34. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Thanks everybody, I appreciate the compliments.

    Metalfire, I won't be attending Phoenix CC, but if I'm able to make it out to DragonCon this year I'll probably bring this one along, sans weaponry. I don't think the hidden blade would go over well in carry-on, and the sword is just plain too bulky. Might attend Wondercon as well. It all depends on my budget. In a career transition.
     
  35. DanielS

    DanielS Well-Known Member

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    So far so good :) can't wait to see more :)
     
  36. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The hidden blade mechanism is mostly finished, I'm letting it sit in the closed position for a couple of hours to see if the stapler spring is going to keep stretching indefinitely. If it does, it's not going to be usable and I'll have to find some other way of spring loading it.

    [​IMG]

    I should finish up the tunic later tonight as well.
     
  37. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    As I had expected, the stapler spring stretched out really bad and it's completely worthless now. I don't know how all the people on youtube get away with using them. Tomorrow I'll pick up some big rubber bands and try it that way. I may have to change them out occasionally, but at least they'll work.

    I've finished the outer tunic except for closing off the liner at the waist and the shoulder embroidery. I like it, but I'm not 100% happy with it, I made it flare more than I'd like. The pictures aren't great, everybody else already went to sleep.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I was planning on making a new under tunic as well, so if anybody's interested in the set, maybe even the pants as well, send me a PM.
     
  38. Prince NEO

    Prince NEO Sr Member

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    If you decide to get rid of a copy of the outer tunic or any of that I'll be all over it :D
     
  39. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Shoot me a PM and we can discuss price.
     
  40. serija

    serija New Member

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    I don't know what's the most awasome thing in that room: Your costume or the little sad Keanu xD
     
  41. Metalfire

    Metalfire New Member

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    The blades that I'm using for mine are collapsible Tai chi swords that I "crimped" the back ends of so they won't slide out the back that I got from amazon. I think total for both it cost me $30 to make. I thought about going with the drawer slide design like yours, but Phx CC frowns upon spring loaded weapons last I checked (mine are gravity based). I found a video of someone that used rare earth magnets instead of springs and was able to get them to snap out and back in the the flick of his wrist it was rather cool! He sells them too I think, one for $60, two for $100. Its a little steep, but I'd get one just to learn how he did it. Again, great job so far, well done!
     
  42. EcKo

    EcKo New Member

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    Sick work so far man . Your leather work is top notch . Looking foward to see the hidden blade
     
  43. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  44. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Well, the old tunics still haven't sold, but I'm finally able to get back to work on this. I've spent the last couple days re-patterning the outer tunic. It's now a bit more form fitting thanks to the inclusion of an invisible zipper up the front (if I can do it properly that is, otherwise it'll just be a really ugly, visible zipper.) I don't have anything to show yet as I'm not quite done cutting all the pieces, but I hope to have this new tunic finished by the end of the week, the new under tunic done in the days following, and the boot greaves after that. That'll leave me about 2 weeks to make the hood and scratch build the sword strap buckle and gauntlet plates, mold them, and cast them before the prop party on the 25th.
     
  45. Prince NEO

    Prince NEO Sr Member

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    Glad to see you're back on this
     
  46. GrayFoxFlavio

    GrayFoxFlavio Well-Known Member

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    Simple awesome! good job! :D
     
  47. GeektressGalore

    GeektressGalore Well-Known Member

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    Risu, can I steal your skill for a bit? Not for long, of course. Just for the rest of my life. You can have it back someday.

    Seriously, though. I need to learn leather stuff because of all of the Assassin costumes I have planned from different time periods. It's a little ridiculous.
     
  48. Onephattsi2

    Onephattsi2 Well-Known Member

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    amazing work so far!!! i love this game..! lol..
     
  49. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Thanks! GG, I wouldn't say leather working is hard exactly, it just takes a long time to learn. No time like the present to start, right? This has been my biggest challenge so far, I still hope to finish my Prince of Persia movie costume some day. I'd recommend starting with something easy, like a pirate or something like that. Or just make decorative stuff. My first bunch of projects were coasters, wristbands, and a full sized Hylian shield, which I unfortunately never finished. I've found though that carving doesn't come into play much at all in costuming.
     
  50. Risu

    Risu Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I hated every single second of this latest part, the glove.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This one's made from vinyl, the fingers are too tight, and it's probably going to fall apart after the first time I wear it. The good news is, I only need to wear it once to the prop party. After that I'll be commissioning a leather one from Magnoli, because there's no way I'm doing this again.
     

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