April Artwork Update - Another bloody Time Bandits map!

[goldenage]

Before I utterly blind myself doing my vector graphic TBMap (example enclosed) I thought I'd ask a few salient questions. (I'm basing it on the copy of the supposed "screen used" version that came with the DVD)

• Are there any public domain screen grabs of this thing or will I have to get my lazy ass in gear and grab my own?
• Is there a secret cabal forum of TB Map-makers I can join/pester the way that their seems to be for other props?

"Why? Why would you?" you may well ask - & I'll tell you; because I want a copy of this thing printed with fused fibre dye sublimation so I can weather it without it simply scraping the ink off the surface of the canvas. That's why.

 

[Patattack]

Re: Just what we need, another bloody Time Bandits map!

I haven't got any helpful information for you, but I wanted to say it's a great start!

Also, if there's any way you could get it printed poster style (that is, just on paper instead of fabric) I would totally buy one.

 

[juno]

Re: Just what we need, another bloody Time Bandits map!

Very nice -- why not make a deal with one of the other map-makers to use their art?

 

[Apollo]

Re: Just what we need, another bloody Time Bandits map!

There are quite a few map makers here.

Search the Junkyard as they are frequenly posted for sale, then pester that member for info! :lol

iirc the Dvd one is not screen acurate

 

[JOATRASH FX]

Re: Just what we need, another bloody Time Bandits map!

A couple years ago I put together a pretty accurate version based on the foldout map. I did it bitmapped instead of vectored because I wanted to get close to a "painted" look. (Indy Magnoli prints, weathers and sells my version on beautiful artists canvas these days.)

Unfortunately, screen grabs will not be of much use. The map seldom shows up in usable angles on screen that show more details than the dvd-foldout. We can only hope it gets released on bluray soon.

Let me guess- the tiny texts are giving you a hard time? :lol

 

[goldenage]

Re: Just what we need, another bloody Time Bandits map!

Joa I own one of your maps and it's a doozy, I'm only doing my own version because there are a few things I want to try out*, and because I'm a glutton for punishment.

*Slightly oversaturating the colours and seeing if I can't weather /fade them to a more screen - like shade: sublimated dye printing should allow that...I think?

A hi - def copy of TB would be nice for so many reasons, but as already stated the shots of the map are few and far between, I'm slowly grabbing what I can - this own be in any way a quest for 100% accuracy - just a fun project.

 

[JOATRASH FX]

Re: Just what we need, another bloody Time Bandits map!

You do? Hah... sorry... been so long I forget everyone that has them! (Did you get it from me or from Indy? The two versions are on different types of canvas.)

The way I see it... would subdye really be more accurate? I mean the originals would most likely be hand painted and/or airbrushed. Sure, a lot of it would soak into the fabric but it might not go that deep. I imagine that weathering a subdye may not give the desired result... but then I haven't tried it, so go for it.

Joa I own one of your maps and it's a doozy, I'm only doing my own version because there are a few things I want to try out*, and because I'm a glutton for punishment.

*Slightly oversaturating the colours and seeing if I can't weather /fade them to a more screen - like shade: sublimated dye printing should allow that...I think?

A hi - def copy of TB would be nice for so many reasons, but as already stated the shots of the map are few and far between, I'm slowly grabbing what I can - this own be in any way a quest for 100% accuracy - just a fun project.

 

[chris_s]

Re: Just what we need, another bloody Time Bandits map!

Doing a vector version is a neat idea. As hard as the bitmap version was I would think doing it that way would be even more maddening!
It looks like you're doing all of the graphics in a vector program. Are you having an easy time doing the coloring?

I did my clocks in illustrator but everything else in photoshop.

 

[jheilman]

Re: Just what we need, another bloody Time Bandits map!

Good luck with it. I too did mine in Photoshop for the hand-painted look. I think doing it as vector (with an effect on the strokes) would generate so much overhead that the file would be unwieldy. But, best of luck with it.

The DVD map is indeed screen-accurate, but there were multiple versions of the map used in the film. The map seen during the credits is not the same map used during filming. Or, if it is, it received a right-side clock panel and had numerous details repainted or touched up.

I agree that screen caps are generally of little help, with the exception of the clock panels. So far, screen caps are the only reference for those other than an occasional photo.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.

 

[goldenage]

Re: Just what we need, another bloody Time Bandits map!

I got my copy of themap directly from you iirc Joah (quite some time ago) and again I 100% have no complaints - I recommend your design to anyone who asksabout it and will continue to do so if anyone shows interest in mine once it’s done: this is not a commercial enterprise for me (the cost will be comparatively through the roof) I’m not going to end up starting a thread in the junkyard; this is a pet project.

You are quite right about how a painted prop map printed on canvas might look and how it would weather, but something at the back of my mind makes me want a map that looks (as much as is feasible) like it might have been made by god and kicked around in a grubby filing cabinet for 4.5 billion years.

To that end rather than colour layered inkjet ink printing that can be sanded off I ‘m curious to see how much abuse I can give something actually dyed into (non-coated) cloth that is not only non-reflective but can take a fair amount of abuse - and can be stained and washed– so weathering it will be really hard work; it will need to be grimy in the grain rather than on the surface.

I’m kinda making a rod for my own back here trying to create something too durable to weather properly; and conversely I doubt I’ll be able to get anything nearly as screen accurate as the weathering the existing maps can duplicate.

And yes, the lettering is driving me bat**** insane – I’m trying not to fret about it: I figure ‘till the day we get a surprise “worldcon” version of the map show up out of the blue, best guess and approximation will suffice; if it looks like a squiggle then I make a squiggle.. science it’s not.

I’ll be putting my screengrabs up online as I get them if anyone thinks they may also go this route at some point. Not much there yet but snag it if you want it - http://www.less-than-zero.co.uk/TB/

Jo and Jh the support is appreciated - using scalable vector graphics isn’t perhaps the simplest or easiest method of doing a project like this – but it’s the one that seemed to make the most sense to me given the reference materials I have to work with and the look of theend result I hope to achieve. Trust me If I could see ANY other way to do it, I would.I'll vecort it and then tweak in PShop later.

I do have one question (so far) for you vets - if we number the clocks 1- 16 (decending) has their been any discussion about what time they are showing? F'r instance I make (3) at 11.25 or so... and four has at least one hand on the (11) to my eyes.

 

[jheilman]

Re: Just what we need, another bloody Time Bandits map!

I went through the same screencaps you are working with and I think the majority of my left-hand times are accurate. The right side is total guesswork. I'll have to wait till I get home to dig through and see.

Part of the fun of these replicas is seeing everyone's interpretations.

 

[goldenage]

Re: Just what we need, another bloody Time Bandits map!

http://www.less-than-zero.co.uk/TB/clockplacement.pdf

http://www.less-than-zero.co.uk/TB/clockplacement.pdf
This PDF will be updated with my Clock research as I get round to it. JH I have to say I like (and agree) with the way you seem distinguish each clock face with a variation in styles; looks a little more subtle to my eyes – but I’m still scrambling around getting the screenies. Thanks for the offer - I'll email you if I hit a roadbloack but it's also fun to try and piece it together - and that way you never know if your going to stumble onto something unique...



Thats said, I'm looking at what i assume is your version? How many versions of this map are their currently (that we know of?): or, since people seem to tweak, how many people have tried this recreation.

 

[Apollo]

Re: Just what we need, another bloody Time Bandits map!

The versions that i know of are, the kapow/micdavis versions, 2 of those with Terry Gilliam having a print of that,, A version that was a Private run on another board, Jheilmans, and joatrash.

God only knows how many versions are out there, :lol

 

[Treadwell]

Re: Just what we need, another bloody Time Bandits map!

There was a third kapow (writing added at top and bottom borders) that someone other than micdavis printed.

 

[goldenage]

Re: Just what we need, another bloody Time Bandits map!

It looks like you're doing all of the graphics in a vector program. Are you having an easy time doing the coloring?

Hey chris, sorry i missed your question - the answer is yes I am doing the graphics in a vector program and a huge and resounding "NO!" I'm not having an easy time. I can't decide what range of pallate to use for one thing, and I have to keep reminding myself that I'm supposed to be over saturating.

On the plus side I figure I wont be blind for a few years yet.

 

[goldenage]

Almost finished the sample to send off for the dye sublimation print test so I figured I'd play show and tell here. It may look a little "fussy" but I'm hoping once weathered this will bleed out a little. That's the theory in any case!

Comparison between the original scan (left) and my vector art (right) - criticism welcomed.

 

[goldenage]

Don't mean to turn this into a work diary, but I want to put down the things I learn about the map so that the next poor sod to bite this bullet can save a little time.

Re the "free map" giveaway with the 2004 Anchor Bay DVD - This map has shown up before: not exactly screen used as such, but it's the map in the background of the "scrapbook" menu first seen on the 1999 CriterionDVD release. (top grab in the attached pic)

This doesn't explain the inconsistencies between it and the end credits version, but it doesn't have the "mistakes" caused by scanning (marked in the big version of the grabs) - so I presume it's a static shot of the whole map, again irritatingly with no clocks visible.

Link to bigger art - http://www.less-than-zero.co.uk/zero/TBx4.jpg

 

[jheilman]

Your progress is impressive.

As to the DVD map, I still believe it to be a scan of a screen-used map. The credits sequence map differs as mentioned above. Most notably, the end credits map is the only version with clocks on both sides. I believe this map was created after filming precisely for the credits sequence.

Rumor has it that there were at least 2 hero maps. One went to Gilliam and the other to George Harrison. A mention was made years ago about someone seeing Gilliam's map in person and it was in terrible shape. The comment I recall stated that it looked as though Gilliam had used it to line a bird cage for years. So, based on that, I presume the map we see in the DVD is Harrison's copy. If that's correct, Gilliam's would have been the credits sequence map (with clocks both left and right) and Harrison's the filming map.

Of course, this house of cards can easily be toppled by further eyewitness or photographic evidence to the contrary. I'm sure there were also non-hero versions of the map made for filming use. But the DVD map has good detail and matches (I believe) the screen caps very well.

 

[goldenage]

As to the DVD map, I still believe it to be a scan of a screen-used map. ... Gilliam's would have been the credits sequence map (with clocks both left and right) and Harrison's the filming map..... But the DVD map has good detail and matches (I believe) the screen caps very well.

Sounds right to me, I've tried to go into this with an open mind, but from all the evidence available - I've come to much the same "2 maps" conclusions. What I'd like to know is if there was one painted map and a copy made/printed from it.

It's "obvious" that the people who made the 1999 DVD had access to the scan, and thought I might be able to trace back and find it's origins, but so far thats proved a dead end.

 

[jheilman]

It's said that Gilliam himself created the original map. I can believe he'd be up to it with his artistic background, but I'm surprised he would have the time during to devote to it.

I've thought that the way they may have reproduced copies quickly would be to create color separations of the original and screen print them. This was before quality scanners and large format, hi-quality computer printers.

But if they produced a copy from the original, that doesn't explain the positioning differences in many details and, most importantly, the color differences. So, it looks like they created a new map by hand with the original as a guide and made it close enough that no one in the theater could tell.

If there were better reference material available, it would be fun to recreate the "other" map with all the subtle differences. But that's just me. Glutton for punishment. :lol