ANOVOS issues (ANOVOS ONLY discussion)

[mikidymac]

A lot of people have been complaining about the Anovos suits in the various costuming groups. Basically really thin material, cracks easily, cheap all around.
$350 sounds great, until you realize you get what you pay for.

I know you hate Anovos with a passion but I don't find this statement to be true. I have 2 of the first $350 kits and 2 of the first Shadow trooper kits. It was an easy build to 501st Centurion standards. I am an ANH TK and my wife is a shadow and we have been trooping in regularly for a few years now without a single crack or issue. I have done charity walks and filming for LFL in mine and it has been more than durable and is very accurate. I know lots of other troopers have built them to Centurian standards and are really happy with them.

I will say that I don't have any love for Anovos at this point and they are overpriced at over $1k but to say they are cheap junk kits is not accurate in my opinion.

 

[Dakota]

I agree that in this rare case people are too kind but I also feel their desperation to not only get our stuff, but I believe if Anovos folds that is it for official prop replicas. It's not been that long that we have gotten official props. It was not that long ago that Icons started. Before that there was not much if anything. Illusive made stuff out of latex. Good call. Ebay Illusive Yoda. So sad to see. That was all their was.

EFX is a joke so that would be it. If Disney leaves the prop community alone to make this stuff great, but I worry that would not happen.

I understand why people want to give Anovos a chance if they would turn the ship around but they won't and they certainly do not deserve it, but it would be nice. Good for them and good for the community.

I don't believe continuing to support a company with business practices like theirs in hopes of propping up the licensed prop market is a wise decision.I also don't believe the success or failure of Anovos will determine the future of the market either.

 

[cboath]

It would also kind of substantiate Anovos' claim that canceled pre-orders caused them a lot of problems. If they were operating on a very thin margin, with the already high cost of these items, you don't need that many cancellations before things start to spiral out of control. Trouble just waiting to happen.

I've recently heard back from them about a couple things- perhaps because I've yet to join the law suit and have not yet asked for refunds on everything. Took a couple weeks though. (I am not sitting idle however... I'm keeping tabs on my options, including chargebacks because my CC seems to have a solid "fraud protection policy". I just have so much negative 'real life' stuff happening around me atm to jump deep into this too.) I do get the sense that they're trying... that they know they're on their final rope. My take is that if they survive the suit, their only chance is for their current estimates of starting to ship a lot of product before the end of the year. IF they do that, maybe they can right the ship. If not, there will be multiple 'fat ladies' singing for them.

Yeah, well, the loss of preorders far from absolves them. The cancelled preorders are exclusively their fault. If people were kept up to date and informed about what's going on, they'd be more willing to hang in there. But with no substantive updates and just (to the customers view) just arbitrarily pushing dates back with no actual explanation, you get what you get.

I do get that the lack of info isn't likely all their fault, intially they provided great feedback and updates and photos etc. They said big brother (disney) told them the could not do that anymore. Maybe they gave too much initially, but it's gone off into non-existence. It's gotten to where no one believes anything they say. They've literally not made good on a word in years.

So, yeah, there are various reasons, but ultimately it still comes back to them. Whether it's naivete', bad management, lack of info, etc.

 

[OCDChad]

I agree that in this rare case people are too kind but I also feel their desperation to not only get our stuff, but I believe if Anovos folds that is it for official prop replicas. It's not been that long that we have gotten official props. It was not that long ago that Icons started. Before that there was not much if anything. Illusive made stuff out of latex. Good call. Ebay Illusive Yoda. So sad to see. That was all their was.

EFX is a joke so that would be it. If Disney leaves the prop community alone to make this stuff great, but I worry that would not happen.

I understand why people want to give Anovos a chance if they would turn the ship around but they won't and they certainly do not deserve it, but it would be nice. Good for them and good for the community.

It seems to me they do leave it alone, and they can't go after RSProps or other people in the UK.

 

[Jamesfett]

It seems to me they do leave it alone, and they can't go after RSProps or other people in the UK.

I agree so far. Like many I thought we were doomed when Lucas sold to the mouse king but I think someone convinced them it was a bad idea. I hope it stays that way.

I don't believe continuing to support a company with business practices like theirs in hopes of propping up the licensed prop market is a wise decision.I also don't believe the success or failure of Anovos will determine the future of the market either.

I agree. I was just agreeing with others that if Anovos turned it around and got their act together many would forgive and it would not be a bad thing. Anyone buying anything from them at this point is taking an insane risk.

As far as the licensed props I really think this might be the end.

Illusive-Rubber now degrading.

Icons- Flimsy, etc.

Master Replicas- RULED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then suddenly went belly up.

EFX -Nightmare

Prop Shop- Lasted 15 minutes

and now Anovos.

I hope I am wrong but it's not looking good.

On the other hand I have lost count of how many times I thought EFX was done so what do I know.

How can someone make the EFX RMQ Vader Helmet Masterpiece, along with all the other amazing things they get made, and suck!!! at every other aspect of the business.

 

[mluder]

OK... Based on the language here, my Force Awakens Han Jacket will be shipping in the next week as I am pretty sure I did not receive notice 30 days ago of a delay.

 

[Dakota]

As far as the licensed props I really think this might be the end.

That's a tad alarmist. There are other companies out there producing products that get delivered. There will continue to be. The problem doesn't lie in the market, it lies in hobbyists trying to become business executives without understanding what they are taking on.

OK... Based on the language here, my Force Awakens Han Jacket will be shipping in the next week as I am pretty sure I did not receive notice 30 days ago of a delay.
View attachment 1028673

I have/had orders that said Wave 1: Delivery Estimate is Winter 2018 (Dec 22 - March 19th, 2019) with no notice of delays. That was 3 months ago..

 

[vader45]

At this point I hope ANOVOS gets hurt real bad from this suit. I'm at the breaking point of getting scammed! I know I got my money back but I have lost a lot of money in the past from scammers that it just boils my blood seeing this happen still. Anovos has been in this situation for over 6 years. If they wanted to fix it they would have by now. They don't care and it shows. I hope karma eats them up and spits them back out then we bann them from the prop community.

 

[Dynamic1]

That's a tad alarmist. There are other companies out there producing products that get delivered. There will continue to be. The problem doesn't lie in the market, it lies in hobbyists trying to become business executives without understanding what they are taking on.



I have/had orders that said Wave 1: Delivery Estimate is Winter 2018 (Dec 22 - March 19th, 2019) with no notice of delays. That was 3 months ago..

Yes...it’s just good old fashioned “bad business” carte blanche.

 

[USS Endeav]

I don't believe continuing to support a company with business practices like theirs in hopes of propping up the licensed prop market is a wise decision.I also don't believe the success or failure of Anovos will determine the future of the market either.

You don't think that Disney/CBS or any other IP might look at the failures of MR, EFX and should it happen, Anovos and decide it is too risky or that the market cap too small? The risk factor just went up after being named in a lawsuit along with their licensee. Granted, Disney and CBS have lawyers that will make short work of this and probably succeed in getting their clients names removed leaving just Anovos but it will leave a bad taste.

It seems to me they do leave it alone, and they can't go after RSProps or other people in the UK.

Why do you think Disney can't stop unlicensed kits in the UK?

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

You don't think that Disney/CBS or any other IP might look at the failures of MR, EFX and should it happen, Anovos and decide it is too risky or that the market cap too small? The risk factor just went up after being named in a lawsuit along with their licensee. Granted, Disney and CBS have lawyers that will make short work of this and probably succeed in getting their clients names removed leaving just Anovos but it will leave a bad taste.

The judge has ruled for ADR -- mediation with all parties. The feeling I get (and the Pawn can tell me whether I'm close or very not) is that all involved want to fix this. The suit was to hold people to account, not to punish.

Why do you think Disney can't stop unlicensed kits in the UK?

See: George Lucas v Andrew Ainsworth/Shepperton Design Studio.

 

[Jamesfett]

Let's be honest. Lucasfilm was somewhat powerful, but an ant compared to the Mouse. What the Mouse wants, the Mouse gets. We are only here because Mickey allows it.



It's very hot where I am and late so take that into consideration

 

[darthjones]

I was told by Anovos that a Kylo update is finished and should appear this week. Not that updates from mean anything (if ever they did) but someone asked if any of us have heard anything.

And I guess these updates are so very very delicate and fragile. Because, instead of sending me an update they sent me a message that the update would be out soon.

So that I could read about the product which the update says will be shipping whenver.

But now even the update itself is delayed.

 

[Dakota]

You don't think that Disney/CBS or any other IP might look at the failures of MR, EFX and should it happen, Anovos and decide it is too risky or that the market cap too small? The risk factor just went up after being named in a lawsuit along with their licensee. Granted, Disney and CBS have lawyers that will make short work of this and probably succeed in getting their clients names removed leaving just Anovos but it will leave a bad taste.




Why do you think Disney can't stop unlicensed kits in the UK?

Nah, I think in the big picture they have hundreds of licensees out there and those particular instances were peanuts compared to the revenue they bring in on overall royalties. Think of every license (Marvel, Star Wars, Princesses, etc) Disney has out there that has a for toys, drinks, stickers, notebooks, party supplies, Halloween costumes, etc. I don't see them splitting hairs over what the license is for (within their terms) so long as there is money to be made. There is obviously money to be made, 40,000+ in a single customer according to that lawsuit, so I think if free-market economics stands to reason, even if Anovos fails another one will pop up in its place to continue pulling in money.

I also don't think mega-companies like Disney have much to fear in lawsuits like these given their size, scope, and the ability for lawyers to word their license terms in such a way they indemnify them. So I don't foresee this as shaking them (Disney) too much.

Don't get me wrong, Anovos should absolutely be held accountable. But I don't think it'll be the end of the market.

 

[Dontdissthefett]

If you go onto the FISD there are years worth of posts asking about how to fix cracks. Crack are nothing new, and nothing specific to Anovos. In fact I know two guys both with RS suits that have had some very nasty cracks that have both stated they will not buy RS again because of them.

When Anovos first hit the scene with their TK everyone was up in arms because their kit was an all-in-one solution to an almost complete costume WITH an already assembled helmet. Even at the full price of $650 it was a steal. Add to that they can easily be built right up to Centurion standards, I’m not seeing where this kit is “crap” other then the same snobbish attitudes that have always been out there

 

[StevenBills]

I've had the Anovos armor for going on three years now and have had zero issues with it. None.

Their product is fine. It's their business model that stinks.

SB

 

[USS Endeav]

See: George Lucas v Andrew Ainsworth/Shepperton Design Studio.

I read about that but that situation is unique in that it is less defined because Ainsworth isn't just a fan producing them like RS is.

Nah, I think in the big picture they have hundreds of licensees out there and those particular instances were peanuts compared to the revenue they bring in on overall royalties. Think of every license (Marvel, Star Wars, Princesses, etc) Disney has out there that has a for toys, drinks, stickers, notebooks, party supplies, Halloween costumes, etc. I don't see them splitting hairs over what the license is for (within their terms) so long as there is money to be made. There is obviously money to be made, 40,000+ in a single customer according to that lawsuit, so I think if free-market economics stands to reason, even if Anovos fails another one will pop up in its place to continue pulling in money.

I also don't think mega-companies like Disney have much to fear in lawsuits like these given their size, scope, and the ability for lawyers to word their license terms in such a way they indemnify them. So I don't foresee this as shaking them (Disney) too much.

Don't get me wrong, Anovos should absolutely be held accountable. But I don't think it'll be the end of the market.

I should have clarified, I was referring to high end replica collectibles more so than the Diamond Select variety or non prop related licensed merchandise like stationary, mugs or trinkets. In the $300+ price range for licensed collectibles, the arena is much smaller.

 

[Krieger]

I have been on the white armor pages as well, just to see how things evolved - from how the FOTK would fit (last years posts), to how this serious problem will get to a conclusion. I for one, want my stuff. The only other alternative is to wear a great pumpkin t-shirt (i got a rock), and my rank pauldron and helmet for halloween.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

I read about that but that situation is unique in that it is less defined because Ainsworth isn't just a fan producing them like RS is.

Except he pretty much is (though I woudn't say "fan" so much as "opportunistic ass"). He didn't seek or get a license from LFL to sell replica Star Wars armor or helmets. He's not (contrary to his claims) using the original bucks. He destroyed those back in '77 after the job ended. He doesn't own the original sculpts and never did. They were only taken there for him to mold and cast after Elstree's vac-forming machinery broke. He made some of the armor and helmets for the first film, and none for the subsequent films. When he decided to use that slim caché (and grotesquely overstate his importance and involvement), he had neither the original sculpts, nor the forms he used back in '76 and '77, nor any leftover screen-used or otherwise first-generation pulls to work from. Everyone knowledgeable who's examined his current offerings has been able to identify which non-licensed fan vendor's pieces he's been re-casting -- not even original items purchased at auction. He's an unlicensed recaster who claims he isn't. RS is actually closer to the originals than Ainsworth, as they're often casting directly from screen-used parts.

 

[USS Endeav]

Except he pretty much is (though I woudn't say "fan" so much as "opportunistic ass"). He didn't seek or get a license from LFL to sell replica Star Wars armor or helmets. He's not (contrary to his claims) using the original bucks. He destroyed those back in '77 after the job ended. He doesn't own the original sculpts and never did. They were only taken there for him to mold and cast after Elstree's vac-forming machinery broke. He made some of the armor and helmets for the first film, and none for the subsequent films. When he decided to use that slim caché (and grotesquely overstate his importance and involvement), he had neither the original sculpts, nor the forms he used back in '76 and '77, nor any leftover screen-used or otherwise first-generation pulls to work from. Everyone knowledgeable who's examined his current offerings has been able to identify which non-licensed fan vendor's pieces he's been re-casting -- not even original items purchased at auction. He's an unlicensed recaster who claims he isn't. RS is actually closer to the originals than Ainsworth, as they're often casting directly from screen-used parts.

I wasn't addressing his credibility, the accuracy of his offerings or his level of film involvement. I am only asserting that due to his film involvement, it isn't as clearly black and white as in the case of RS and countless others. For all we know, Ainsworth could have had an agreement similar to Roddenberry where he was permitted to sell pieces. CBS sure tried to shut down Roddenberry but failed and this could be a similar matter.

I suspect if Disney went after anyone else, they'd have a much easier time having it stopped.